keithyj Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 Hi all, I am attempting to set up a company to make Islamic Geometric tiles. Traditionally these are cut in Morocco from square earthenware tiles, but it has proved to be uneconomic to import them. I am therefore searching for alternative ways to produce them, and have recently been made aware of a Spanish company that makes the tiles from moulds, see link: http://www.alizares.es/home.htm I would like to set up a studio to replicate their process, but know nothing about ceramics or tile making. Please can anyone with any experience of tile making give me some tips so that I know where to begin. My thought was to laser cut the shapes into a piece of 12mm polycarbonate, with a 1mm thin sheet of stainless steel overlay. The clay could then be worked into the mould, which could then be lifted off. The stainless steel overlay would protect the polycarbonate from damage. The shapes would then be left to dry in situ and only moved when they were dry enough to do so without distortion. Would this work? How could I ensure even shrinkage so the shapes fitted precisely together again after firing? What is the best clay to use? What don't I know? I attach a picture of a sample pattern that I would be aiming to replicate. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Keithyj
Marcia Selsor Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 I have been to that factory. The example you show is called zalik here is how they are made.From a previous discussion. http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/topic/6820-zalik-tile-process-you-tube-from-clay-to-mosaics/
keithyj Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Posted May 31, 2015 Hi, just to clarify, I know precisely how these tiles patterns are traditionally made. I have been to Morocco, met the zellij makers, seen how they cut the tiles, commissioned tiled panels and had them made. Unfortunately, the Moroccans have, how can I put this politely, a non-Western approach to business, that makes it difficult to control the commissioning process and get them to deliver the specified design accurately and on time. In addition the costs and time lags involved in importing the tiles are prohibitive. I would therefore like to try to make these tiles using moulds, but don't know how to go about doing this. I know this can be done (see my original post). Any help you could give me with my original question would be gratefully received. Thanks. btw the picture is from the Alcazar in Seville. Hope you liked it.
BeckyH Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 Have you done anything as basic as going to the library and getting a book on ceramic tilemaking? We can answer specific questions, but can't really teach you everything about clays, etc. Are these going to be used indoors or outdoors? Are you making a variety of shapes you can glaze and fit together as you choose? Is there a pottery studio in your area where you could take a class on hand building and play with some clay? Have you even checked to see if this is being done by anyone in the U.S.? Starting a business is a challenge even when you are intimately familiar with your materials and processes. Spend a while learning.
oldlady Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 angelica pozo of cleveland ohio has written two books about how to make tile. please start there and you will see that making tile is not exactly a stainless steel and polycarbonate kind of operation. the people who have made them for centuries know what it takes to make them. there is a book about making a specific design using a tile press that came out in 1994 describing exactly how to make many types of tiles. the author frank giordini designed the press, a way of cutting tiles and molds for them. he was proud to have made 100 tiles in one day. he should have been proud of such an accomplishment. it sounds as though you might be trying to put an elephant into a thimble.
Marcia Selsor Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 Hi, just to clarify, I know precisely how these tiles patterns are traditionally made. I have been to Morocco, met the zellij makers, seen how they cut the tiles, commissioned tiled panels and had them made. Unfortunately, the Moroccans have, how can I put this politely, a non-Western approach to business, that makes it difficult to control the commissioning process and get them to deliver the specified design accurately and on time. In addition the costs and time lags involved in importing the tiles are prohibitive. I would therefore like to try to make these tiles using moulds, but don't know how to go about doing this. I know this can be done (see my original post). Any help you could give me with my original question would be gratefully received. Thanks. btw the picture is from the Alcazar in Seville. Hope you liked it. Yes, I recognized the tiles from the Alcazar. I have given talks at NCECA about them. A tile could be press molded and then use a cuerda seca line, a wax line, and then glaze the partitions different colors. It is still labor intensive. Marcia
oldlady Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 there are specialists who can make cookie cutters in whatever shape you like. that may be the answer to mass production. cut them from slabs after applying glaze, put them into a kiln and you will have a bunch of one color, then do the same thing with each style and color. then there is only a matter of assembling them all again. reminds me of the man who wanted to make an automatic tomato picker. it worked well by reading color, tossing red things one way to be saved and any other color the other way. too bad the rattlesnake blood was red.
Benzine Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 Love that video. I have watched before, I had to watch it all over again. When it comes to geometric mosaics, the Muslim artists have it down.
keithyj Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Posted June 1, 2015 Re: tile books, I have the Giorgini book, which is very good, and it does suggest a couple of ways in which I could make the tiles: cutting shapes from slabs using a cookie cutter for instance. However, much of the book is concerned with making embossed tiles that require a press, and that is not really what I require. My query was really whether it is possible to make shaped tiles by pressing clay into pre-formed shaped holes in a mould of some kind. I had in mind the way handmade terracota tiles are made in Provence, or Norfolk Pamments as in this Youtube video: Has anyone got any experience of doing this?
jolieo Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 Hi sorry for the frustration of getting your question answered! Clay is not a one stop process. What might work, would take a lot of effort to get to. So if you found a clay that was able to be press moulded, and it dried evenly, and it fired to bisque well , and then it took the glaze you wanted well, well it would be short of a miracle to chance upon it by asking the folks in this forum.i doubt it could be done without extreme testing, over coming each hurdle as it became apparent. A better place for your inquiry would be companies that manufacture anything out of ceramics. Their specifications would probably line up with the kind of production you are talking about. Automated hand made tiles would no longer be handmade though. If it were profitable and feasible to mass produce those tiles here, more likely than not , some one would be doing it. Someone is producing them on a one off scale here in the states though becaucause we have them here in saint Augustine Florida to fix the old Spanish tiles in the buildings here.f Or import a Moroccan , someone there has to want emigrate , or visit. Set them up . Even one or two working small scale would give you imo a better product than mass produced. Who knows, the differences in materials here might give rise to something new.
Chilly Posted June 2, 2015 Report Posted June 2, 2015 From what I recall of visiting a factory making tiles in "The Potteries" (an area in Staffordshire, England), they press mould pure talc using a pressure of several hundred (or even thousand) pounds. Using talc prevents any shrinkage.
Celia UK Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 I think the Norfolk Video answers your question pretty well on its own. Good luck!
keithyj Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Posted June 12, 2015 re: the video, as you suggest I think the best policy is just to give this a go. Thanks
neilestrick Posted June 12, 2015 Report Posted June 12, 2015 There is going to be a big learning curve if you've never worked with clay before. In addition to working with the clay, there's also the process of glazing and firing. It takes a long time to really learn how to work with clay, like years. I think if you want to make the business successful, you're going to need to take some clay classes so you know what you're getting into before you can even begin to make a realistic business plan.
Mug Posted June 29, 2015 Report Posted June 29, 2015 He may have left, but In the video they let the tiles dry for 4 weeks to 8 weeks, there is nothing quick about that. Add one mistake to a design in drying, firing or glazing and you can add another 4 weeks at the minimum. Western people need to understand that there is nothing quick or perfect in ceramics especially when the words "Custom made" are used in the same sentence. I would wager that the tile makers take great pride in what they do and probably bend over backwards to keep people happy. If customer wants Moroccan tile, it needs to be made clear, it is not cheap, the customer will have to wait for it, and it may be a long wait. Dealling with a domestic tile maker may be a speedy alteranative, but a Morocco knockoff may hold little if any value to the customer.
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