Mountain Meg Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 I have been enjoying mixing my own glazes and am experiencing success. A friend gave me his cone 10 temmoku glaze recipe rewritten to cone 6 ...I appreciate his kindness; howver, I have not had any success with it. I have found some online but don't know if they are reliable. Thanks for helping me, Mountain Meg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 I have been tinkering with every tenmoku recipe I can find for cone 6 oxidation for a long time now. It is going to be very hard to get anything that resembles the reduction cone 6 and 10 tenmokus. All I can say is just start trying recipes with your clay body and try different schedules. They fire much differently between schedules and kilns. My favorite is the red black tenmoku, but so far I have been unable to replicate anything near it. I have about 150 tiles in my garage of different tenmoku combinations on about 20 base tenmoku glazes. My best results lately are a tenmoku, then with a glaze over it to get a tea dust type effect. What type of tenmoku colors are you looking for? This is a pretty good one here that looks good on a light colored stoneware or poreclain. http://cone6pots.ning.com/profiles/blogs/vee-s-tenmoku-gold-particular-about-cooling-1 I believe this is the recipe: http://glazy.org/recipes/1563 I don't use this recipe as it doesn't look that good on my stoneware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Joseph: I use only metal oxides in crystalline glaze; and there are several varieties of Iron FE. Spanish Red is 83% pure, Red is over 95%, and yellow which is a weaker version. Then there is brown, which is a natural form of FE. I use three of the four, the Spanish red just does not pop the colors for me. Another trick is to add just a touch of magnesium MGO .10 to .25 of 1%, or the same of Manganese. I use both to get gold in my crystals. There are enough differences in iron varieties to make a difference in the outcome. Have you tested the different Fe's? Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 All the cone 6 Tenmoku glazes I've seen look more brown than black, break more yellow than red, and are more transparent unless applied very thick. It may be worth exploring the use of silicon carbide for localized reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Miller Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Neil, in my experience, cone 6 tenmoku glazes need a bit more iron to get the same colour values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I have tried nat, high purity, syn, and black iron oxide. I get different results with them all. I have a few that I like a lot but as Neil said most of them are transparent and brown. The ones I like are very black when applied thick. I will post some results of entire cups glazed when I get to it next week. If you like any of them I will share the recipes with you, Meg. It's just hard to see much from a picture of a little tile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Joseph: Then perhaps oxide trick #2 - add .10 to .25 cobalt oxide to darken them into the black realm. Temmoku and Avertine are the only two glazes I have played with besides crystalline and john doe cone 6. I tried a lead free avertine several times, but gave up on it. It calls for Colemanite, and I could never get a pure grade until now. So that is back on my menu to try again. Play with the cobalt and get the black you want: can deal with the transparency issue once you get color. Although the color will change the refractive index, and you may decide to just let it be. By the way, I only use 3-4% Lithium Carb at cone 6, and the recipe you linked to has 6%- more than enough to get the job done. Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Neil, in my experience, cone 6 tenmoku glazes need a bit more iron to get the same colour values. Agreed, but even with the higher percentage I haven't seen them behave like reduced cone 10 glazes. I would love to have a cone 6 oxidation tenmoku that breaks as red as a reduced one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Play with the cobalt and get the black you want: can deal with the transparency issue once you get color. Although the color will change the refractive index, and you may decide to just let it be. Nerd Getting black is not the hard part. Getting black that breaks iron red is the trick, and adding cobalt won't achieve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Getting red with oxides in oxidation is tough. I see Joseph is relying on "blood red" iron, which is the most common route. Thought about selenium, but I do not think that would work in this case. I copied the formula Joseph, my little test kiln needs something to do anyway. Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Miller Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Neil, in my experience, cone 6 tenmoku glazes need a bit more iron to get the same colour values. Agreed, but even with the higher percentage I haven't seen them behave like reduced cone 10 glazes. I would love to have a cone 6 oxidation tenmoku that breaks as red as a reduced one. I thought had an example of something that would work, but I'd misremembered the details. You're right, they're not quite the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I came across some info on people layering 2 tenmokus at cone ten to get good varigation and iron crystals. I haven't tested it on my khaki, but I have an amber that I layered over a layer of red art slip and it came up with some interesting results that in terms of crystals and breaking. I don't know if it holds true at cone 6 or not, but if Nerd is offering to run his test kiln, it could be worth an inquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 This is a good read about cone6 iron reds. I think the final colour depends a lot on how you fire along with the recipe. http://cone6pots.ning.com/forum/topics/iron-glazes-and-achieving-red-color-in-oxidation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I have been able to get colors that look like tenmoku that isn't the issue. The tenmoku I love is the one Neil is talking about. The beautiful red rust breaks with iron crystals. The issue is the reduction creates the red crystals from what I have read. I have slow cooked drastically but it turns the entire glaze redder instead of just producing crystals. It also decreases the gloss of the glaze which I didn't like. I think a big issue is I need to go hotter. Like cone 7+ and hold there then slow cool and hold around cone 5-6. To bring out the colors. I read somewhere that the iron bubbles and brings crystals to the surface around cone 7. I could be reberimg wrong though. If I had a small test kiln I would work on this nonstop. This and a crawly pinholy shino. But I sold my test kiln cause it wouldn't reach temp. Maybe I'll get a good one in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Miller Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Joseph, here's the article I think you're remembering. http://ceramicartsdaily.org/ceramic-glaze-recipes/glaze-chemistry-ceramic-glaze-recipes-2/oil-spot-and-hares-fur-glazes-demystifying-a-classic-ceramic-glaze/ Oil spots/Hare's fur are fired in oxidation at cone 7+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 That article about iron is excellent. I haven't seen that before. I am going to tinker some in the future with some of that information. Thanks Joel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Tyler ur right. That's it. Read that a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I was on the Ravenscraig website looking up something else, and I came across this tidbit. The link for the website is here, and the reference is halfway down the page for Ravenscraig plum red cone 6. It looks pretty close to my Khaki at cone 10. http://plainsmanclays.com/ravenscrag/index.php?recipes6=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Diesel thats a great link, However I don't really have a problem getting that color, with even a brighter blood red color than that. The color I am looking for is more along these lines: I would love to achieve something like this at cone 6-7 oxidation. Hell I would fire to 8-10 if I could get results like this. I don't think it is possible from just random recipes on the internet though, I assume anything is possible, but it would take a lot of work, and maybe could be a side project I work on later on right now my plan isn't to create more glazes but to work on what I have modified and like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Ravenscraig slip is produced by Plainsman clays, and Tony Hanson does the formulation on their product. It's got a bit of a pedigree that way at least. Sorry if I was seeming like was offering random weirdness. And that colour of tenmoku makes a difference, yes. I get a similar colour to your picture with red art slip layered under the khaki. I don't have a sample, it all sold at Christmas. Again, at cone 10, but if anyone else wanted to pursue that line of exploration at cone 6, they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I am sorry if I came across as rude. I didn't mean to be at all. I didn't think you were offering "random weirdness" at all. Just good solid input . Others might not have that color like the OP. It was good information. I just wanted to convey the colors that I find impossible to get at ^6 so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Beller Diesel Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 It's all good! I didn't think you were rude There ARE a lot of random glaze recipes on the Internet of varying levels of quality, and it did occur to me that if the link was only given a quick glance, it would indeed look kind of sketchy. I sometimes realize too late that I give responses that assume other people can hear everything that goes on in my head, and not everything made it onto the page that should have. I thought this might have been one of those instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I sometimes realize too late that I give responses that assume other people can hear everything that goes on in my head, and not everything made it onto the page that should have. I thought this might have been one of those instances. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 So I went out in my garage and started looking at my most successful cone 6 tenmoku tiles. This is probably my best one closest to what I wanted. It is a slightly modified version of V's from the recipe I posted above. I just added a few more % of RIO and used Synthetic. This tile was fired to about 6.5 almost 7. I wonder if I had dropped fast then held at 950C for an hour if it would have increased the crystal growth. Under a normal room lighting condition taken with a camera phone: Under a lightbox, also taken with camera phone. in a hurry: As you can see it gets almost transparent near the top and thick and black near the bottom. I think if I increased the alumina in the recipe the glaze might not run as much and stay thicker near the top. I will have to try holding it, as you can see the crystals are starting to come out of the iron, but still nothing great. When I fired this glaze to cone 6 it had almost 0 crystal spotting, so I think going to 6.5 definitely helped. I might fire a cup with it tonight just for kicks and try that schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazenerd Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Joseph: Got four rolls in the oven baking. Sounds better than, I have four test tiles firing to cone 6. Did you notice in one of the recipes Diesel posted that cobalt was included? Made a few minor exchanges: talc has more magnesium than dolomite does. Swapped out some Fluorspar for Whiting. Put a whisper of cobalt in one. Secret ingredients in one - always have to have at least one mystery test tile in every batch. The fun part of glaze- experimenting. Edit- forgot something: Programmed a slow cool from 2100-1850F @ 60 F an hour. Edit 2: applied at .50G per S.I. Nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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