porcelainbyAntoinette Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Good morning everyone and happy New Year. I am gathering information to put my hand to the making of a pure white porcelain clay body. At this stage I am looking for the whitest burning materials available in the USA. Any information and where to get it will be most appreciated. Thanks. Antoinette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Grolleg. And new zeland. Ok. Not USA epk. And tile 6. I'm playing with adding grolleg to epk in small amounts to replace epk to get whiter porcelain. Depending on on how much of a purist you are.... What ball clay or other clay you add to mix is important along with plasticizer. Eg bentonite vee gum .... Other How white do you need it. It's relative..... Some literature will say epk which us product is pretty dang white. The epk mine is in forth Florida but pratically any clay supplier will have it. Tile six is from Georgia. Also available from most suppliers Is this for cone 6. 10. Wood , salt, celadon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 C & C ball clay is really white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 You might want to get in touch with Bryan Hopkins ... His porcelain is the iciest white I have seen. Cold white. http://www.hopkinspottery.com/Home_Page.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcelainbyAntoinette Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Thanks Chris, I'll connect with him. I am firing to cone 10. I see however that he is firing in reduction, while I fire electric. It makes a huge difference in the end. My biggest surprise was SI pieces that I fired in reduction that came out with a warm speckle. I do not know too much about gas kilns and was not in control of the firing, but I do think gas makes porcelain lean more towards a bluish white. I guess the best way to describe what I want is a neutral white, not blue or yellow, but really ice- like. I know Jon Singer made a clay that he let me test some years back, so it is possible to make it here in the USA. Where can I find a sample of C&C Ball clay? I do have Vee gum T and I recall working with it some years back, but did not document anything about it. I tried to load a sample SI in reduction without success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 i can mail you a small amount if you will send me your address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Working in oxidation will make this a little easier for you, since minor impurities won't have as big an impact as in reduction. If you want 'true' porcelain, avoid ball clay altogether. But if you prefer the feel of a white stoneware, then go for it. VeeGum T is an excellent plasiticizer for porcelain, and won't affect the color. Make sure you blunge it in water first before adding it to the mix. In general, the glassier the porcelain, the whiter it will be. However the glassier it gets, the more problems it will have. Too glassy and it will slump or warp in the firing. It can also have plasticity problems, where attachments tend to pull away or pop off. Personally, I'm more concerned with the workability of the clay body rather than how white and glassy it is, since I cover everything with glazes anyway. Most good commercial porcelains are quite white and acceptable to me. I use Standard 365 cone 6 grolleg porcelain, but they also make a cone 10 version. It is not as glassy as some porcelains I have used in the past, but I have virtually no warping and cracking problems. Why do you want to make your own? Have you not been able to find an acceptable clay body from commercial suppliers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcelainbyAntoinette Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thank you oldlady, I would love to get a sample. My address: 105 West wood circle, Saltillo MS 38866. I do have v-gum in my studio Neil. Thanks for your comments. I could not find a equivalent porcelain body other that SI that suits all my needs. I do not need a very plastic clay body, since I am a carver and do not have a problem to throw short clay. I work thin and very translucent. You ask why I want to develop my own clay body: I wish I could avoid it, but the lemonade from the lemons is: If I can develop a clay body that suit my needs, maybe it will serve a purpose for others too and maybe a clay developer will take it over from me. I just wish clay developers will not put all the plasticizes in.......that will be a great beginning......... Thank you Chris, I did contact Bryan Hopkins and he was very helpful. As soon as I have a chance, I will start putting some ingredients together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I do have v-gum in my studio Neil. Thanks for your comments. I could not find a equivalent porcelain body other that SI that suits all my needs. I do not need a very plastic clay body, since I am a carver and do not have a problem to throw short clay. I work thin and very translucent. You ask why I want to develop my own clay body: I wish I could avoid it, but the lemonade from the lemons is: If I can develop a clay body that suit my needs, maybe it will serve a purpose for others too and maybe a clay developer will take it over from me. I just wish clay developers will not put all the plasticizes in.......that will be a great beginning......... The vast majority of clay users require plasticity. That's why they put the plasticizers in. They could easily make a non-plastic porcelain body just for sculptors and carvers, but it would not be worth their time and space to keep it in stock. We are at the mercy of business. That said, most clay companies would be happy to make a custom batch for you from your recipe any time. You'd just have to buy an entire batch. Best of luck in your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 will get it in the mail this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 doesnt a custom batch = 2000 ish pounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 cone ten ...... electric? do yiu have a base recioe or idea of a recipe that you are working from? how are you making body? stainless mixer? have you made clay? there is a cushing recipe wothout ball clay ive been eye balling....... i have some experiments with vee gum t ..... promising.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcelainbyAntoinette Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Biglou I have a good bit of experience in clay making. Funny that you ask. In the early 1990's I had a factory in south Africa. I had 4 throwers ( all men) and 16 other people working for me. One day my clay mixing person did not turn up for work and we were out of clay. My pug mill was manual and could only mix one ton clay per day. That day I mixed and pugged 1 ton clay woman alone......... I do not have any equipment for clay making here in Mississippi. My plan is to do tests first and the decide what to do next. If needed I will buy a pug mill, but if I can contract it out, to a clay maker that will be the better route for me to go. I mixed and used a grolleg porcelain before. Worked well for my earlier work. For now the closest to the SI that I worked with is Frost, that is the final product, but Frost does not carve well, so, unless someone comes up with a miracle, I will continue to use SI until it disappear( I understand it is not available in Europe any more), but in the meantime work towards something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 big lou, look at the website for the kind of work antoinette does. it should blow you away. antoinette, i have two boxes of frost and want to make things that are not carved but with various thicknesses added and stamped. i have not found a recipe for a glaze that will work on frost. have only heard about it being tricky to glaze. did you find that to be true? i want a white matte that only adds a more easily washable skin, not something for functional ware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 not alot can or will replace grolleg ive been playing with subbing out portion of other us made porcelain with grolleg until i get a resonable white. approaching helios white. which is a grolleg based clay. i envious with ability to make 1 ton of clay.............. and no need for us to preach the minutia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb001 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Old lady, are you using cone 6 or cone 10 frost (can't remember for sure, but think there's a cone 10)? I was working with cone 6 frost before I packed up my studio several years ago. Unfortunately all is still packed up, including my recipes, but I didn't find it particularly hard to develop glazes for--tried many of the tried and true recipes I could find online and most worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 grolleg and new zeland all avaialble in US =but pricy $$$$$$ EPK mine is about 1 hour away from local. easliy had up to ton bulk bag on pallet tile 6 from georgia? there is a kaolin that started in NC, and washed down to the south via aluvial process. ive gotten epk (primarily) based clays go pretty dang white and translucent with minimal tweaking. but antionet you are much more expericened with pocelain than ill ever be...... ( i hope to be) im anxious to see where this goes i sent you pm with some notes i have acesss to cone 10 but too busy buildidng kiln to mess with clay. ( but i eventually will) how are you firing cone 10 electric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leola Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Did you try Witgert mont blanc porcelain clay? I use this clay and it is ultra white and also translucent. I love it a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Did you try Witgert mont blanc porcelain clay? I use this clay and it is ultra white and also translucent. I love it a lot! Where do you buy it? Is it Cone 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeU Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I to am interested in porcelains/sculptural--- what is "SI"? Chris-here is a link to a supplier (headquarters in Germany), but I don't see the Mont Blanc listed (as such). I saw it mentioned somewhere as #11, and they do list Throwing body white (W.11) w/o grog 1000-1300 http://www.keramik-kraft.com/US/Clay/Porcelain-Clays/Porcelain-Clay-Bodies.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudslinger Ceramics Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 LeeU, SI is 'Southern Ice' a very white porcelain made as C10 or as 'Cool Ice' at C6. Antoinette, I have used a bonechina not-very-plastic body for it's ultra-whiteness. vile for throwing and damn sensitive in firing but slipcast or smaller sculptures were just magical! in their stark alabaster whiteness. I'm in Australia and it's available as a special order slip but I have the'plastic' body made specially for me every now and again, so beautiful, so expensive! - I use it for jewellery and treat it like gold. Have you tried bonechina? Irene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leola Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Witgert Mont Blanc porcelain clay max firing temp. is 1300 Celsius. The company is German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leola Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 This is their website: http://www.witgert.de/en/witgert/fr_tone.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyne Schoenmann Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I used Witgert too because I can buy it here in Switzerland. Don't know whether you can buy it in the U.S. too... Still love the S.I. much better! lala: would you be so kind as to fill in your profile? I'm curious to know where you live. Thank you! Evelyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leola Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Dear Evelyne, I updated my profile a bit. I'm from The Netherlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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