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vinks

Food For Thought - E - Course!

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Why cannot we have online e courses from this forum.Though just browsing through this ceramics forum provides all the information and  learning.

Even  various forms like DVD,books, videos availability is immense,still it will be more useful if anyone can start off with e-courses on chargeable basis comprising from handbuilding to wheel throwing,which could run for a month or extended period,as per suitability.

 

I have attended e courses online from famous artist "Diana Fayt" and "Antoinette".It was pleasure to learn from them the various techniques.

 

It's helpful to people like us, who live in different corners of world and difficult to travel to attend workshops.These online courses will provide more opportunities to learn more and communicate .

 

 

Just a food for thought...any inputs most welcome.Me will be the first one to enroll for e courses.

 

 

Best Wishes!

Vinks!

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I wonder if we could just get a few threads going that would function as a free e-course or two.  If someone chimed in with a topic of expertise they wanted to share, we could almost structure it like a workshop or something--someone demonstrating a technique, and a few of us following along, posting photos of our own progress with the technique for critique.  Maybe it wouldn't work due to a lack of formal structure, but it could be fun to try.

Evelyne Schoenmann likes this

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you know, Potters Council has a mentoring program. Did you know that?Two weeks ago I asked for suggestions for the Potters Council Board to work on new benefits. Is this something forum members want?I think not many forum members are Potters Council members. I could be wrong. It is an open forum.

In such a venue meaning this forum, I think it would be difficult to hold e-classes. However, some have previously mentioned web-in-air sessions.

These would probably not be totally free because of the cost of setting them up, techies,teachers, etc etc.

I can see if we can discuss this at an outreach committee meeting.How many forum members would be willing to join the Potters Council to have access to such a benefit?

 

 

Marcia

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Marcia,me aware that Potters Council has a mentoring program.When we enroll we do get an oppurtunity to avail this mentoring programme.

 

My suggestion is for online  e - course where there will be a class / group,whereas in Mentoring its one to one.Forsure doubts can be cleared ,but invariably thru e courses we can learn many concepts and divide eg from : Beginner course/Intermediate and further on.

 

Modules could be set up.

 

Further its just a food for thought.Thru this learning process we could be able to explore more,thru sharing in this kind of platform.I did mentioned it could be on chargeable basis.

 

Vinks

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Personally, I can't conceive what I'd have to charge individuals if I decided I wanted to do the on-line equivalent of teaching my Ceramic Materials course at the college!  Potters are notorious at squeezing a nickel to get pennies out... and I'd bet that few would want to pay what would be necessary to actually cover the amount of time it would take me to put that kind of thing together at a professional enough level that I'd be comfortable with it.

 

And I am constantly tweaking the course every semester... so it is not something that could get totally "canned" and just spit out over and over and over.  So while some parts could get reused.... there'd be constant re-doing of segments and such. The technological aspects of it add a whole new dimension of time and expense.

 

Online webinars are an expensive and time consuming thing to put on professionally. 

 

Plus some subjects lend themselves to the online learning environment... and some things don't really lend themselves to that approach.  For example I COULD teach my "History of Japanese Ceramics" BFA course in an online format.  But that would be FAR different in outcomes than what I do in the classroom.  Sometimes in class I bring in pieces from my collection when we are talking about a particular Era or ware (like passing around a 7000 year old Jomon piece).  Or when discussing the genesis of the Tea Ceremony and the horrible samurai's life that contributed to the wabi-sabi aesthetic and the huge interest in Zen, by bringing in my bokken (wooden Iaido swords) and having students simply stand there facing one another holding the swords "at the ready" and showing them at a true "gut" level...... how in an instant.... they can be dead.  THAT stuff can not happen on-line.

 

I can't IMAGINE anyone with serious competency and reputation in a particular field wanting to do it for free.

 

best,

 

........................john

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There is a difference between posting a series of step-by-step photos with explanation and an interactive series of presentations, followed by students doing the lessons and then having individual follow-up sessions with the instructor and student -- which is the way I understand Antoinette's porcelain workshops work. I recall Simon Leach tried to do individual tutoring via Skype at one point, don't know what interest he got or if he still does it (one problem he encountered was the camera reversing images in the small screens, right-hand throwers appeared left-handed on the screen).

Marcia Selsor and JBaymore like this

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Tyler,

 

Yup.... and personally I think they are crazy.  Generous...... but crazy. ;)

 

Those of us in the arts tend to be our own worst enemies when it comes to making any money.  We tend to undervalue our own skills, price our work based upon our own economic circumstances and history, and (laudable... but won't pay the bills) are generous to a fault with information and time.  And often give stuff away for free.

 

Look at glaze recipes and clay body recipes and ways of making certain forms and such.  In many industries...... that kind of information would be considered "trade secrets" and would be considered a valued part of what makes the saleable product.

 

We go around sharing this stuff freely.  So we are nuts too. ;):blink::rolleyes:;)

 

best,

 

.......................john

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Bruce, that's true, but in reality that's how that forum functions.  

 

In the design and critique forums less experienced members post their projects to get input into them.  And if you look at those threads, it's not often, but you'll sometimes see a few questions from new people.  Also, the same site puts out a free e-seminar every year the "Arctic fire' invitational hammer in, where a live broadcast and live tweeted questions were brought together to form a two day course.  You could buy the video on DVD afterward and I think still can?  Ads on the live stream feed and dvd sales helped fund the project.

 

There are plenty of ways to monetize free.

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I belong to a subscription site for Chinese brush painting. http://chinesebrushpainting.ning.com/Henry posts a new lesson each month and also offers pdf files with instructions. Subscribers can send images of work back for critique. Yes, it can be done. Don't think this forum is right venue, though. If ACERS or someone sees a potential for $$$, you might see a separate track . . . like glaze recipes for $$$.

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Jumping into the deep water of online courses (e-courses) is a very ambitious project.  Even with the advent of easier Learning Management Systems (Google Classroom, Moodle, etc.) it still requires a significant amount of energy, time, and investment to do it well.  With the geographic diversity that I see on the forum, synchronous sessions would seem impractical (at least in the beginning).  Asynchronous sessions, especially short demo-driven presentations where an individual can truly tackle a subject in bite-sized pieces makes more sense to me.  So many of the questions we see here on the forum deal with practical matters, I would think those might help to gain some traction (and experience) with e-course delivery.

 

It will be easy for a project like this to get very large, very quickly.  I would suggest the advisory board consider a well developed scope document and perhaps some research among members and prospective member of the Potter's Council. Just what, exactly, meets the greatest need?

 

I don't think we have to get too far off the reservation to find simple things for people to learn and enjoy.  Good grief, there are enough features here on the forum that aren't used that an e-course on becoming an effective forum discussion participant might be a good place to start (IMHO).

 

Sorry if this sounds preachy...I've just been around the block a few times with online delivery,

-Paul

JBaymore likes this

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This gives me a weird feeling. For 20 years I battled to keep one-to-one and classroom training (IT) in a corporate HQ, when others wanted to switch to CBT. Now I'm thinking web-based training sounds like a good idea! However I think the logistics and cost would not make it feasible.

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With the thousands of Youtube videos (of varying degrees of quality), DVDs from individuals and organizations like ACERS, what else needs to be covered? And, there are numerous approaches/ways to center, open, pull, make a slab, extrude, etc., who decides which approach should be taught?

 

Maybe Potters Council should consider a Pay-per-view approach to its conferences, where folks who can't attend can log in/view for the presentations and demos, etc.

LeeU likes this

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I mentioned to someone earlier , one of the oddest online courses offered at my University was Interpersonal Communication, a Gen ed. class.

I have always felt it would be difficult to teach pottery online. When I teach throwing , I like to put my hands with the students hands and move together. I will talk with Antoinette and see how her classes are going. Highs and lows. She was excited about them last time we talked.

 

Marcia

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As a working full time potter who is a long time member of the potters council for many years and who has done mentoring thru this system it takes lots of time. I did it and will do more as I felt like giving back to the ceramic community but one needs to realize it takes lots of time. Its the same reason I am answering or posting any info on this foruem.

One of the things I did specify for mentoring is not teaching how to throw-for me this is not on online subject. I skyped for a few years with a mentee on issues like feet, glazes,forms, and trimming,selling ,etc but it all takes time away from what I do for a living.

as to the menroring program I can ask for a mentee who is looking for what I want to give as its a taylor made match which is one big reason I liked it.The mentee has to fit what I can give and thats a key point vs on online class with lots of folks.

I have a hard time getting my head around teaching it online for any reason. I Just do not see it at least for me at this time.I would rather work in the studio-this may change when I get older-and since I'm already older I doubt it.

There is a extremely large amount of shared knowledge on this forum from many sources from all over the planet.

I'm with John as it seems way to much work for those involved and costing to much money for those who may want to take one.

I made a choice when I was youger as my entire family was teachers of all levels that I would work in clay and see what happened.

I choose to be a potter not a teacher but as this family history of teaching seems to have rubbed off on me somewhat for thats another reson I'm active on this board.

They do have online courses for many collage subjects-I'm just not sold that clay is a good choice for one.

Mark

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I'm with Paul at Bciskepottery and John Baymore on the idea of a Pay-per-view approach to the Potter's Council conferences.  I can't always afford the travel cost or the time away from the studio, but I salivate at the descriptions of the conferences I'm missing.  This is assuming of course that the Potter's council is willing to, and capable of, making useful videos of the conference demos and lectures...

 

jayne

aperhapshand and ChenowethArts like this

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I also tend to agree with Mark, John,Paul and Jayne. I,too, come from a family of teachers. I taught pottery for decades. I still can't see how it can be done without one on one instruction. Mark described the mentoring program very well. PC tries to make the right fit. I will still talk to Antoinette to understand her methods. I agree that local workshops and PC conferences of the topic you want to learn would be the best method.

Teaching is a profession and lots of work and dedication. There has been discussion previously about a series of web-courses on specific topics. Maybe we'll have another look. Meanwhile, ceramic Arts Daily has great videos every day....small segments from their DVD series. I learned several techniques like photo transfer and a fast embossed slip applicator from mylar wrapping paper.There are lots of topics presented by some of the top people in the field. If you have any road bumps, do some searching there. They are very informative.

Marcia

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<snip> Meanwhile, ceramic Arts Daily has great videos every day....small segments from their DVD series. I learned several techniques like photo transfer and a fast embossed slip applicator from mylar wrapping paper.There are lots of topics presented by some of the top people in the field. If you have any road bumps, do some searching there. They are very informative.

Marcia

 

+1  ... And maybe even buy the full video ......

Marcia Selsor likes this

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Yes, the videos are great!

I just bought Lisa Naples' video two months ago. I love her work and her philosophy of earthenware and lowfire.

Plus she is a lot of fun in person.

I have been wanting to experiment with mixed media and she covers some of that in her DVD.

Still learning after 40+ years of working and teaching in clay.

 

Marcia

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An idea while reading an educational post.

 

What if along with the FAQ's there could be an 'Informative Post' (name under construction) section. Posts that are educational/helpful/FAQ's could be stored under some kind of labels with the original post and link to forum. 

 

It could be decided through voting for (educational like this) a post. People would then know if they so wanted to share it would be recorded in an easy to find place not lost in the depths of the search function. It would be difficult with the image limits on the forum/posts to make a good tutorial that is not a wall of text.

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I have bought a few of the DVS and find them very helpful, and I use many of the techniques I learn from them. But I also love to take online courses. I finished 2 of Diana Fayt's e-courses and I got so much out of them. The camaraderie of sharing the assignments for the 6 weeks with all the other students was a joy. I work alone in my studio and I am not able to leave home for workshops so having that experience online was perfect for me. We were all working on the same weeks assignments and could ask questions as they came up. We could upload photos of our progress and workspaces and finished pieces, and then see what others were doing. The feedback from the instructor was so helpful and encouraging. I don't think it would be right of me to share any specifics of how her classes were organized and implemented. And without stating the cost or how many were in the class, I will just say that it looked to me to be a good income source. Some of the comments above that talk about how it is not something that can be done are completely missing the potential of this exciting new method of teaching and learning. It reminds me of myself in the late 1960's when my Dad bought a first Texas Instruments computer and I kept asking, "But, what good is it? And, "Why would anyone want a computer?"

 

Right now I am making my first glazes and doing many tests. I have John Britt's DVD and his book to guide me. But I sure wish there were online courses that could direct my week's glaze work. I keep getting lost in the process. A class would give me the direction and focus and feedback that I have always thrived on.

Marcia Selsor likes this

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