Jump to content

Discussion On Clay


jolieo

Recommended Posts

Hi

I have read a lot about glazes. Even a good deal about firing. I feel clay, very much the body of work, isn't talked about as much. And I just had an experience. So I bought a low fire clay years ago, and 2 mid fires last year, one a mid porcelain, and little loafers. I also bought a wheel last year. I messed about some, but I was recuperating from an illness, and the skin of my hands and my nails had a bad reaction to the clay. So I started up again a month ago. I am self taught, so I am blundering about for a bit. I manage to put maybe four vessels together. I have a coworker who minor edit in ceramics, he says he would be happy to mess about with me. So I am low on the little loafers, off to Jacksonville I go. But they are out, so I ask for a good throwing clay.the give me something from Laguna, and tell me they disconti the little loafers due to bloating.

I take this new clay home, and I can throw, the pots I make look like pots. The walls can with stand me messing with them for longer than a minute. Totally , totally different animal.

So do I run and invest all my money in this clay? Or is there a way to know? Should I be asking for sample? Are recipes consistent or only batch to batch?

I can't do a plug mill, or a thousand pounds ( Good Grief a thousand pounds melting back into the earth here in rainy humid Florida ). The difference was so astounding that I am scared to really go throw a lot in case I made it up and it turns into the clay that hates me again.

How do you figure clay out so that it works well if I can't buy huge amounts or make it myself?

Is it like glaze, where you add stuff to it ? But how to add in a consistent manor?

Insights delighted in. Jolie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before running out and buying a large amount of clay, I'd wait until after you bisque and glaze . . . see how your glazes work with the clay body. It might throw nice, but the end game is, how does it work after the final firing.

 

There can be variations in commercial clay from batch to batch. I've used Little Loafers for years -- it is my main white stoneware -- and have had no bloating. But LL is made in both NC and FL -- so it could have been a bad batch. Same with Laguna clays -- they are made in multiple locations -- CA, OH, FL. So variation happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest JBaymore

One of the things that many often forget is that when you are getting a new batch of material (like a clay body) is that you should TEST IT before you put it into any significant production.  Don't find out AFTER you've turned that new ton of clay into pots that ther is a problem ;) .

 

best,

 

.................john

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I am just starting to understand glaze chemistry in theory. So I dont have glazes yet- i have one that i am planning on buying premade and one that i have choosen out of John Britt's mid fire book. In concept i understand testing,but what do i look for. 

 So  having a clay that throws much better than the other, is that something that is pretty easy to come up with? I just got a bad batch? i didnt want too many clays around because i am uncertain how to organize and i thought simplicity rather than variation was the way to go. i still feel that way, cuz LL is cone 7-8 on the bag i got got, and i think this is cone 5-6, and of corse it means nothing till i test BUT if i have too many clay bodies , i am bound to become more confused than i already am.

 I was going to go out and buy everything I could think of to start this new thing. THEN i got tripped up on glazes, thought to buy everything to start making them, got overwhelmed and backed down. Then i realised i dont even have well made pots to put in the kiln. So i focused on that. I thought , boy were you right! this throwing thing is going to take a minute! then i get the new clay and my throwing goes from a three year old made it, to this looks like you know what your doing.

 So here's what i am asking: how do i keep getting the kind of clay that gives me that kind of throwing results? I'll throw something and post pictures of both. I dont think i could go back to the other with out real disappointment...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi and hang in there :-)  wish you could come visit for a few, I could let you try several clays and give you some throwing pointers.  Is there a center near you that you could work in some to get the feel of different clays?  I find them very different, and don't think LL is an easy first clay to use.  I find Highwater's Brownstone and Redstone more user friendly. Ellen Buff is agreeable IF it doesn't arrive too wet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I picked up some porcelain that was available in a far away city where I was delivering pots. I thought combining the destination was a good idea. But I found this clay was not as responsive for my forms as Coleman porcelain. So I am back with two destinations. It is good to try a box of something new every so often just to see. 

I have ordered as much as 2 tons of a favorite custom blend when I lived in Montana, but I am not producing those items as much anymore.

I have changed some of my products which work best in Colman porcelain. So really, it depends on what you are making and if the clay responds to what you are trying to do. If you find it, stick with it and maybe as you expand your ideas to new forms you may need a new clay.

 

Marcia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The way I've approached this (another newbie) is to find a clay body (or two) I like to work with and that suits my needs. What that meant for me is a nice throwing, not too groggy, cone 5-6 white stoneware and a more finicky cone 5-6 porcelain that can be thrown thin and be a bit translucent.

 

I love the look of porcelain, so am sticking to white clay bodies. Then vitrification temperature was my next criteria. From there it's all about the throwing and clay properties. Avoiding clays which people have said had issues with glaze fit--just looked for good basic clay people seem to be happy with. Then I think about goaze testing/finding nice glazes which play well with my firing temps and clay bodies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which Laguna clay did you find throws well for you? Laguna does provide some info for most of their clays which give a hint at how fussy glaze fit will be. Probably someone here who uses the same clay and could let you know how glazes fit on it. I would leave  the LL clay for now if you had problems throwing it, you can always come back to it later on when you have more throwing experience.

 

The other thing Laguna offers are sample boxes of 8 different clays in a 50lb box for 3 firing cones (10, 6 and 06). I don’t think most suppliers carry the sample boxes but they should be able to order it in for you. Saves spending a lot of money on buying 50lbs of clay you don’t like. Sample box (eastern clays) listed on page 26 of the pdf here: http://www.lagunaclay.com/catalog/pdf/lcc_prepclay.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Claylover :thanks I wish i could too. The one studio in town is way overbooked: the owner has a crazed scared look in his eye every time i try to get in. Nearest after that is 40 miles, might try it for summer. Otherwise i have a ceramics minor who i am waiting to finish classes.

 Min Thank you for lagunas list. I dont know why but the clay i got isnt on it. I got raes smooth a cone 5 tan grey clay.this is what i did with little loafers:

post-3117-0-60281100-1429717317_thumb.jpeg

They were so wonky that i attempted to trim them and made it worse.

This is what i did in 10 minutes max. maybe 5. I still have no clue, but it is a pot , right?

post-3117-0-23796500-1429717435_thumb.jpegpost-3117-0-90980400-1429717435_thumb.jpeg

So this is why i am asking: will i be able to always find clay that is so much easier than the first , or what questions do i ask , or will raes smooth always be like this?

post-3117-0-60281100-1429717317_thumb.jpeg

post-3117-0-23796500-1429717435_thumb.jpeg

post-3117-0-90980400-1429717435_thumb.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Axner joined with Laguna a few years back, I believe Rae's Smooth is an Axner made clay. 

 

From their website:

Characteristics
Cone: 5 
Wet Color: Gray 
Fire Color 
Oxidation: Gray/White 
Reduction: Gray 
Texture: Smooth 
Penetrometer Target: 7 
Avg. Shrinkage ±2%: 13% 
Avg. Water Absorption ±1%: 2% 
COE x 10-6: 6.85 

 

If you like Rae's then I would try some glaze tests on it plus check the water absorption. I would make up a bunch of test tiles and work on the glaze tests at the same time you are making pots. Nothing ever stays the same with clay, like John says test, test, test

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

miller-whitebanner50h.jpg WC‑607

#55 Clay   certified-nontoxic.gif  

Excellent off-white stoneware clay for wheel work. Minor speckling caused by fireclay enhances appearance. Used by many for functional pottery. Neutral glazes are not altered by clay body ingredients allowing for purer glaze color.

 

Price: 50 lbs. boxed @ $0.424/lb

Characteristics Cone:   6 Wet Color:   Gray Fire Color       Oxidation:   Light Buff   Reduction:   N/A Texture:   S-Fire Clay Consistency:   Standard Avg. Shrinkage 2±%   10.8% Avg. Water Absorption 1±%   1.9%

 

wc607.jpg

 

This is the Laguna clay I have used now for a year. Very pleased throwing and handbuilding with this clay. Plays well with glazes. When I need to open a bag first thing I do is hold the bag about waist high and drop it on one of the corners. Then rotate the bag and drop on the rest of the corners. This loosens the clay up a bit making wedging a little easier. The cone 6 fired color looks lighter than this picture shows.

 

Good luck and keep at it.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There isn't a straight forward answer to your question.  Actually, I re read your post several times and I think I got the gist of what you're asking...but I'm still not really sure.

It could be that your other clay was a bit hard and the new clay is softer, easier to work with.  Before, you were maybe frustrated and the clay was bothering your hands, so you took a break, and that made all the difference.  You came back to throwing with new vigor and focus.  The new clay probably is easier to throw with so I'd advise you to stick with it for a while to build your skills and confidence.  As your skill increases, you'll find yourself able to throw with most any clay if you decide to try different ones.  You will eventually want to find a couple that you enjoy working with and fit your requirements for color, cone, glaze fit, etc.

It's a long process.   Just remember to enjoy the journey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To amplify what Doris said, I think that often taking a break from clay results in a noticeable uptick in skill, and the transition from beginner to advanced beginner who can throw decent-looking pots is often something that results from small and subtle changes in your perceptions.

 

In the over 40 years I've been making clay, I've taken several breaks, sometimes for periods of years, and I always make better pots when I return to it.  I have all kinds of theories about why this should be, but it does really happen.  My current favorite theory is that your mind and body continue to make connections that you are not consciously aware of, and when you next put your hands on the clay, they just take advantage of those new connections.

 

In all likelihood, the clay is better for you, but don't discount the possibility that you are a better thrower as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"if i have too many clay bodies , i am bound to become more confused than i already am."

Easy to get confused with so many different materials and so many features to each one! That's not even counting the real-life firing results and other variables.

 

I make notes on everything, including my clay and glazes. I make a table in Word or Excel and just set up column headings for what I need to know. I start with the inventory (what I have on hand). For clay, I write down info similar to what dhPotter posted for the Miller #55 (including which supplier I purchased it from, since many carry the same stuff -- once I find the best deal I want to use that supplier--which I will NEVER "just remember". When I'm ready to plan, or work, I can reference my sheets and match what I want to use to the label on my bucket or container, without trying to remember everything in my head. The attention to detail on the front end pays off in the long run so I can follow a piece from conception to execution, and make informed decisions about any changes for the next go-round. Well, so far anyway...I'm just getting started--I may sing a different song in a few months LOL. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since I have never had more than 3 months away from clay since 69 I cannot speak to the theory that its gets better if you stop for spell.

I can say working with to many clay bodies as a beginner is a bad idea-learn one well before moving on to another.To many look for bodies before mastering the one they have.

Mark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree with Mark that beginners should not try to use too many bodies.  Of course, you have to find one you like, and that takes some experimentation, but once you get one that you do like, you should stick to it for a good long while.  And unless there's something about porcelain you just can't resist, put off experimenting with it until you get pretty good.  I've been throwing the same porcelain body exclusively for 25 years, and I still remember wistfully the white stoneware I used before that.  So much easier to work with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.