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oldlady

What Happened To The Guy Who Wanted................

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sometimes 15 pieces of advice from lots of us go toward some new member who asks a question and needs an answer right away.  we are always glad to be of help, but we never hear what the final results are for that member.  (who probably never posts again)

 

does anyone else wonder what happened to the lady who had to immediately produce a bunch of plates (without throwing them) for a wedding?

 

there are lots more examples.  anyone remember one we never heard from after all?  do we scare them off?  are we only one place they sought advice?  do i expect too much?

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I think the internet has produced a class of folks who feel they are entitled to extensive attention from an assembly of knowlegeable people just because they 'discovered' a Forum ..... have the same phenomenon on a website devoted to old motorcycles that I help moderate .....

 

Gord

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I also wonder about this Oldlady wondering about any follow thru-seems not many ever follow thru. The give it to me now internet generation ?

Over the years here I have had a few call me and talk story for long periods and never post again.

I usually send them a e-mail a few years later asking whats up. Most often their crisis was long gone and they are not into whatever anymore

I chalk this all up to me being an unpaid consultant.

On a more positive note one of the reasons I initially came here was to ask about any other potters who had a PRC wrist surgery and at least once a year someone will call me about that post as a google hit and they are considering this procedure . This always ends in a long 1/2 hour or more talk about the surgery and recovery etc and for me is always a great thing to help someone understand whats involved (this surgery is not well explained on the net at all)

I had one of those calls last Friday. At least I know I'm actually helping someone on this subject.

Now back to can I make plates from bread dough and fire them in my microwave-help NOW its anyones guess what happens after we try to help.

 

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Good point, Old Lady.  I have tried over the years to follow up after questions.  I soooo appreciated the help I got with reattaching a little sprig to a bisqued piece.  I think I posted  a picture??? :wacko:  I actually referred back to a thread about patching firebrick that I had started myself last year, when I had to do the same thing again in November.  But no, I don't think I posted results.  BTW? that IFB patch stuff worked great.  However I did order a couple of new firebricks to have on hand, Just In Case. 

 

When life gets realllllly hectic, I stay off the computer because I get pretty sucked in at times.  I also have a serious case of CRS at times and forget to post results.  But yes, all of you who have years and years of ceramic experience have to know that you have guided my ceramic progress and I appreciate your time and willingness to share your knowledge.  Thank you and I will do better!!!

 

Roberta

p.s.  I am going to NCECA and will buy you a beverage if you will be there???

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Just human nature ... both things ... Forgetting to reply and curiosity about what happened.

At least once a month I get an email problem that I never hear back from ... Some are so intriguing that I really, really want to get the rest of the story ... But seldom do.

The best was the grad student who slip cast a VW bus so he could make an exact replica for his thesis ... Unfortunately forgot about clay shrinkage. I really want to see that bus even if it is 15% smaller!

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I generally assume, that if we don't hear much back, after all the replies, the poster has moved on (Either to another forum to try and get the answer they were hoping, or just giving up on the endeavor because it was waaaay more work than they thought).

 

I came here to discuss the building of a Raku kiln, and have continued to learn so much beyond that.  

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Lady:

 

It is their loss!. I have been here a mere few weeks and knew the first day that this is an incredible resource tool. Even if some of the questions do not have a specific answer; they at least get pointed in a direction to look. I do not get involved with many of the topics because my knowledge and experience is limited to two specialty glazes. I have knowledge about most of the glazes; but studying from a book and firing them is two different experiences. So I get to sit in the bleachers and watch the game: popcorn anyone?

 

Nerd

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I can somewhat echo Nerd's comments. I've only been here a brief time but I've learned so much from pouring over the posts. As a complete newbie to clay, what everyone has generously shared has been incredibly helpful. I only hope that once I have some knowledge and something to ADD to a conversation, that some will find it worthwhile! :)

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Hate to sound like " back in the old days we walked uphill all day, both ways ...."

But

Before this forum it was incredibly hard to find answers to even the simplest questions ... I am sure I am not alone in having done things the wrong way again and again while trying to find out who knew another way.

 

There were others forums ... but either you got flamed for asking too basic a question or nobody there knew the answer either.

 

So I enjoy this forum because even the simplest question can get you thinking when someone answers it from a new point of view.

People from other countries definitely make you aware of other options and pull you out of linear thinking.

Love the ones that challenge accepted norms ... Like does a mug need a handle? As with everything else in pottery ... it all depends ...

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As a new potter I value all the advice I'm getting. Some I'll follow up with pics and updates. Haven't had any to tell yet.  I've only been posting recently and all my posts have had such great advice and I've had a lot of encouragement along the way. So to sum it up - I love this forum and avidly check it each day to see what new posts there are.  Learning never stops....

 

My thanks go out to all of you for your time  :)

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Google, Bing, Yahoo!, etc. make it easy to ask a question (enter a query) via a search engine and this forum pops up in the results more that I ever imagined.  From my experience with a personal blog, we have tons of lurkers (folks who read but never post).  Some may feel intimidated by the conversation and simply don't feel comfortable adding their opinions.  Some of the people @oldlady identified are just needing help (probably urgently), get their answers, and move on their merry way, completely missing out on the incredible value of the community here (or the concept that we'd actually like to know what happened?). That is their loss.

 

On another note...the international composition of this forum is a quality I absolutely admire.  We have people stopping by whose grasp of English is on the same level of my grasp of Greek or Chinese (near zero).  I want us all to be aware of this when a question appears that may be flawed with grammar/spelling errors...chances are there is a passionate clay person on the other end of that question and I'd like to include them into the family whenever possible/practical.

 

ΕιÏήνη

和平

Peace,

-Paul

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The thing that bothers me is they ask a question and never reply to if it worked or not. When someone else comes along and wants to know the same question they google it find that thread read all the replies hoping this is it! Then they get to the end and see it hasn't been answered by the original poster if it was working or not. Thus the cycle begins again. Rather frustrating how many times I have looked up stuff to find tons of good answers and the OP never replies thank you or if it worked or anything. I think that is the greatest downfall for future people. 

 

Either way this resource is like no other, and I read and post on many other ceramic boards and reddits.

 

One of the first things I do before taking on a task I have never done before is look up if there is an active forum or reddit about it somewhere. If there is then I feel much more comfortable taking on something new, because I can ask good solid questions and get a variety of replies to sift through and research. It helps a ton.

 

I was reading the thread yesterday about sharing recipes and John had a good post about how we are this weird group that shares recipes, and how to build things and all sorts of other interesting things that most companies would never share let alone even hint at. But it all comes down to "it depends" on your kiln, firing schedule, clay body, materials. In the long run even the same exact recipe hardly comes out looking the same without some tweaking. It is pretty amazing.

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thanks paul, for mentioning the international nature of this group.  some people might think i go into more detail than needed when i answer a question.  i know that to them it is unnecessary but to the folks from other countries, other languages, it is important to say it all.  

 

language is difficult even if it is your own, i have great admiration for people who can speak or write more than one.  

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As one of those posters who on occasion disappears I am not even surprised, in the slightest, that posts in this thread don't even consider ANY possibility other than:

 

1. Visitors asking questions are too rude to share their results,

2. Visitors, can't take the heat of honest critique,

3. Visitors can't communicate well,

4, Visitors are intimidated by our brilliance,

 

I've gotten some fantastic help from folks like Mark C. But, you should see some of the private message traffic I've received. Condescending and arrogant doesn't even begin to describe it. I am VERY cautious of what, where, and how I post as a result.

 

My point in saying this is this, if you're going to critique your forum, don't start by criticizing your customer. Start by looking in the mirror. It's not their fault their leaving and not coming back--it's ours. If you want their behavior to change, change your behavior.

 

We recently had our customers getting upset about not hearing about their order status. We shifted our basic customer base from the military to law enforcement. This new segment behaved very differently. They call ALL THE TIME, it was driving us bonkers.

 

Everyone was saying they were 'nuts' and 'paranoid'. No, they were different, so, we had to change. So after each step in our process, throwing, handling, sprigging, bisque, glaze, and shipping we send a short update email. All the calls stopped. Five star reviews returned.

 

You have to ask yourselves "Do you want them to participate?" If so, then something MUST change. If not, do nothing.

 

If nothing changes... Nothing changes!

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It's a two way street really as is all communication.

Just saying, I've been a member for a couple of years now, have received no arrogant nasty pms, my tuppence worth of thought mainly from observation, and experience, but no tertiary studies in this field, seems to be tolerated by people, or if ill advised thoughts by me, corrected by others.

So the poster and the people giving thought, time and expertise freely sometimes have to change the perspective and read in a non reactive state.

No one is out to get the poster, often the further questions are to clarify the question.

Posts can be answered by the experts or others, as the advice is free, the poster can take it or skim over the irrelevant.

I feel Old Lady's post here is because we alll think about the questions asked, take time to answer and then the vacuum that follows sometimes is a bit like getting a book taken away just as you turn the last page...

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It's a two way street really as is all communication.

Just saying, I've been a member for a couple of years now, have received no arrogant nasty pms, my tuppence worth of thought mainly from observation, and experience, but no tertiary studies in this field, seems to be tolerated by people, or if ill advised thoughts by me, corrected by others.

So the poster and the people giving thought, time and expertise freely sometimes have to change the perspective and read in a non reactive state.

No one is out to get the poster, often the further questions are to clarify the question.

Posts can be answered by the experts or others, as the advice is free, the poster can take it or skim over the irrelevant.

I feel Old Lady's post here is because we alll think about the questions asked, take time to answer and then the vacuum that follows sometimes is a bit like getting a book taken away just as you turn the last page...

This is my point: true hospitality is not a "two way street", it's a one way street-an attitude exhibited by the host or hostess that makes the visitor feel welcomed and accepted.

 

I posted a year ago seeking help for a productivity issue, I was asked to post a photo of the pot that we were making, so I did along with detailed assembly instructions used by our potters. I got slammed for the amount of clay I use to make my pots, the wavy side walls of the one pot I posted in a photo, and hammered because I didn't know how to throw, and was told to go slip cast. People were talking out their koondingies about stuff they knew nothing about. We had good reasons for doing things a certain way, but it defied clay-wisdom, so "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" This was in open forums.

 

It got so bad within 24 hours I took down the photos. The PMS traffic was worse. I took the posts to industry consultants who laughed at them, and pointed me to my competitors who are doing exactly what I wanted to accomplish.

 

I haven't solved all of my challenges yet, but' I've seen video of a single person attaching up to 1,000 handles a day, and of throwers with yields of 200 cylinders a day. Things I was told would ruin the art form and turn Potter's into "slaves". And, the people were happy!

 

I've been here for a few years too. I've seen kids come who fell in love with clay and wanted to set up a table at their local farmers market, and the wolf pack comes out. Your work isn't good enough-go to school for 10 years. "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" And, they aren't nice about it either. They don't encourage they discourage. If I were that kid, I wouldn't come back either.

 

Why do you give your time freely here? Before you answer that think about the original question... "What ever happened to...?" It's about them, not us! It's easy to deconstruct my argument-oh it's just Mike, not my experience. Just one PMS, never happened to me. Never seen it, so it never happened. But, then why this thread?

 

OldLady even says in her original post, "...there are lots of examples..."--I agree! She also asks, "Do we scare them off?" I'm suggesting we give this question careful and prayerful consideration. Don't dismiss it so easily. Think it over as individuals, how can each of us be a better host or hostess? Maybe we could send an encouraging PM to newbies inviting them to return, or like their first post, or let them know they can message you with questions. Or just tell them you're looking forward to seeing their gallery go up.

 

Relationships don't form when two people sit across the dance hall waiting for the other to get up and ask them to dance. And, they won't form if we take on a holier than thou attitude either-I already have a relationship with God, thank you very much!

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It's just human nature ... or current human nature ... go the the faceless Internet for an answer.

Does anyone thank the people at Wikipedia? Write them to say thanks for taking the time to write that article? I think it is just the nature of the times to grab the answer and go. Perhaps by the third or fourth answer they decide to hang around and see what else we have to offer. We are all very used to finding the answer on the net, but perhaps not into being used this way.

 

Sometimes, we are not so great at answering ... make assumptions about the skill level of those asking. I liked the guy who strongly said ... Don't bug me with warnings I know what I'm doing ... Just help me with this issue. He laid it out fair and square but as I recall still got the warnings he did not need. I think the fact that the first post always shows up as "newbie" prejudices our perspective ... New to us but perhaps not to clay.

 

I suppose we could get some type of system for reporting snarky PMs to the moderators. I did not know people were using this back door to express negativity ... a thing we have been working hard to keep out of this public forum.

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It's a two way street really as is all communication.

Just saying, I've been a member for a couple of years now, have received no arrogant nasty pms, my tuppence worth of thought mainly from observation, and experience, but no tertiary studies in this field, seems to be tolerated by people, or if ill advised thoughts by me, corrected by others.

So the poster and the people giving thought, time and expertise freely sometimes have to change the perspective and read in a non reactive state.

No one is out to get the poster, often the further questions are to clarify the question.

Posts can be answered by the experts or others, as the advice is free, the poster can take it or skim over the irrelevant.

I feel Old Lady's post here is because we alll think about the questions asked, take time to answer and then the vacuum that follows sometimes is a bit like getting a book taken away just as you turn the last page...

This is my point: true hospitality is not a "two way street", it's a one way street-an attitude exhibited by the host or hostess that makes the visitor feel welcomed and accepted.

 

I posted a year ago seeking help for a productivity issue, I was asked to post a photo of the pot that we were making, so I did along with detailed assembly instructions used by our potters. I got slammed for the amount of clay I use to make my pots, the wavy side walls of the one pot I posted in a photo, and hammered because I didn't know how to throw, and was told to go slip cast. People were talking out their koondingies about stuff they knew nothing about. We had good reasons for doing things a certain way, but it defied clay-wisdom, so "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" This was in open forums.

 

It got so bad within 24 hours I took down the photos. The PMS traffic was worse. I took the posts to industry consultants who laughed at them, and pointed me to my competitors who are doing exactly what I wanted to accomplish.

 

I haven't solved all of my challenges yet, but' I've seen video of a single person attaching up to 1,000 handles a day, and of throwers with yields of 200 cylinders a day. Things I was told would ruin the art form and turn Potter's into "slaves". And, the people were happy!

 

I've been here for a few years too. I've seen kids come who fell in love with clay and wanted to set up a table at their local farmers market, and the wolf pack comes out. Your work isn't good enough-go to school for 10 years. "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" And, they aren't nice about it either. They don't encourage they discourage. If I were that kid, I wouldn't come back either.

 

Why do you give your time freely here? Before you answer that think about the original question... "What ever happened to...?" It's about them, not us! It's easy to deconstruct my argument-oh it's just Mike, not my experience. Just one PMS, never happened to me. Never seen it, so it never happened. But, then why this thread?

 

OldLady even says in her original post, "...there are lots of examples..."--I agree! She also asks, "Do we scare them off?" I'm suggesting we give this question careful and prayerful consideration. Don't dismiss it so easily. Think it over as individuals, how can each of us be a better host or hostess? Maybe we could send an encouraging PM to newbies inviting them to return, or like their first post, or let them know they can message you with questions. Or just tell them you're looking forward to seeing their gallery go up.

 

Relationships don't form when two people sit across the dance hall waiting for the other to get up and ask them to dance. And, they won't form if we take on a holier than thou attitude either-I already have a relationship with God, thank you very much!

 

 

Mike, well I see the points you are making, but I do not think about "them and us" on this forum, just a bunch of people who are willing to trouble shoot the problems posted here.

Personlaities rear their heads but as I stated, irrelevant posts and comments can be ignored.

I feel this is a supportive bunch of people, often comments made are not the ones you seek for sure, as an old lady, I tend to quickly sieve out the "I" drivel and cut to the information on the plate.

Obnoxious guests, well I don't extend a welcome, and have been known to ask theOG to leave, not selling any thing here so cannot be compared to my smiley face at the market stall. Even then, fish don't bite, the reactive person tends to drift away.

If you can't be anything else be kind.

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mike, you are correct that we should welcome new people.  

 

babs, as a reader of many, many mystery books i can relate to that last page comment.  you got it.

 

(does anyone else read the dates posted?)    it is sometimes funny to see an answer come in years after the question.  

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I remember that thread you started, Mike,  and honestly, I think "slammed" and "hammered" are a bit strong when describing the responses.  Can't speak to the PM's obviously.  People sending negative PM's to a poster who is just looking for some help really upsets me.  I'm so disappointed that folks on this forum would do that.  Anyone who has spent any amount of time reading internet comments knows that this forum is comparatively mild and kind, but even PM is unacceptable in my mind.  Anonymity seems to give some people a license to be rude.  That's one of the reasons I use my real name.  If I'd be ashamed for someone to know I said it, I won't say it.

 

I, too, thought the picture you posted was a bit odd, but figured there was something about this I didn't know.  As it turns out, I was right.  Maybe you should have included an explanation as to why you were doing what you were doing.

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I find it unfortunate, that anyone would feel attacked on these boards.  I find this board to be very civil, when it comes to poster interaction, especially compared to the rest of the internet message boards.

The fact that people use the private message features to attack someone else, is disgusting.  I've never had any issues with private message, as all such messages are positive discussions.  

 

I have seen message board discussions get a little heated.  It's to be expected.  We are all individuals and have our own views/ experiences.  The problem arises, when we refuse to alter those views, when presented with contrary information.  

I know, when I came on these boards, I had views that have since changed, because I've had discussion that have shown me I was misinformed.  

 

In regards to the people, who pose questions, and then are never heard from again.  I honestly haven't seen any of said posters attacked by posters here.  They generally receive several good bits of advice.  

As I said earlier, I think some posters don't like the answers, and look elsewhere for responses that reinforce their own ideas.

 

And some, like Chris mentioned, are using the site like a Wikipedia.  They get there answer, and move on.  I'm not a fan of that approach, but it also doesn't reflect poorly on the other posters here.  

 

Regardless, I will continue to believe this site is a great resource, full of great posters.  That's why I continue to come here.

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It's probably a lot easier to answer why we are here on this forum. We have active members from all walks of life and all levels of experience. I love to hear everyone's input who feel the impulse to answer. Some of the best answers come from outside the box. We have a constructive, intelligent, mature, conversations that I haven't had since art school and the forum moderators do an excellent job keeping things focused on the aforementioned. My best friend was an artist and engineer and he past away when he was in his 20's; I miss the intelligent ideas and constructive criticism. Having the ability to talk to people with similar interests from around the world is absolutely priceless.

 

I would think that many of the people who do not return do so because the learning curve is steep and the failure rate is higher than many of the other arts. Ceramics sounds like a great hobby until someone really scrapes the surface. To me ceramics are unappreciated in many corners of the art world and far more complicated than art world gives credit. If your a person who can't handle failure then a ceramics forum is not were you would want to be.

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