Min Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well ... talked to an extremely helpful person at Bailey. They answered all of my questions. I've decided on the MXP 125. Also, they are willing to put the pug and an electric slab roller aside and let me get in mid October so I won't have to wait a couple months after I place the order. All I can say is customer service sells. I couldn't get anyone to answer questions at another manufacturer. I'm very confident in ordering this product now. I'm interested in the extruding and 12 inch tile production. I got a very specific answer to my questions about the tile extruded slabs. Congrats! Are you ever going to be able to crank out the tiles with that big boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The clay is wonderfully creamy and evenly damp. What I do is cut my pugs for the poundage I want and then turn them side wise on the wedging table, or sometimes just at the wheel, on the bat, and give them 3-4 quick wedges, to break up the spiral from the pugger. I had been trying to throw with the pugs standing up on end, like a soup can,and they throw BEAUTIFULLY that way, but I was getting too many S cracks. There was a topic on this and several people do throw that way with good bottom results, but I haven't been able to overcome the cracks. Wish I could. I think from that thread that Mea might have been one who did with good results. For HB, I just flatten the pug on one side a bit with my fist and throw it in the slab roller. I do rotate it several time as I roll it to the thinness I want. I don't have any warping problems with that method. +1 for on their edge. about 5:30 in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The clay is wonderfully creamy and evenly damp. What I do is cut my pugs for the poundage I want and then turn them side wise on the wedging table, or sometimes just at the wheel, on the bat, and give them 3-4 quick wedges, to break up the spiral from the pugger. I had been trying to throw with the pugs standing up on end, like a soup can,and they throw BEAUTIFULLY that way, but I was getting too many S cracks. There was a topic on this and several people do throw that way with good bottom results, but I haven't been able to overcome the cracks. Wish I could. I think from that thread that Mea might have been one who did with good results. For HB, I just flatten the pug on one side a bit with my fist and throw it in the slab roller. I do rotate it several time as I roll it to the thinness I want. I don't have any warping problems with that method. Most s cracks are commpression issues so I suggest more bottom pressure when throwing. I never wedge from my peter pugger with zero isssues-I rarely wedge since wrist surgery (PRC) Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay lover Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Clay is CHEEEEP, I used to do horses! Pug mills cost less than a good saddle . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hershey8 Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 WOW! I just cleaned up my old Bluebird 650 pug mill and filled it up with left-over stoneware. I am amazed! The tech at Bluebird said it would pug about a thousand pounds per hour. I put the clay in the hopper, mash it down, and out comes a 4 1/4 pug. It doesn't seem to be a speedy process, but it comes out almost as fast as it goes in. Holy cow! I cut off a round with a wire, put it on the wheel, center, cone up and down, and it sure feels a lot better than cutting from a block and making balls. I have made many slices to check for air bubbles, and they pretty much do not appear to be there. I don't understand that, as this is probably a 25-30 year-old, non-deairing mill. Not saying I never get any bubbles; sometimes I think I introduce some small ones while throwing. I think I'll always have some of those, no matter how much I machine-pug or hand-wedge. But I had no idea that this mill would work this well. A thousand pounds per hour? Well maybe on a good day, but I don't even have a thousand pounds of clay, and I don't think I'd want to work that hard just to prove it. But what a thrill to be able to recycle all that junk clay! Now when I screw up a pot on the wheel, it doesn't seem like such a big deal. Worth the $150 I spent, and the trip from north Georgia to New York to pick it up. I'd do it again, in a light-second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Fireborn Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Nice. I would drive to new York for 150 dollar pugmill just to mix my own clays. Glad it worked for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Venco milss use screens and Peter puggers do not. Not sure about how large the stainless capicity is in a venco stainless twin mill? They are Australian made which is about as gar as Peter Puggers for you. mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieAlonzo Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 I have the small Peter Pugger. It quirts about 15-20lbs per "batch". I had to swap out the aluminum for stainless after one year of use. I wasn't happy, but now I am. Just throw money at it and eventually it'll get right. There is a small learning curve with the Peter Pugger, but after a few batches, you get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 I have the small Peter Pugger. It quirts about 15-20lbs per "batch". I had to swap out the aluminum for stainless after one year of use. I wasn't happy, but now I am. Just throw money at it and eventually it'll get right. There is a small learning curve with the Peter Pugger, but after a few batches, you get it right. I have the small Peter Pugger. It quirts about 15-20lbs per "batch". I had to swap out the aluminum for stainless after one year of use. I wasn't happy, but now I am. Just throw money at it and eventually it'll get right. There is a small learning curve with the Peter Pugger, but after a few batches, you get it right. How pitted was the barrel aftr only one year?? My aluminum barrel is many years old with porcelain in it always and the pitting is not bad at all? Why not use it till it failed pitting wise before swapping it out? Also what did a new stainless barrel set you back? for that size? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieAlonzo Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 I was using B-Mix (mostly) from Laguna. I had a kiln load fired at cone 5-6 come out with clear liner glaze with " Chocolate Chips" You won't see it bisque fired. When I cleaned the pugger out, chunks of black scale were in the clay; up to 1/2" diameter. The picture I uploaded is the clay I cleaned out of the pug mill before I replaced the aluminum housing. That ball of clay is the size of a tennis ball. I may have some fired pieces that alerted me to the problem. I paid $700 to "upgrade" but I live close to Ukiah and it was cost effective to get it done. I love my Peter Pugger don't get me wrong. I just was not expecting Bmix to do porcelain damage. It all about pH. You just have to know what you are chukking into your machine. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Since B mix is a white stoneware body I'm surprized this could happen in an aluminum barrel. The chips you say discolored a clear liner glaze ? was it Iron spotting or something else.I have the larger peter pugger that holds 85# and it is nota stainless option with the larger models. Porcelain over time will pit the barrel but no spotting. You have any idea other than wrong PH what this was? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieAlonzo Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Chunks of black (reduced) aluminum scaled off around the auger. The barrel was literally pock-marked; not just pitted. The only clay that ran through the machine was Aardvark Sedona, B-mix, LB-6, and Graystone (blah). Apparenly I got a crappy cast and you got a good one. See the bmix pic in my previous post. It ruined a few pieces. Black spots showed through the clear liner glaze. Not iron stained. That would have been okay. It happened, it's fixed, and I use the darn thing a few times a week. It saves my wrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 The aluminum barrels are cast by a foundry in Bay area-the stainless is machined on a cnc they have in shop-hence the size limit they only do the smaller machines in stainless. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtRoads Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Well ... talked to an extremely helpful person at Bailey. They answered all of my questions. I've decided on the MXP 125. Also, they are willing to put the pug and an electric slab roller aside and let me get in mid October so I won't have to wait a couple months after I place the order. All I can say is customer service sells. I couldn't get anyone to answer questions at another manufacturer. I'm very confident in ordering this product now. I'm interested in the extruding and 12 inch tile production. I got a very specific answer to my questions about the tile extruded slabs. Congrats! Are you ever going to be able to crank out the tiles with that big boy! Ordered my electric slab roller from Bailey. Talked to Bailey again about the Pug Mill. I was thinking I could use the 12 inch tile extruder and SKIP the slab rolling step for all my pieces less than 12 inches wide. I never planned on using it for actual tiles ... I don't see making tiles ... ever. After talking with Mark C, some friend of Alice's and the main pug mill person at Bailey, I came to the conclusion this wouldn't really work. So ... Bailey suggested a smaller pug mill .. the C-126-MSV25T. The same one that Min has ... except the non stainless steel. I don't foresee ever using anything but stoneware clay. The stainless steel one is $1300 more. I will mostly be pugging scraps. Never mixing dry clay, except for a few broken pieces. Any thoughts about the stainless steel? Or this machine ? https://www.baileypottery.com/pugmills-mixers/baileyMSVmixerpugmills.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavy Fire Studios Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 My thoughts are that I'm supremely jealous and that I want one right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcia Selsor Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 maybe thinking practically you might try recycling this way: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKui_DVUzXA When I was starting out in a studio in upstate NY, I was a caretaker on an old estate that had a greenhouse near the studio. I mixed a slurry in a trash can and poured it into flower pots to dry. I used cheesecloth to line the pots and a piece of paper to stop the slurry from running out the hole in the bottom. It made soft plastic clay. Marcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy_in_GA Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 " I was thinking I could use the 12 inch tile extruder and SKIP the slab rolling step for all my pieces less than 12 inches wide. ... I came to the conclusion this wouldn't really work. " What was the reason this wouldn't work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtRoads Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 " I was thinking I could use the 12 inch tile extruder and SKIP the slab rolling step for all my pieces less than 12 inches wide. ... I came to the conclusion this wouldn't really work. " What was the reason this wouldn't work? Partially because of the cost .... A manual tile roller belt cost $780. Total cost of the machine the MXP 125 cost $7800 plus $325 for tile extruder. Add that to the fact that I couldn't find anyone that was using this machinery for this exact purpose, I thought it might be too much extra to spend, not being sure how it worked. I did consider asking someone from the forums that lives in that area to check this out (I was going to pay them). But, they said they didn't have one at the factory. A tech at Bailey told me that just pugging and then putting the pieces through the electric slab roller would probably be faster. The main time savings for the tile extruder would be square or rectangle pieces that wouldn't need cutting, and I don't do that many of these shapes (and NO tiles at all). Getting the long continuous piece to roll out evenly and without clumping seemed to be an issue. I talked to this one tile maker and he had an electric conveyor belt (converted from a grocery checkout), fitted with canvas, that was timed exactly with the output of the pug tile extruder. He built it himself ... I don't build things like this My final decision came from the tech at Bailey that suggested I would be better served with the with MSV 25T, which costs $3450 ... the other set up was going to cost around $9K. He said they sell a lot of these MSV 25's and have had great success with them. Coupled with the fact I had just ordered the 40 inch electric slab roller, he thought it a fitting option. Mark had told me this same thing earlier. Not like I could have replaced the electric slab roller with the MXP 125 because I have several pieces that are wider than 12 inches. Plus ... I flip slabs over using slab mats. Now I'll just toss all scraps in the pug mill, and run them through like new clay in the electric slab roller. I'm really excited about replacing that manual slab roller. If I had found someone that had used a pug/mixer/extruder for this purpose and they told me it saved a significant amount of time ... I might not have ruled it out. But no one could assure me of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy_in_GA Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thanks for the great details... I always like having the facts of how someone came to a decision since everybody's pros and cons can be different. I also couldn't work out why you couldn't skip the slab roller since it's basic purpose is to get an even thickness slab which is sounded like the tile extruder would do. There always more to consider with how the machinery actually produces work. I would dearly love an electric slab roller ... I've used several different brands manual ones and it always seems like more work than my extra wide rolling pin and thickness strips made from wooden yardsticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 judy, sometimes it isn't the tool itself that is bad but the way it is used. i have seen people use some slab rollers and make a big production out of a simple slab. one person had a tabletop model and it was always somewhere else when she needed it. once it was found and finally set up she used two tiny pieces of heavy canvas and the fabric got caught in the roller at the bottom. after digging that out she finally got a slab flat and then turned it over and rolled it the other way to make sure it would not warp. the piece of clay was only about 16 inches square. then she put the whole rig away and used the slab at another table. what a lot of work! but it wasn't the fault of the slab roller, just the potter not thinking out what needed to be done. the long tables that have boards that have to be used to determine thickness are a real nuisance and are usually covered with things that should be somewhere else. (any flat surface gets used for junk nearly everywhere.) and walking while rolling seems pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy_in_GA Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Both of the ones I've used multiple times were the kind where the rollers sit in the middle of the table and are adjustable up/down for thickness. One had a wheel and one a crank handle... Both required me to walk back and forth to re-feed the canvas going the other way. The one at the community studio someone was always using the canvas marked for white with their red clay. At least with the rolling pin you can just wash it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 one of the first tools i ever bought was a 30 inch rolling pin. keeping it from getting dings in it is still a struggle. i have a holder like a giant spring that is just a bit bigger in diameter than the rolling pin so it is protected. rolling out deliberate texture from a rolling pin is one thing, a gash from a dropped tool is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy_in_GA Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I took a page from your book oldlady and mounted a couple of big hooks just under the edge of my work table on the skirt. The rolling pin is cradled ... It's handy but protected. The opposite side of the table has some of those plastic silverware organizer trays mounted on screws (it's removable) to catch crumbs and tools. One of these days I'll get pics posted of my studio setup ... I've gotten ideas from most everyone here and implemented them all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtRoads Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 The Bailey MXP 125 pug/mixer and Bailey electric slab roller have been in the studio for about 2 weeks now. Thank to everyone that has posted anything about pugs. And a special thanks to Mark C. for mentioning a power slab roller several months ago. The machines are everything I hoped they would be. No post purchase dissonance whatsoever. And a shout out to the people at Bailey. They were extremely helpful and responsive. Thanks again. Sharon Grimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewV Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 The bit of advice I have heard is to run the pug mill every day to avoid corrosion. Just pug some clay, even if you are just putting it back into a bucket. From the stance of corrosion engineering, this makes quite a bit of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.