Anyone Tried Additive A

[docweathers]

Was just reading Zamek's book "what Every Potter Should Know". He goes on at length about the wonders of additive A. Has anyone use this stuff and with what result?

[Mark C.]

Doc I have used it in my coffee for years every morning. Its kept me spry as a cat. I cannot say enough about additive A. Makes me feel like 20 year old again .I just want to dart thru heavy traffic dodging cars and trucks on foot and climb a few trees on run down to the GNC store to pick up next jar full every few days.Some of my best fishing is from trees(see old post on tree fishing)

I thought everyone was on this stuff.After a few tablespoons you can whip out a few dozen mugs and then take out the trash while mopping the floor before breakfast.On second thought maybe its not A but hey all the white powders are about the same if you take plenty.I think the white talcs also give you a boost.

Back in Texas when we where running longhorns at the talc farm-you really had to run fast as they have huge horns and can really put the hurt on you.

Ok maybe a little to much late expresso today.

 

http://www.ceramicindustry.com/articles/90979-clay-body-additives-additive-a

[Marcia Selsor]

I have tried some additives years ago (decades). What are the commercial sources for these and is there a commercial name other than additive A.

I read Zamek's article.

 

Marcia

[docweathers]

Hi Mark

 

Maybe I should have also asked if it causes diarrhea.  But at your described velocity, that would just cause more lift on takeoff.

 

Thanks for the link, but that is essentially the article in his book.

[docweathers]

Hi Marcia

 

First time I ever heard of it. All I know about this stuff is what I read in the book.  

[glazenerd]

 

The additive is a soluble, natural polymer that imparts a higher-charge density to the particle surface of the clay. It adsorbs onto the clay platelet, causing a negative charge that allows the clay platelets to slide past each other in the clay/water structure.

Bingo- Additive A is a competitors version of V-Gum-T.

 

Nerd

 

Discussed in the SAS/Wopl/Plasticity thread.  More info:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atterberg_limits

[Marcia Selsor]

Thanks nerd.

I thought it sounded like V-gum.

Marcia

[docweathers]

In Zamek's book, he discusses them as two different entities, though, according to him, they do have some similar applications.

[glazenerd]

Doc:

 

There are some dispersing agents  and wetting agents that some potters have experimented with. Hectorite (phyllosilicate/bentone) & smecterite (Montmorillonite) are sub micron minerals (usually around 0.25 microns) that are used in V-gums, macaloid, and other plasticizers. Montmorillonite, or as we refer to them: bentonites are the most well known in the pottery biz. The key phrase used in the article is: "natural polymer":; meaning they have natural bentones that have been blended with man made materials to produce gums, suspension agents, and wetting agents.

 

Sodium silicate used in slips works because it creates negative charge on the clay platelets: and like any magnets: cause them to repel. The magnets repelling is what we call the thinning of slip. Plasticizers, rather man made or natural; also cause a negative charge on the clay platelets, but not as strong. As Zameck points out; it causes the platelets to slide past each other. Unlike sodium silicate with a short term reaction life, plasticizers reach their full effect after a period of time passes. The reason throwers like aged clay.

 

So it would be a safe assumption that they have similar properties because they start with natural plasticizers; and additive A has most likely been chemically compounded to increase that effect.

 

Nerd

 

Minerals have electropostive/negative charges (Pauling scale): although measured in Ev (electron volts), band gaps, and valence: just look at it as molecular currents. Minerals that are electronegative are used to alter the electropositive Ev found in clays.

 

You owe me $5 for making yet another boring post.

[glazenerd]

Might as well bore people to death.. hey I enjoy it!!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronegativity#Pauling_electronegativity

Scroll down to the scale arranged according to the periodic table. Na (sodium) is on the left, and alumina (AL) and silica (Si) on the right: you can see the differing values. That is the simple explanation: the more complex is ionization energies. When you look at the ionization energy of sodium; then it really becomes apparent why it effects clay the way it does. All clay are alumino/silicates. Somewhere in the process of additive A, the makers are using electrolysis to alter the Ev charge. (I suspect)

 

Nerd

[docweathers]

I get the idea of how this stuff works and  what it  is supposed to do, but has anyone actually given it a shot and found it useful In clay or glazes?

 

Having seen many theories that don't actually predict, I like empirical verification.

 

 

I will get that five dollars to you via Santa next year.

[Mark C.]

Doc if it helps I have used v-gum in high temp kiln coatings that I sprayed onto fiber-brick etc.

Since your are sending out Santa dollars maybe you will go in with me on a Texas talc farm-we could be raking up the grey stuff all day long. I saw a small spread in a movie caller (Giant)-by now I bet the oil is gone and the place is almost free.Since everything is bigger in Texas your $5 might be worth $500.

If you want a taste of this lifestyle just tie some longhorns onto the hood of your car and drive around with them for few weeks to get a feel of Texas.

Every time someone asks just yell YAHOoooooooo.

[bciskepottery]

http://www.potters.org/subject15435.htm

 

http://www.biokeram.com/Application-areas/Refractory/Additive-A

 

Seems to be used more often in brick production and extruded work . . . likely commercial extrusions of tiles, pipes, etc.

[Magnolia Mud Research]

Being an organic material that lowers the surface tension of water used in a clay body formulation in addition to having some deflocculation characteristics, its use could be attractive simply because it does not add additional metallic oxides, as does bentonite and/or veegum, so a clay body can be developed for the fired composition and that composition does not change with addition or non-addition of the additive.  That could be attractive to some potters.

 

A brief online search indicates at least one pottery supplier (MA based) makes it available to their customers.

 

LT

[glazenerd]

Doc:

 

I have used V-gum T, Macaloid, and hectorite. I prefer macaloid, although hectorite does about as good. V Gum is a horse of a different color: it has to be blunged before adding to a clay body. Ron Roy posted a question on Clay Art thread for me over six months ago; still no responses. So you will have a tough time finding empirical evidence. V-Gum is the best in my opinion, but it also requires an extra step and more dollars. Only porcelain bodies need a plasticizer anyway, I have yet to see a stoneware recipe that uses it. Porcelain is usually side stepped by the addition of plastic vitrox, and a high SAS.WOPL kaolinitic ball clay.

 

Nerd

[docweathers]

Where did you get your PhD in chemistry?

[glazenerd]

Yeah LT.. where did you get your Phd?

[Magnolia Mud Research]

What's pH d? 

Ik ben en ingenieur!

[glazenerd]

and I gradumakated frum huked on foniks.

[neilestrick]

I used to use a porcelain recipe (attributed to Victor Babu) that used VeeGumT. Great stuff, added wonderful plasticity. But even at only 2% it made up about 20% of the price of the clay. VGT is also great in brushing glaze formulas when used in combination with CMC Gum. When I worked at A.R.T. Clay that's how we made all of our brushing glazes.

[glazenerd]

 

VGT is also great in brushing glaze formulas....................indeed Neil !!  like brushing on thick latex paint.  I like even better for stains; keeps them suspended-dispersed.

Nerd

[glazenerd]

Okay Doc:  after much study and research: I will answer your question. 

 

Additive A is an ionic polymer that creates isomorphous substitution, when mixed with a clay body. Additive A would be much more useful in a porcelain body, and have a negative effect in stoneware because ball clay already has a negative ionic polarity. Kaolin is unable to absorb water into its platelet: while ball clay/s will. Secondly, kaolin has a neutral charge on the surface of its platelet, and ball clay has a negative charge. Because kaolin cannot draw water on a molecular level (except halloysite), a negative platelet charge can only be produced by isomorphous substitution.

 

Isomorphous substitution is defined (in clay chemistry) as using chemical manipulation/substitution of negatively charged molecules, to "substitute" positively charged ions. VeeGum T works on the same principle, although it is produced from refined naturally occurring smectite/s. Additive A is a synthetic polymer that accomplished the same goal: in that it changes the positive/neutral charge on the surface of the clay platelet to a negative charge. A negative charge (see CEC "cation exchange capabilities) is solely responsible for creating plasticity in a clay body. When clay particles are negatively charged: they repel each other: causing the effect of plasticity. When clay particles are positively charged they attract each other: causing the effect of memory in clay.

 

For this and other useless information you can contact me via email.

 

Nerd

 

Edit note: the percentages of metal oxides in clay effect the final particle charge. Alumina, iron, and magnesium cause differentials in particle charges because of their metallic ions. Kaolin has much higher percentages of alumina: which is the primarily reason kaolin have a neutral particle charge. Ball clay has much less, so the interlayers of its structure hold a negative charge,

[CactusPots]

So after Min mentioned Additive A in the post on pugmills, I found this post.   No one actually responded positively to the original question here.  Since the post is 3 years old, maybe that has changed.  I can't find any pottery dealer listing Additive A.  I think Laguna and Bailey are the biggest.    It seems to be an industry ingredient that did not make it's way into our food supply.  Internet search turned it up all right.  $75 for 50lb bag.  Not what I had in mind.

It does seem to me like it would be useful in recycling clay.  I find the stoneware I use is definitely short if I don't pug wet and age.

[Hulk]

Nerd's reclaim fix mix more than makes up for minimal shortness in my reclaimed stoneware (I'm using a very small amount).

https://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/topic/19047-reclaimed-clay

 

Additive A  - note: Lignotech has offices in Houston and Wisconsin; try Wisconsin (hurricane)

https://www.biokeram.com/Application-areas/structural/Additive-A

[CactusPots]

Nerd's assumption seems to be that the fines are missing from the recycle.  That can't be the case for me.  Most of my recycle is trimming due to my throwing an extra thick bottom and trimming the feet in.  That part of the clay is hardly touched.   I guess there isn't much call for this product if it's not available from our regular suppliers.  Industrial supply usually means industrial quantities.  I am fascinated by contemporary industrial ceramic magic.  I wish more of it was readily available.