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Please Help, I Don't Know Whats Best To Buy!


sparklingmango

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Are you sure you need a nine hour controlled cool? Is that specific to the recipe for faience you are using? Out of curiosity, I checked to see if others had info on cooling and found no references to firing cycles. But I did find a couple links you might find interesting:

 

https://egyptmanchester.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/curators-diary-26512-making-ancient-egyptian-faience/

 

http://www.amywallerpottery.com/faience

Sorry I am confusing the issue.

My piece needs to be fired of a total of 9 hours at 900 degrees. I have confused something up I think, I need to look it up again.

 

Yes, I have spent a day with a Dr who is specializes in Egyptian faience and he has explained the process to me. But I've confused myself somewhere about the firing cycle like you said, my notes from our conversation just say "900 degrees full temp ideally. 100 degrees per hour) ?

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Before buying from a third party, check with the kiln manufacturer or distributor to see if the kiln will work with non-EFCO controllers.

 

From their website, it looks like either the regulator or controller are your options. The controller would allow you to program a temperature climb of 100 degrees per hour; the regulator would not unless you also had a thermocouple that read the temperature. Controlling the rate of temperature increase makes more sense than controlling the cooling period.

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Assuming the kiln has an infinity switch, you could fire with a cone pack. Likely ~cone 010. Some of the wood fired faience projects suggest soaking for ~1 hour. You mentioned you don't have too large of a budget, a cheaper option would be building one of these small wood or coal fired kilns, with or without a pyrometer. Either way, you may want to double check the firing details to be sure of what you need your kiln to do.

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This should work with your kiln. The SYL-2342P doesn't come with a thermocouple, so you'd have to buy one. Make sure it fits the hole in your kiln. You'd also have to wire a cable to connect the controller to the wall socket, and remove the plug on the kiln to connect it to the controller.

 

A ramp/soak controller is just a controller with the capability to control the power to the kiln in such a way that the temperature rises at a set rate to a given temperature, then is held constant for a set time.

On the other hand, if firing at 100 degrees an hour isn't essential, I would use a regulator set to a very low power output (given that the kiln reaches 900 degrees in only 25 minutes on full power). You'd also need either a pyrometer to monitor the temperature, or pyrometric cones and welder's glasses to know when to switch off the kiln. It may take some trial and error to get it right if you try this.

 

 

I also ordered an Auber controller recently, although I got the SYL-2342P instead. It's basically the same as the version Rob mentioned, except that the output is to control a  relay instead of an SSR. It'll take a while to get here, so I can't give a recommendation yet, but with this version you'll be able to connect your kiln directly to the controller, rather than having to get an SSR that the controller switches on and off.

The ramp/soak ones seem to be more complicated to program than the ones that just keep the temperature constant, but these notes I found may make things easier.

Thanks for the message. 

Ok, this looks interesting. I understand it is a built in relay, a thermocouple, a temp control and a ramp/soaker? Would this be suitable for my kiln EFCO 110 do you know? I need to achieve a temperature of 900 degrees for 9 hours with a cool down of 100 degrees every hour? Would I be able to do it with the link you sent? This price seems good. I don't have a lot of money to invest in this so ideally I am looking for something that is £100 less. I have been in contact with someone on eBay who is selling all of this and she has suggested I by a ramp/soaker as well. But this is $200. 

 

 

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This should work with your kiln. The SYL-2342P doesn't come with a thermocouple, so you'd have to buy one. Make sure it fits the hole in your kiln. You'd also have to wire a cable to connect the controller to the wall socket, and remove the plug on the kiln to connect it to the controller.

 

A ramp/soak controller is just a controller with the capability to control the power to the kiln in such a way that the temperature rises at a set rate to a given temperature, then is held constant for a set time.

 

On the other hand, if firing at 100 degrees an hour isn't essential, I would use a regulator set to a very low power output (given that the kiln reaches 900 degrees in only 25 minutes on full power). You'd also need either a pyrometer to monitor the temperature, or pyrometric cones and welder's glasses to know when to switch off the kiln. It may take some trial and error to get it right if you try this.

 

 

I also ordered an Auber controller recently, although I got the SYL-2342P instead. It's basically the same as the version Rob mentioned, except that the output is to control a  relay instead of an SSR. It'll take a while to get here, so I can't give a recommendation yet, but with this version you'll be able to connect your kiln directly to the controller, rather than having to get an SSR that the controller switches on and off.

 

The ramp/soak ones seem to be more complicated to program than the ones that just keep the temperature constant, but these notes I found may make things easier.

Thanks for the message. 

 

Ok, this looks interesting. I understand it is a built in relay, a thermocouple, a temp control and a ramp/soaker? Would this be suitable for my kiln EFCO 110 do you know? I need to achieve a temperature of 900 degrees for 9 hours with a cool down of 100 degrees every hour? Would I be able to do it with the link you sent? This price seems good. I don't have a lot of money to invest in this so ideally I am looking for something that is £100 less. I have been in contact with someone on eBay who is selling all of this and she has suggested I by a ramp/soaker as well. But this is $200. 

 

 

 

 

Cool.  Yeah I think I need a type K thermocouple. 

 

Would you suggest getting all of this equipment? 

 

Yeah totally, I think it just going to be trail and error until I find the right firing cycle. I have several recipes and and possible firing temperatures. 

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Assuming the kiln has an infinity switch, you could fire with a cone pack. Likely ~cone 010. Some of the wood fired faience projects suggest soaking for ~1 hour. You mentioned you don't have too large of a budget, a cheaper option would be building one of these small wood or coal fired kilns, with or without a pyrometer. Either way, you may want to double check the firing details to be sure of what you need your kiln to do.

my original idea was to build a kiln but I do not own the house I live in, so I didn't really want to build one. Hense, why I bought an unused second hand EFCO KILN 110, for £125.

 

 

my kiln does not have an infinity switch. Although these cones look pretty useful. Do you have to have an infinity switch to use these cones?

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The SYL-2352 P would work well for you except you cannot plug directly or wire into this controller.  Its relay output is for 7 amps max your kiln comes with a 13 amp plug and cord.  You will need an external relay plus a high temp. type K thermocouple with extension wire, a box to install every thing into and a receptacle for the kiln to plug into and a cord with plug to plug into the wall. Why go to all this trouble when the KCR2 controller for this EFCO 110 kiln does it all for you.  Doesn't the college or university offer some help in money to pay for this?

David

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David, according to this website, the EFCO 110 draws 6 amps on 220 V, so should be able to be wired directly to the SYL-2342P (not the SYL-2352P). I'll take a bit more work to connect and program, but even with the thermocouple and extension wire it should come out at less than half the price of the KCR2 controller.

SparklingMango, if you want to fire with a regulator and cones / pyrometer, I'd try find out from someone who's fired Egyptian paste how important the speed of firing is. I don't know much about this, but you could contact the authors of some of the blogs people have linked to above. The fact that your kiln doesn't have an infinity switch isn't a problem, as long as you get a regulator that has one.

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David, according to this website, the EFCO 110 draws 6 amps on 220 V, so should be able to be wired directly to the SYL-2342P (not the SYL-2352P). I'll take a bit more work to connect and program, but even with the thermocouple and extension wire it should come out at less than half the price of the KCR2 controller.

 

SparklingMango, if you want to fire with a regulator and cones / pyrometer, I'd try find out from someone who's fired Egyptian paste how important the speed of firing is. I don't know much about this, but you could contact the authors of some of the blogs people have linked to above. The fact that your kiln doesn't have an infinity switch isn't a problem, as long as you get a regulator that has one.

Thanks for the advice.

 

I emailed the company selling SYL-2342P and they suggest I pick this one too. 

 

I also emailed Ms Amy Waller yesterday and I received a replay this morning. She was really helpful. Ms Waller said in her experience she has fired at cone 02 but cone 07 and cone 10 are plausible. 

 

 It's getting somewhere...)  :huh:

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This doesn't have ramp/soak capabilities, so you won't be able to control how fast the temperature rises (although you can keep it at a constant temperature once it gets there). Also, I'm a little confused about the temperature range. It gives both -50C to 1300C, and 0C to 400C as temperature ranges.

Unfortunately, ramp/soak controllers tend to be more expensive, and I don't think you'll find anything much cheaper than the one from Auber Instruments. It's still a better deal than any controllers designed exclusively for kilns, provided you don't mind the extra work needed to program it.

I though getting a regulator might be a cheaper option (though with less control), but the regulator EFCO makes is 120 Euros. Unless you can find something significantly cheaper, I'd go with the Auber SYL-2342P.

By the way, there's a big difference between cone 10 and cone 010. For some reason cone manufacturers decided to use a zero in front of a cone number when a minus sign would have made more sense. In other words, in order of increasing temperature, cone numbers go ...03, 02, 01, 1, 2, 3,... Don't ask me why there isn't a cone 0.

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This doesn't have ramp/soak capabilities, so you won't be able to control how fast the temperature rises (although you can keep it at a constant temperature once it gets there). Also, I'm a little confused about the temperature range. It gives both -50C to 1300C, and 0C to 400C as temperature ranges.

 

Unfortunately, ramp/soak controllers tend to be more expensive, and I don't think you'll find anything much cheaper than the one from Auber Instruments. It's still a better deal than any controllers designed exclusively for kilns, provided you don't mind the extra work needed to program it.

 

I though getting a regulator might be a cheaper option (though with less control), but the regulator EFCO makes is 120 Euros. Unless you can find something significantly cheaper, I'd go with the Auber SYL-2342P.

 

By the way, there's a big difference between cone 10 and cone 010. For some reason cone manufacturers decided to use a zero in front of a cone number when a minus sign would have made more sense. In other words, in order of increasing temperature, cone numbers go ...03, 02, 01, 1, 2, 3,... Don't ask me why there isn't a cone 0.

Ok thanks for the advice.

 

I have a question regarding the thermocouple, do you know which connection option I would need? mini connector or space connector?

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Order the spade lug connection for the thermocouple, actually you only need bare wire to connect to the controller, make sure the red wire of the thermocouple goes to the minus input #5.  If the power wiring to your kiln is larger than 18 to 26 gauge than you will need a relay because you will not be able to connect directly to the output terminals because the wire will be too big.  That is why I suggested using a relay.

David

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This doesn't have ramp/soak capabilities, so you won't be able to control how fast the temperature rises (although you can keep it at a constant temperature once it gets there). Also, I'm a little confused about the temperature range. It gives both -50C to 1300C, and 0C to 400C as temperature ranges.

 

Unfortunately, ramp/soak controllers tend to be more expensive, and I don't think you'll find anything much cheaper than the one from Auber Instruments. It's still a better deal than any controllers designed exclusively for kilns, provided you don't mind the extra work needed to program it.

 

I though getting a regulator might be a cheaper option (though with less control), but the regulator EFCO makes is 120 Euros. Unless you can find something significantly cheaper, I'd go with the Auber SYL-2342P.

 

By the way, there's a big difference between cone 10 and cone 010. For some reason cone manufacturers decided to use a zero in front of a cone number when a minus sign would have made more sense. In other words, in order of increasing temperature, cone numbers go ...03, 02, 01, 1, 2, 3,... Don't ask me why there isn't a cone 0.

Hey Pieter. 

 

I never noticed the link to the EFCO regulator. This is only £20 more than the one I would get. Could you please explain to meet if this regulator can do the same as the SYL-2342P? I am thinking of getting the EFCO regulator now because I am concerned about all the wiring.

 

Thanks 

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The EFCO regulator only lets you control the power output of the kiln, so you can fire it at less than full power (by power I mean average power, since it switches on and off, and you control the percentage of time it's on). The SYL-2342P controller, or any ramp/soak controller, lets you specify exactly what rate of temperature rise you want. It also gives a temperature reading, which the regulator doesn't.

 

If you set the regulator to a fixed output, the rate of temperature increase won't be constant, but will slow down as you reach your top temperature. I don't think this matters that much though. If you need to soak the kiln at your top temperature, i.e. keep the temp approximately constant, you'd need a pyrometer, rather than using cones, so you can see what the temp is. Hopefully you'll be able to do this without having to constantly switch between settings. I'm not sure if you'll need a soak, but it's possible.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the wiring if you know someone who's handy (but then, I haven't wired the SYL-2342P myself yet). I suppose the difference between the EFCO regulator and Auber controller, apart from price, boils down to "easy to set up, but more work figuring out how to fire", vs "harder to set up, but total control over the firing".

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The EFCO regulator only lets you control the power output of the kiln, so you can fire it at less than full power (by power I mean average power, since it switches on and off, and you control the percentage of time it's on). The SYL-2342P controller, or any ramp/soak controller, lets you specify exactly what rate of temperature rise you want. It also gives a temperature reading, which the regulator doesn't.

 

If you set the regulator to a fixed output, the rate of temperature increase won't be constant, but will slow down as you reach your top temperature. I don't think this matters that much though. If you need to soak the kiln at your top temperature, i.e. keep the temp approximately constant, you'd need a pyrometer, rather than using cones, so you can see what the temp is. Hopefully you'll be able to do this without having to constantly switch between settings. I'm not sure if you'll need a soak, but it's possible.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the wiring if you know someone who's handy (but then, I haven't wired the SYL-2342P myself yet). I suppose the difference between the EFCO regulator and Auber controller, apart from price, boils down to "easy to set up, but more work figuring out how to fire", vs "harder to set up, but total control over the firing".

It is more about the programming of the SYL-2342P (sorry I should have said that in my last message). I think the wiring would be ok - like I said, my boyfriend is pretty handy at this.

 

Ok, so... if I purchase the EFCO controller, I can only determine how much power is going into the kiln and how long for? but if I buy a pyrometer along with the EFCO I can see what temperature it is at? and would I need to purchase anything else?

 

The EFCO temp regulator seems very straight forward to use and to connect to the kiln. 

 

I want to make sure I make the right choice, its very difficult because of my lack of knowledge on the subject. I mean my kiln fires up to 900 degrees anyway (well it says different in different things) and this is the max I need for my faience project. 

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The Auber controller seems to be quite popular with home-brewers, so you'd be able to get advice about programming on a number of home-brewing forums. Auber instruments also have their own forum. But it's up to you if you want the extra hassle.

 

Ok, so... if I purchase the EFCO controller, I can only determine how much power is going into the kiln and how long for? but if I buy a pyrometer along with the EFCO I can see what temperature it is at?

 

Yes, pretty much. If you set the EFCO regulator so that it alternates between being on for 30 seconds and off for 10 seconds, you're using 75% power on average (just an example, not sure what time period the regulator actually uses). If you use a pyrometer and keep track of how the temperature progresses, you'll be able to calculate the rate of temperature rise, and can then adjust the regulator as needed. I don't think it'll be necessary to do this more than a few times during the firing, if at all, but I don't have any experience firing kilns your size or using regulators, so this is just a guess.

 

and would I need to purchase anything else?

 

Don't think so - maybe get some cones just to be able to keep track of the heat work done in each firing. I'd do this even if you got the Auber controller.

 

 

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If you want to read temperature than a type K thermocouple and analog meter would help.  The thermocouple you inquired about the spade lug connection would work.  You could also go to where you bought the kiln and get there analog meter and thermocouple that fits this kiln.  You will have to find out if you can reach the temperature you want, rapidly without harming your paste. The regulator acts like an infinite switch so that you can slow down how fast the kiln heats up by changing the pulses of current to the kiln, but would require babysitting if you have to follow a ramp to temperature. If you have to ramp the temperature than you will need the ramp/soak controller.

David

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Hi , can you send yours back and get this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Rapidfire-Digital-Programmable-Controller-Beadmaking/dp/B00CUKD1UY/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

It is less money than yours after you add the other stuff and it comes programable. I am assuming that you spent 302 pounds on yours. This unit , even if you added 50 pound for tax and shipping , would come out to 365 pounds all told. You would have to adapt it for 240 volt, and I don't know if that is difficult for a high powered item, but it seems much easier if it is possible. Or if you can return yours, perhaps see if this manufacturer sells in Europe .

Jolie

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If you want to read temperature than a type K thermocouple and analog meter would help.  The thermocouple you inquired about the spade lug connection would work.  You could also go to where you bought the kiln and get there analog meter and thermocouple that fits this kiln.  You will have to find out if you can reach the temperature you want, rapidly without harming your paste. The regulator acts like an infinite switch so that you can slow down how fast the kiln heats up by changing the pulses of current to the kiln, but would require babysitting if you have to follow a ramp to temperature. If you have to ramp the temperature than you will need the ramp/soak controller.

David

Hi David.

 

So if I purchased the analog meter and thermcouple they would read the temperature?

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