Pinging Pots

[Pres]

Kilndoc,

 

That's a good find, and for me it settles the debate. Don't sell pots that have crazing on the food surface - too risky for me. I'll also note there's a section on Utensils in the food code that's separate from your cited section:

 

Multiuse

 

4-101.11 Characteristics.

Materials that are used in the construction of utensils and food-contact surfaces of equipment may not allow the migration of deleterious substances or impart colors, odors, or tastes to food and under normal use conditions shall be:

A Safe;

B Durable, corrosion-resistant, and nonabsorbent;

C Sufficient in weight and thickness to withstand repeated warewashing;

D Finished to have a smooth, easily cleanable surface; and

E Resistant to pitting, chipping, crazing, scratching, scoring, distortion, and decomposition.

 

Whatever the state-sanction is for ignoring these codes, potters should be concerned about the effect of this code on tort law. If a customer got sick drinking or eating from a crazed pot, the potter could easily be on the hook for selling a defective product. It's little wonder that commercial sellers do that warning about crazed glaze. Now the question would be . . . If you sell a decorative teacup with a crazed glaze, and your warning is removed or ignored - are you still liable if the customer ignores you? Huh, it's bad being a lawyer.

 

 

A little side here about the pinging. When I was a grad student at a reputable university in PA, I made 150 pieces one summer all in the functional range. I was living in a one bedroom apartment with my wife, and had put the pots all in the living areas. When the weather started to change in the Fall, the pinging started to happen. I had so much noise that I couldn't sleep, she either. So the pots were put on the back porch, that exited to an alley, except for a few that I really loved. Problem solved. At the same time I noticed the pots on the porch started to fade away, sometimes 2-3 at a time. Later in life I have gone into someones home and found a piece of pottery in a special display, that the homeowners would say how much they loved it. I never mention the fact that the small signature on bottom in the swirly text is mine!

[Chris Campbell]

Even if you ingest dangerous bacteria, you have to eat a lot of them before you would be affected.

 

If you have a high enough powered microscope you would find crackles in a very high percentage of the pottery you are using right now ... Commercial or hand made.

 

Good or bad, Bacteria needs specific environments in order to survive. Specific conditions regarding humidity, temperature and space ... Yes, they need room to multiply even if everything else is in place. Maybe if you kept dirty dishes overnight in the sink in a hot room then lightly wiped them off with a dirty towel you could make enough trouble for yourself to get sick ... but in that case I would probably question your cleanliness levels for preparing food too.

 

So once again it's an 'all depends' answer ...

Would I use a crazed plate in a questionable buffet/cafeteria ... Heck NO.

Would I use one in my own kitchen where I know it has been properly washed and dried ... Yes.

Would I sell a visibly crazed plate ... NO, because I cannot control what people do with it after they buy it.

Would I buy one ... Not for everyday use but for dry food ... Yes.

[Pres]

Even if you ingest dangerous bacteria, you have to eat a lot of them before you would be affected.

 

If you have a high enough powered microscope you would find crackles in a very high percentage of the pottery you are using right now ... Commercial or hand made.

 

Good or bad, Bacteria needs specific environments in order to survive. Specific conditions regarding humidity, temperature and space ... Yes, they need room to multiply even if everything else is in place. Maybe if you kept dirty dishes overnight in the sink in a hot room then lightly wiped them off with a dirty towel you could make enough trouble for yourself to get sick ... but in that case I would probably question your cleanliness levels for preparing food too.

 

So once again it's an 'all depends' answer ...

Would I use a crazed plate in a questionable buffet/cafeteria ... Heck NO.

Would I use one in my own kitchen where I know it has been properly washed and dried ... Yes.

Would I sell a visibly crazed plate ... NO, because I cannot control what people do with it after they buy it.

Would I buy one ... Not for everyday use but for dry food ... Yes.

 

 

Good Common Sense for both the seller and consumer. Thank you

[GEP]

Even if you ingest dangerous bacteria, you have to eat a lot of them before you would be affected.

 

If you have a high enough powered microscope you would find crackles in a very high percentage of the pottery you are using right now ... Commercial or hand made.

 

Good or bad, Bacteria needs specific environments in order to survive. Specific conditions regarding humidity, temperature and space ... Yes, they need room to multiply even if everything else is in place. Maybe if you kept dirty dishes overnight in the sink in a hot room then lightly wiped them off with a dirty towel you could make enough trouble for yourself to get sick ... but in that case I would probably question your cleanliness levels for preparing food too.

 

So once again it's an 'all depends' answer ...

Would I use a crazed plate in a questionable buffet/cafeteria ... Heck NO.

Would I use one in my own kitchen where I know it has been properly washed and dried ... Yes.

Would I sell a visibly crazed plate ... NO, because I cannot control what people do with it after they buy it.

Would I buy one ... Not for everyday use but for dry food ... Yes.

 

 

Good Common Sense for both the seller and consumer. Thank you

 

 

 

 

I agree, Chris! Thank you for the common sense.

[Peggy1]

That was a great education on the pinging and crazing . Thanks so much for schooling an ole timer.

[Guest JBaymore]

Just to be very clear here for everyone reading this thread, the FDA Food Code is specifically written for the retail food industry, not for application to individual consumer usage.

 

From the Preface to "RetaiL Food Protection" section under which the the Food Code is listed (bold face is mine):

 

"More than 3,000 state, local and tribal agencies have primary responsibility to regulate the retail food and foodservice industries in the United States. They are responsible for the inspection and oversight of over 1 million food establishments - restaurants and grocery stores, as well as vending machines, cafeterias, and other outlets in health-care facilities, schools, and correctional facilities. FDA strives to promote the application of science-based food safety principles in retail and foodservice settings to minimize the the incidence of foodborne illness."

 

Fron the Introduction to the Food Code (bold face is mine):

 

"The U. S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) publishes the Food Code, a model that assists food control jurisdictions at all levels of government by providing them with a scientifically sound technical and legal basis for regulating the retail and food service segment of the industry (restaurants and grocery stores and institutions such as nursing homes). Local, state, tribal, and federal regulators use the FDA Food Code as a model to develop or update their own food safety rules and to be consistent with national food regulatory policy."

 

If you actually take the time to read through the standards set forth in this code, and try to apply them to the typical day-to-day usage for the average consumer, you'd quickly find that none of our kitchens nor cooking procedures would easily pass muster. Most would fail miserably. And rightly so, since we are not running commercial operations. There are good reasons that the standards for such operations are far higher than those for home use; it is a different and very specific application

 

Applying standards from industry to personal usages is like comparing a Ford Fiesta to an Indy car. They are both cars.... end of most similarities.

 

If you are planning on selling pottrery items to the commercial industry, then you'd better know these standards inside and out. If not, they are merely one more source of potential information that you can use as you educate yourself about your field.

 

For general pottery production work you mainly need to know the Laws of Merchantability, and the FDA lead and cadmium release standards. If you sell in the State of California, you also need to know their lead and cadmium release standards, which are more stringent than the FDA's.

 

Let's be careful to not "go off the deep end" here.

 

best,

 

.................john

[Magpie]

Great, this has been very informative. I didn't know what I was getting started but I'm glad I did.