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I was in our local clay store a couple weeks ago and one of the people in the clay guild was in there. He was buying mixed glazes. I asked him why he didn't mix his own and he said he was too busy working on his work to be mixing glazes too.,

 

 I got home and was thinking about this

 

. My garage where I work looks like bomb went off in it.

 I have 31 actual buckets of glaze with mostly 4000 gm plus amounts of glaze in it. These are five gallon buckets.

 I have at least 17 premixed glazes in pt. jars.

 I have 15 pints of underglazes and a bunch of tiny jars of it too.

 I have all the schuff to make glazes. When I bought my first gas kiln which was basically a pile of bricks the seller had big bags of things like tin oxide, cobalt carbonate and oxide etc. I have bags of frits and clay in containers etc!!!!!!!!! This kiln was wonderful when it was assembled but the door had to be bricked in everytime I fired it.

 

 After taking a class with WONDERFUL John Britt, my friend Anna and I made tons of test tiles and fired about 600 of them.

 

 The clay things I make often have hours of handbuilding on top of the basic clay form. I not only need to get this stuff through the firing but then have to carefully put under glazes on with brushes maybe fire them again twice after the bisque. It takes lots of time to finish a piece. I make birdbaths and bird feeders, fountains etc with tons of work in them.

 

 Right now I have a really hard time getting in the garage and actually working because it is such a mess... I have a huge shelf of books specifically for design ideas. I look at the books while I wonder where I can put all the stuff to create a work surface.

 

 I have pretty bad arthritis so hand building is lots better for me.

 

 I have slump hump molds and find them quite useful around the holiday seasons so I can make less work intensive sales.

 

 I really enjoy making anything that pops into my head, wall clocks, light fixtures, wall pockets etc.

 

 The big question is: Where do you draw the line?

 

 B

 

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That guy isn't very good at time and money management. Premixed glazes are formulated for brushing, which takes 20 (40,50,100?) times longer to apply than dipping. A dip takes 6 seconds. Whatever time he would take mixing his own glazes would be more than made up for in the speed of application. And the money savings alone would allow him to make and sell fewer pots for the same profit margin, or would increase his profits. Plus his pots would be more unique if he developed his own palette. Foolish.

 

This reminds me of a conversation I had the other day with my merchant services provider. We were talking about monthly fees for mobile credit card processing, like everyone uses at art fairs. I was telling her about a neighbor I had at at fair a couple of years ago who was selling handmade felt hats for women. Her typical hat was $40, and she didn't take credit cards. She said she didn't want to pay the monthly fee or processing fee, that it was unfair. I saw her lose at least 4 sales the first day because the customer wanted to pay with a credit card. So to save less that $20 in fees, she lost out on $160 in sales. Foolish.

 

You gotta do the math!

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I have more glazes than I should. I have about 30 buckets. Sometimes I can't sell a certain colour- like right now Celadon is not a big seller. I have glazes that I am trying out, and will make 6,000 grams in a bucket and then I decide that I don't like it. This is after testing at 100 grams and a 1,000 grams. I also realize that my glaze lab takes up a lot of space in my studio. But I am known for my glazes. I have an amazing purple that I developed from another potter's reject glaze that didn't melt properly.

My studio is a mess, but it's MY mess. There are 120 mugs drying on tables. There is half of a terra cotta planter that I am going to make into a press mold. There is a metal fly wheel for a kick wheel that I am going to build-one day. It's my mess, but it's also my studio. I clean up, then I work and it gets messy. I do not have the personality to have everything organized. I have to see things, so I leave them out on a table.Every one is different. One person's mess is another person's organized studio.

I would never buy glazes in jars and paint them. Like Neil said-foolish.

TJR.

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I'd love to be in the position to make my own glazes, but available space, at this time, prevents it. My [so called] studio is a small 10'x12' shed that I share with my husband and all of his tools. For some of us, we don't really have the choice to house  multiple 5 gallon buckets of glaze, nor the raw materials in bulk.That doesn't make us foolish. It just means that we've learned to work within the confines of our environment. ;)

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I am going to sidestep the mess issue since I live in a big glass house .......

BUT ....

I have learned over the years that there are distinct areas of interest to potters ... clay, design, making, glazing, firing ... to name a few. The more you specialize in one area, the bigger it gets. You just don't have time to do all you want and as my buddy Tony Clennell likes to say. " You pick something up, you gotta put something down." So it does not surprise me that someone casts aside the area of learning to make glazes in order to focus on the area they enjoy.

No one is more surprised than me that I have spent 25 years ... Yikes! ... Learning about Mason stains and clay ... And have barely scratched the surface. I still have research on an article promised about how oxides can be used to ramp up the colors of stains. Not even started.

So yes, I buy my glazes and love that I am keeping a scientist employed.

And yes, I buy my clay and keep my suppliers in business.

Soon I might employ a camera guy to film a DVD .... It never ends.

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I'd love to be in the position to make my own glazes, but available space, at this time, prevents it. My [so called] studio is a small 10'x12' shed that I share with my husband and all of his tools. For some of us, we don't really have the choice to house  multiple 5 gallon buckets of glaze, nor the raw materials in bulk.That doesn't make us foolish. It just means that we've learned to work within the confines of our environment. ;)

 

I didn't mean to say that folks who use commercial glazes are foolish. My apologies if it sounded that way. For many people it's the best option. But for that guy to say he didn't have time to mix glazes was foolish.

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I'd love to be in the position to make my own glazes, but available space, at this time, prevents it. My [so called] studio is a small 10'x12' shed that I share with my husband and all of his tools. For some of us, we don't really have the choice to house  multiple 5 gallon buckets of glaze, nor the raw materials in bulk.That doesn't make us foolish. It just means that we've learned to work within the confines of our environment. ;)

 

I didn't mean to say that folks who use commercial glazes are foolish. My apologies if it sounded that way. For many people it's the best option. But for that guy to say he didn't have time to mix glazes was foolish.

 

 

That's what I assumed you meant Neil.  

 

I think it's fairly apparent, from previous discussions, no one looks down on anyone here.  Especially for how they come by their materials.  

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My studio is spread over one 3x3m  working space and 3 storage spaces and a whole 4 level bookshelf just for my pottery books.......so 'mess' is a relative term!

......but, truth is, if you're not using it, and have not used it for some time, and probably (truely!!) are not likely to use it.... then sell it!   More space and more cash is better than many, many 'maybe, one day I'll get to it' things cluttering up your space. It takes one weekend and one friend to get it done. Put it all on eBay or Craigslist and let some young ''eager beaver' enjoy the struggle of it....they're out there!

 

Mixing one wide firing clear with a 2 or 3 colour or texture modifications that you focus on for now is ok, you can change your modifications as you change your interests.....and if you want to buy premixed paint on glazes because it's easier and you really like the making part of the pottery process more than glazing, then do it, just factor in your extra cost and time as part of your regular work schedule.....focus on the parts of pottery that you really love and simplify the parts that don't hold your enthusiasm as much.  

 

The IDEA of making ''everything we want to'' is far more seductive than our actually getting around to MAKING ''everything we want to'',,,,,,so some honest self questioning, one friend and one weekend.............. 

 

Irene

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if you are t going to use it , get rid of it. If you don't love it , get rid of it. If making your own glaze is cost effective , then it is cost effective to throw it out , trade it, sell it. I know for me there are three kind of projects . First the ones I will get to come hell or high water, either cuz I love it or need to do it. Second are projects I want very much to do, but for whatever reasons, are hard to get to. Theses projects actually fuel me.the third are the ones that just give me guilt. They sit there and stare at me: I end up walking around them , not dating to confront. Usually I try to bury them under other junk or box them up . Now when I find them glaring at me , out they go. They are not joyful or productive. I find it much easier to be effect with junk out of the way.

All that being said, I quickly procure more of the buggers, I just learned to stop tripping over them for quite so long.

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I think one of the hardest things to do is to focus on just one thing. The older and wiser I get the easier this is becoming.

You have to know your limitations. I love all of the interesting glazes that you glaze gurus can come up with, but my heart is not in 600 fired test tiles.

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I'll address the mess.  As @TJR wrote, "It is MY mess" and I echo that sentiment.  With this last clean-up that has taken me away from making for almost a week now, I feel so much better about what is in the studio and what has either gone to the dumpster, been re-cycled, or is stored in a more organized way.  This was not your normal clean-up.  I classified this effort as a mass de-crapination...those old pack rat habits have to go when you do this.  My rule: If I haven't used it within the last two years, it does NOT belong in the studio.

 

At the university studio, 5 gal. glaze containers are an absolute necessity, but with the much lower level of production that I do (and I use production reluctantly), I have found that 2 gal. glaze container suit my needs very well...they take up a lot less space and are in a weight class that suits my physical capabilities. I rarely dip, so the larger containers make less sense for my work style.  I'll confess to one exception, I am using a lot more clear since under-glazes seem to be influencing me more and more...even then, a 3 or 4 ingredient clear recipe takes very little time or studio disruption to mix up.

 

-Paul

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I am going to sidestep the mess issue since I live in a big glass house .......

BUT ....

I have learned over the years that there are distinct areas of interest to potters ... clay, design, making, glazing, firing ... to name a few. The more you specialize in one area, the bigger it gets. You just don't have time to do all you want and as my buddy Tony Clennell likes to say. " You pick something up, you gotta put something down." So it does not surprise me that someone casts aside the area of learning to make glazes in order to focus on the area they enjoy.

No one is more surprised than me that I have spent 25 years ... Yikes! ... Learning about Mason stains and clay ... And have barely scratched the surface. I still have research on an article promised about how oxides can be used to ramp up the colors of stains. Not even started.

So yes, I buy my glazes and love that I am keeping a scientist employed.

And yes, I buy my clay and keep my suppliers in business.

Soon I might employ a camera guy to film a DVD .... It never ends.

 

 

Chris,

Funny you should mention how the areas of interest are larger. I have chemicals for glaze and clay mixing, but my interests are alternative firing. I have 2 different sized raku kilns and 3 electric kiln from a test kiln, Medium and a large oval. I use them depending on shapes and size needed.I am thinking of making another raku kiln to hold foil saggar pieces. 

Experimenting is something I love to do.

 

Marcia

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we do all make messes.  and think "someday i will use this" but it is a habit that leads to excess.  i am driving north in a few days and yesterday i finally got rid of the sink from an RV a neighbor had.  this albatross sat on a large shelf in my way for 4 years or more.  it is now at the local Habitat for Humanity Re-store.  maybe someone is really looking for a kitchen sink for an RV.

 

 this studio is only 10x16 feet and there is no room for the unlikely. :mellow:

 

there is barely room for the collection of probably 20 big platter forms that i have not used. (wow!  this one is almost too big for my 20 inch shelf!)   or the shelves full of low fire glazes i found at a supplier's sale of old stuff they did not want around.  (maybe that yellow will work at cone 6 and it is ONLY a dollar!)  and the pile of finished pots whose glaze did not quite get as thick a coating as it should.  (i can always spray on another coat and refire it.)  and that big container of Tom Coleman porcelain that has green stuff growing in it. (if i could only find someone who can fire it to cone 10 for me.)  and the pile of bucket lids for 5 gallon containers.  (i should really take them home to go with the 3 stacks of 5 gallon buckets in the kiln room.)  and the tall holder for CDs which is just the right size to hold my small bats.  (is should really use that pretty holder instead of just stacking them next to the wheel.)  

 

the kiln is cooling so i cannot go out and clean up anything right now.  (or ever????)

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I try to purge at least once a year, when I close the shop between Christmas and New Years. I try to do a summer purge, too, but it's harder to find the time then. I've got two big problems when it comes to keeping the place clean and organized. First,  I've got 1600 square feet, so I can always find a place to put something. Second, I've got students, so I often keep things thinking that they might need them. Plus I get a lot of abandoned stuff from former students. During the holiday shutdown I make every body take everything home so I can see what's been abandoned. It's shocking how much stuff people leave behind. I haven't bought a new trimming tool for myself in a few years.

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I'm with Tom-its my mess-I clean it twice a year to some degree-For me to work I need space that is open and free of stuff-tables for wares-I need this every week.

I'm focused and do not let non studio/ceramic items in the studio-the only exception is a 15 inch vice.

I work about 15 buckets of glaze and have another 6-10 under some tables. My space is 12x22 give or take

My glaze are is always set up-my green room (for throwing is just an area for green ware)I keep a ton of warm clay in shop under wedging tables-my sink area is always a busy area.-Items have thier place and always go back.

 

My suggestion is get focused draw the line and organize with shelves and keep your tables clear

Glazes you are never going to use dry out and get rid of.

Its hard for me to think like asa  hobbist and make whatever pops into my head-maybe this is part of it-make list of forms and make those in order.It sounds like focus is whats needed. Clean the gargae and restart fresh.

Concentrate on getting clear floor space.

I have to glaze two kiln loads today and load it for Saturdays fire-Thats all I am doing -no phone calls no side trips-focus.

Mark

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Ha Ha, everyone's showing up for this thread, U mentioned messy studio and boy can we all relate to that.

 

I started mixing glazes in 09 and progressed through scores (if not hundreds) of recipes and after several years had a pretty disjointed group of glazes with lots of glaring voids. Last year I filled these glaring omissions with a really nice pre-mixed palette of 20 dry mixes from a local supplier that has been in the area forever and the glazes are beautiful.

 

I buy 25lbs (about the same as my 10k batches) and each makes about 4 gallons. The average cost is $15-$20 a gallon so it's perfectly reasonable for us to use financially. No shipping as I pick them up when I buy clay. I am slowly tackling each purchased glaze with a replacement house glaze with the goal of slowly transitioning back to mostly house glazes over time. It's not the expense that pushes me to do this since glaze is cheap on a per piece basis no matter how you get it but rather its the need to eventually have all the glazes we are building our business on to be both always available and consistent. But I like doing it and I find it enjoyable to learn this part of pottery.

 

If you are thinking you are tired of doing this and it really isn't your thing anymore then I would recommend checking out the offerings that your local supplier has that the other potter was choosing from. If they have been around for a while this line might be really something special and since you already have all the buckets and tools to deal with dry glaze mix the transition would be a snap and then you can thin out some of the bulk materials and associated clutter and reduce your glaze making to just some of the more special ones that you cannot seem to find.

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My studio is spread over one 3x3m  working space and 3 storage spaces and a whole 4 level bookshelf just for my pottery books.......so 'mess' is a relative term!

......but, truth is, if you're not using it, and have not used it for some time, and probably (truly!!) are not likely to use it.... then sell it!   More space and more cash is better than many, many 'maybe, one day I'll get to it' things cluttering up your space. It takes one weekend and one friend to get it done. Put it all on eBay or Craigslist and let some young ''eager beaver' enjoy the struggle of it....they're out there!

 

Mixing one wide firing clear with a 2 or 3 colour or texture modifications that you focus on for now is ok, you can change your modifications as you change your interests.....and if you want to buy premixed paint on glazes because it's easier and you really like the making part of the pottery process more than glazing, then do it, just factor in your extra cost and time as part of your regular work schedule.....focus on the parts of pottery that you really love and simplify the parts that don't hold your enthusiasm as much.  

 

The IDEA of making ''everything we want to'' is far more seductive than our actually getting around to MAKING ''everything we want to'',,,,,,so some honest self questioning, one friend and one weekend.............. 

 

Irene

Irene, you seem to have hit the point exactly!

"The IDEA of making ''everything we want to'' is far more seductive than our actually getting around to MAKING ''everything we want to'',

 

Time for some prioritizing!

 

B

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I like this discussion.

 

I think most clay work can be broken down into two major components: form and surface.

 

Developing your own forms is almost inescapable, unless you buy commercial bisque or use commercial molds.

 

But developing your own surfaces is sort of optional.  You can certainly use glazes developed by other people to make original work; after all, few would complain that great painters don't mix their own pigments.

 

Still... one of the great pleasure of clay is developing your own surface treatments.  I'm something of a glaze junkie.  I test a lot of glazes and slips, and I do it not so much for any lofty esthetic goal, but because it's a lot of fun.  However, in order to maintain any horizontal surface in your studio, you have to steel yourself to immediately dispose of any tests you don't love.  I only continue the development of glazes that seem especially noteworthy to my eye, and which are especially suitable to my forms.

 

That said, I think one of the problems clay workers frequently develop is the use of too many glazes.  If you go to a really good juried show, where only the best potters will be seen, you will often notice that each of these potters has a fairly limited palette of color and surface texture.  Their pots usually will not display every color of the rainbow.  They are focussing more narrowly on what they want to accomplish when they make a pot.  I believe you only get very good at your craft when you learn to narrow your focus, and concentrate on getting really good at making a limited range of forms, and using a limited range of surface treatments.  If you spend your career going from one enthusiasm to the next, you are at risk of never getting very good at anything.  I should know, as this is one of my many personality defects.

 

Clay work is a particularly effective trap for people with my weaknesses.  Clay is protean; the possibilities are literally infinite when it comes to making forms.  With such a wealth of possibility inherent in the material, it is very difficult to focus on just one avenue of expression long enough to get very good at it.  My only saving grace is that I have always been interested exclusively in domestic ware, which by their nature limit the potter to certain forms and scale.  That approach also limits the scope of glaze experimentation, since many glazes suitable for sculpture are unsuitable and even dangerous when applied to domestic ware.

 

Anyway, I'll try to make this rant somewhat useful by observing that you can get an almost infinite range of effects from a very limited number of glazes and slips.  If you have, say, 4 glazes and 4 slips that work well with each other, you will probably never run out of new stuff to try, because these glazes and slips can be layered and combined in so many different ways, and with so many different application techniques, each of which will have an effect on the outcome of the surface you're working.  For example, I'm firing a test load now, and among the test tiles stuffed into the little kiln is one which I dipped into a blue slip containing extra titanium, and then quickly overdipped a green slip that has a fair amount of gerstley borate in it.  I combed the tile with a wooden comb while both slips were still wet and got a surface in which both colors were present along the comb lines.  I dip-glazed the piece with a semi-fluid titania glaze that picks up color from the slips, (and goes transparent over the green slip, because of the extra boron in it.)  Finally I sprayed some ash glaze along the top edge of the tile, and this ash glaze is one I've been working with for a while.  In the last firing I tested it using a subdued green stain, and while it was nice enough, I wasn't thrilled, so I modified it with a small amount of blue and some rutile to take the bright blue curse off the cobalt.

 

Anyway, the effect will be new to me, even though the glazes and slips are not, and it took only 4 buckets to do it.  Those same 4 buckets could be used to make an almost infinite number of surfaces, with a little imagination, and the potter who did it would learn an awful lot about the use of glazes, and his or her own ambitions, in the process.

 

Finally, I'll rail against the idea that making your own glazes is difficult or expensive.  One thing that always annoys the dickens out of me is to see a glaze that has 15 or 20 components, and all are detailed down to two decimal points.  It ain't necessary, folks.  If a glaze works with 6.23 percent talc. it'll work with 6 percent talc (and if it doesn't, it's a lousy glaze, not worth the effort.)  I'm currently working with slips that are just porcelain trimmings from the wheel, with colorants and other oxides added in small amounts, and they work great, as far as I can tell.  They fit my leatherhard pots perfectly, too.  It only takes a few pounds of various inexpensive things to make a perfectly useful glaze, and some folks make glazes out of stuff you can get at the hardware store or dig out of your backyard.  There are some truly magnificent glazes made out of nothing but wood ash and clay.

 

I guess I'm trying to say that with glazes, limitations are not problems.  They're assets.  I keep having to relearn this lesson, even though I first learned it long ago, when I spent a few years designing stained glass windows.  I realized then that the limited palette of glass and the manner in which modules could be combined were limitations that freed me from excessive experimentation, a vice I always suffered as a potter.  I could concentrate on the work of expression, clear-headed, not seduced by the endless possibilities of clay.  As a consequence, I was probably a better glass designer that I will ever be as a potter.

 

 

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I think one of the hardest things to do is to focus on just one thing. The older and wiser I get the easier this is becoming.

You have to know your limitations. I love all of the interesting glazes that you glaze gurus can come up with, but my heart is not in 600 fired test tiles.

I know mine either. The problem was changing from cone 10 reduction to cone 6 oxidation. We moved from Oregon to North Carolina and my gas kiln rattled to death on the trip. It is hard to get gas in NC and we have been living in a rental for five years.

 I am not dead yet and refuse to give up!!

 

B

(aka Maddmudder, aka Bethbw13

Had some serious puter problems)

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we do all make messes.  and think "someday i will use this" but it is a habit that leads to excess.  i am driving north in a few days and yesterday i finally got rid of the sink from an RV a neighbor had.  this albatross sat on a large shelf in my way for 4 years or more.  it is now at the local Habitat for Humanity Re-store.  maybe someone is really looking for a kitchen sink for an RV.

 

 this studio is only 10x16 feet and there is no room for the unlikely. :mellow:

 

there is barely room for the collection of probably 20 big platter forms that i have not used. (wow!  this one is almost too big for my 20 inch shelf!)   or the shelves full of low fire glazes i found at a supplier's sale of old stuff they did not want around.  (maybe that yellow will work at cone 6 and it is ONLY a dollar!)  and the pile of finished pots whose glaze did not quite get as thick a coating as it should.  (i can always spray on another coat and refire it.)  and that big container of Tom Coleman porcelain that has green stuff growing in it. (if i could only find someone who can fire it to cone 10 for me.)  and the pile of bucket lids for 5 gallon containers.  (i should really take them home to go with the 3 stacks of 5 gallon buckets in the kiln room.)  and the tall holder for CDs which is just the right size to hold my small bats.  (is should really use that pretty holder instead of just stacking them next to the wheel.)  

 

the kiln is cooling so i cannot go out and clean up anything right now.  (or ever????)

 

 

Old Lady,

Linda and Charlie Riggs and myself also use Coleman porcelain for saggar firings. You can use it there. Don't throw it away. I built more shelves in the garage and moved things I don't use often. I do throw out things I don't need. Yet my geeky husband calls me, "my wife, the dumpster diver" . I picked up some very usable copper wire from the inside of a dishwasher in the trash as well as a discarded stove on the street.. I will "skin" it when my husband and I sit outside before dinner enjoying the cool afternoon shade.

Marcia

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