Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
glazenerd

Pulling Walls

Recommended Posts

...no no no, far too prescious :)

 

I can tell by feel where they're thick or thin. However my challenge is pulling the thickness at the bottom to the top.

It's a strength thing, and my hands cramp up if I throw more than 2 or 3 of these.

I trim these little if no at all. Suffice to say, they have heavier bottoms than is desired.

Hey, they make great door stops!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

rex, do you wire through the cylinder to check even thickness or is it too precious to lose that beautifully straight cylinder?

Ha, I think you are being funny, but... there is that perfect straight cylinder you worked so hard to make and then there needs to be this leap of faith diving in and going for another form, sometimes it works and sometimes it don't, but that round even canvas sure looks good spinning evenly there on that old wheel. Almost every time I throw I have to go through that struggle...;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have the same problem looking at the perfectly symmetrical half sphere when i trim a bowl.  isn't it perfect?  isn't it beautiful?  how can i finish it so it is still perfect?  where should the footring go?  how should i glaze it?  what color should i use?  ................

 

i think it is the unlimited variety of answers that keeps us coming back every day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...yes! I made a few of these just for that reason, as blank canvases for my next saggar.

The discipline of setting down and throwing cylinders is just that, discipline, especially for me.

I can't keep a beat with either foot...

First assignment in my Pottery 1 class was throw 10 exact cylinders.

So I do it once in a while.

 

Ofcourse because I can't keep a beat, and evidently have  no discipline, I wander...

 

same session >>>

 

IMG_6799-XL.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1515:

 

Been listening and watching carefully: my main problem is when I feel the clay begin to move of shift when I am pulling: I freeze. Use to throwing bags of cement and bundles of shingles around, afraid I will "hurt" the clay. The other problem, I am trying to pull too much clay up in one pull. Need to slow the wheel down as well. Was also trying to do some forming as I was pulling. Lastly, I need a different stool; I am 6-8" higher above the clay that what is comfortable for me, I feel jambed and drawn up sitting there. 

 

Still trying to justify flying out to Portland for NCECA in 2017. If so, perhaps we will bump into each other. I am offering a $100 reward to the person who shaves Fred Sweet clean........  wonder if they will put that on the NCECA calendar of events? 

 

Rex:  inspirational pics: I will get there... someday. So, its off to the Back Stoppers fund raiser for me. 

 

Nerd

 

Edit: by the way Rex: my bottoms are way too heavy as well.

Edit 2: need to get some of the sponges Marica has in her pics. Also need some very short and very long ribs. Need a couple of stainless steel ribs as well. Couple of small loop trimming tools. Finding in some cases my tools do not fit the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The height of 2 2x4s (aka 3") is the right height to make a stand for you left leg to match the pedal height. This will help your back.

 

I find most people like having the wheel 1.5" or 3" higher than the wheels allow. So more blocks of wood.

 

My students and I all are sitting on stools that had the legs cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Throwing for me is similar to a well tuned clock. As the wheel goes around, my hands move up a notch, the rhythm of hands and wheel equal. The motion of the hands going upward is always slightly leaning in towards center, the thumbs in the beginning locked to help judge depth and clay thickness. I begin with the basic donut, and use the lift of the outside fingers pushing harder than the inside on the first pull. Each pull starts off strong weakening as the wall and hands go up. This helps me to get the mass of the clay out of the base into the side walls. I always try to remember when starting what I am making, whether it is a bowl, plate or cylinder as each opening up and pulling is different to some degree-plate most different. I also remember to match the clay to the object-stiffest clay for cylinders, then bowls, and then plates being the least stiff. Working from a measured weight in the beginning and writing down that weight and the object and size in the beginning will help you become more perceptive of your progress, and set up a diary of sizes to start with when throwing specific objects. Measure what they will hold so that you know what a mug of 1# will hold, or a bowl of 3# etc. 

 

And always keep practicing and working to improve and throwing out those things that do not meet your expectations.

 

best,

Pres

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matthew... good idea.. TY

 

Mark- the concept is equilibrium. Equal pressure, equal movement, equal speeds. Just have to get my hands and brain to stop thinking I am sawing lumber.

 

 

Pres said.... the thumbs in the beginning locked to help judge depth and clay thickness.

Pres. can you elaborate on this? Some reason it is going over my head.

 

Nerd

 

Raised almost $2000 for Back Stoppers tonight...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the motorcycle cops in our city was telling me this story years ago...he was stopped at the side of the road working a minor traffic accident when another motorist pulled up alongside where he was standing, the citizen in the car rolled down his drivers side window and said, officer, excuse me could you please tell me how to get to the University of Santa Clara? My friend told him without missing a beat...study, study, study.

 

Throwing is the same way, you need to feel it over and over...keep going and I know you will get where you want to be, it takes lots of practice and pushing your limits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just pull a few hundred cylinders and you will be on you way of being a pro at throwing.

 

Well well, only 280 more to go.

Mixed up 80lbs of custom porcelain, mixing a 100lbs of custom stoneware today: should get me another 50-60 cylinders.

 

Throwing is the same way, you need to feel it over and over.

I get this actually: have felt hard bits go by, as well as felt air pockets. Can feel the weight shifting prior to go out of round, as well as can feel thickness differences.

 

Nerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're feeling hard bits then it's not mixed well enough. If you're feeling air bubbles then it's not wedged well enough.

 

Turn your brain off and just throw. It's all about repetition, just like playing an instrument. How many times do you have to play through a song before you can play it fluidly, up to tempo, by memory?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If you're feeling hard bits then it's not mixed well enough. If you're feeling air bubbles then it's not wedged well enough.

I have several piles I have thrown, sprinkle some molochite on them, wedge, throw again. repeat-repeat-repeat >My scrap pratice piles.

 

Nerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be aware that as you recycle the same clay over and over the formula of that clay is changing. The finest particles are washing away with your throwing water, the molochite is increasing. Eventually you've got a different clay body. I used to see this all the time when I was a tech for A.R.T. clay. Customers (schools) would call and say their glazes were shivering off their low fire clay. Turns out they were recycling over and over, and just adding ball clay to stiffen it up each time. After a few rounds they had altered the body enough that it no longer worked, and had to throw out all their clay and start over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be aware that as you recycle the same clay over and over the formula of that clay is changing. The finest particles are washing away with your throwing water,....

 

the answer is to NOT throw away the water with the baby particles in it.  Let the water evaporate and add it back to the recycle clay along with the dry ingredients.

 

  lt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah fellars-- think I might know a few things about clay bodies. How about the 2- 5 gallon buckets I keep: one for porcelain slop and one for stoneware. Just grind it up and throw it into the next batches I make: with a touch more fines, a splash of Nerds blend of 11 secret spices... etc.

 

Nerd

 

Babs- threw taller cylinders this afternoon with ribs. After 42 years I am accustomed to having tools in my hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nerd i second babs.

 

i've been watching a lot of cultural throwing video (yup youtube - dont have other access anywhere else). including masters at it. most of them have very few tools. 

 

so i've challenged myself. minimum of tools.  very basic tool set. that means initially working harder and  more failures. but it also means you get a feel for it much faster. and i also use the tool set i naturally have. my nails. i use them a lot esp. while trimming. 

 

open and fix the bottom. do the bottom first before pulling so you never have to touch the bottom again. in any form. except to sponge up the water there. 

 

with the shaping of cylinders much against what i thought was the right way was - shape the top 1/3 - take care of that first before shaping the bottom 2/3 and THEN move up and turn the into whatever you want. i see you have already made a nice vase/candlestand so this might be moot point. 

 

did u imply that the porcelain stoneware mix helped you? the grog definitely helped me. no way could i throw without grog. once i get the confidence i'll be able to do it. 

 

for me throwing has been more about giving up fear than actually throwing. i am still working on that. i am also trying not to be too intense. i do set up a goal for the day, but sometimes i get tunnel vision and its time to go do some glazing. if i can come to the wheel thinking about something that has touched me i throw better than if i come in thinking today i am going to do it!!! sure set up for failure. or even if i come in with whatever attitude i throw better pots. 

 

i first learnt to shape bowls using ribs while watching this video (surprising how many people dont focus on how much work goes on the side). it was a frustrating time for me initially because i was throwing all forms of V bowls when i desperately wanted U bowls. now i am trying to figure out wide, shallow bowls. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah fellars-- think I might know a few things about clay bodies. How about the 2- 5 gallon buckets I keep: one for porcelain slop and one for stoneware. Just grind it up and throw it into the next batches I make: with a touch more fines, a splash of Nerds blend of 11 secret spices... etc.

 

Nerd

 

Babs- threw taller cylinders this afternoon with ribs. After 42 years I am accustomed to having tools in my hands.

Nothing to do with experience with tools here it is the sensitivity you will develop and muscle memory in fingers, feel of hte clay etc. I could write many a fine analogy here.

may even have some thing to do with aligning of clay particles, but you're the expert there.

Ask J Baymore for his throwing lessons, I'm sure he'll pm them to you.

Search for Neil Estrick 12" cylinder with 3 lbs of clay and you will see the mastery of clay at work...

Some great youtube on this too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Just pull a few hundred cylinders and you will be on you way of being a pro at throwing.

 

Well well, only 280 more to go.

Mixed up 80lbs of custom porcelain, mixing a 100lbs of custom stoneware today: should get me another 50-60 cylinders.

 

Throwing is the same way, you need to feel it over and over.

I get this actually: have felt hard bits go by, as well as felt air pockets. Can feel the weight shifting prior to go out of round, as well as can feel thickness differences.

 

Nerd.. . . After your first pull, on the pulls where  you can, place your rt and left thumbs together right hand outside, left inside. While pulling use this positioning of the thumbs to help you gauge where your hands are on the inside and outside of the pot. Remember that your right, outside hand, with the fingers touching the wheel head will be a little below the left inside hand. So as you move your hands up in pulling if the thumbs stay together in the same position, your fingers will do the same when making the pull.

 

Another trick to try. . . I have mentioned it before here. . . Blindfold yourself, or throw in the dark from beginning to end. this forces you to rely on  your sense of touch not sight. It can lead to some revelations about centering, throwing, wheel speed, and feel for shaping. 

 

 

best of luck,

Pres

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

did u imply that the porcelain stoneware mix helped you?

Preeta: I custom mix my own porcelain and stoneware clay bodies. I did however buy a couple of very cheap commercial bodies just to practice with. I keep all the trimmings, and slime in separate buckets: along with the bottom third of my throwing water. It all goes back into new batches: I just add an extra touch of fines and feldspar to replace what was lost.

 

the sensitivity you will develop and muscle memory in fingers, feel of hte clay etc

Babs... now I got what you were trying to convey.. TY

 

 

Blindfold yourself,

Pres... actually I spent several days centering with my eyes closed: that helped me more than anything I must confess. I will try that with cylinders shortly.. TY.

 

Nerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My students got the assignment to throw ten 10" cylinders with2 lbs of clay and slice them open. This was a practice exercise. They'd figure out how to get height. After that, forming shapes was next. I always told them. To get the height first, then start forming. Cylinders are the key to throwing anything in my opinion. Don't over think it. Pull up and keep the throwing lines VERY horizontal. If they are at above a 30 degree incline, your fingers are pulling up too fast. Use less water.too. You can go higher dryer.http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/gallery/image/7573-meandbigpots/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.