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Critique - Worst You've Heard


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Seems to be a fair interest in critiques lately.Wondering what comments people have heard.

 

One of them that I had back in school was "Got anything else?"  Prof didn't even deem my work good enough to make any constructive criticism on. I still remember it, but with a smile these days.

 

 

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Provocative topic Min.

 

If that was all your teacher had to say then that was truly pathetic. I've participated in many critiques, as a student and a teacher. I can't think of any single comments that stand out.

 

Critiques by their very nature must be critical. The constructive aspect is in the hands of the student. That is, how will the student process the criticism and put it to use in their work.

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I was told by an extremely misogynistic sculpture instructor that I don't know how to think.

(Guy's a bitter, failed artist, by the way.)

 

My painting instructor told me, upon hearing that, "You can take that bullsh*t and throw it out the window. And you better keep making guinea pigs or I'll flunk you."

I LOVED that dude. ^_^

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The constructive aspect is in the hands of the student.

 

Well said Steve ... the most important aspect of any critique is what you do after it.

 

If I got a critique of "Got anything else?" from a person whose opinion I respected ... I would make darn sure the next time they came around I had something else.

 

Since I spent most of my pottery career selling,  my critiques came from whether or not I got on/stayed on the shelves of a particular gallery or how much I had to pack up to take home after a show!

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When I was in my first year of graduate school at Alfred, I was making small ,four cup teapots. A sculpture prof asked me why the spouts were so long and narrow. I said; "because they really pour."

He went over to the water fountain, filled one of my teapots up with water, and then would periodically pour water directly onto the floor. Not into a cup or other container, directly onto the floor as if he were peeing in my studio space. I had 7 profs in my tiny space critiquing my work and one of them was periodically pouring water onto the bare floor of my studio, as they discussed my work.

At the time, people were making these huge watering can like teapots like Ken Ferguson's, that didn't pour.

I did eventually graduate with my M.F.A. from there, but it was very stressful, as I was the Canadian guy-not used to that kind of rudeness.

TJR.

It's been 32 years since the class of 1983. I'm well over it. :D

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The critique is about the work, not the person

and what Stephen said above.

This may have to be pointed out to both the creator and the critic.....

Invite someone to critique your work then react in a personal way as if you have been slighted happens all too often.

Also, the critic, all powerful in some tertiary institutions, sometimes is unthoughtful in the comment made.

Questions often lead to the best onward progress of the student or artist.

Can't stand the heat, get out of the Kiln????

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Yes and no.  Making art is like creating a board game.  The themes you choose, style of gameplay, type of board, etc. etc. are all yours to choose, but if the rules are confusing and difficult, or make for a boring game, or don't make sense, all the subjective stuff doesn't matter, people won't like your game.  The objective part of aesthetics is that the piece in question has to do justice to its own internal logic.

 

As for the worst critique, I spent a lot of time in writer's groups in my early 20's and I developed a pretty thick skin there.  I also learned how to weed out unhelpful critiques  "I think this is a bad story" is a terrible critique that basically asks you to give up.  "Your plot doesn't go anywhere" says everything "I think this is a bad story" says, but gives you something to work with.  A good litmus test is to ask a follow up question like "what would you improve/change?"  If they have no constructive suggestions, they're useless and not worth your time.  Generally speaking that kind of critique comes from their own misery.  They don't know how to get past the critique they level at you, which is why such advice has such a "quit now" feeling.  Misery loves company.

 

My favourite harsh critic was my 3rd year Latin professor.  There were four of us in the class and he would swoop down and say "No!" whenever we got something wrong.  For the first month, we all spoke with a stammer, but by month two, we were almost fluent.  He was never unhelpful, he just believed that high pressure, no safety net was the way to learn a language.  He was right.  Three of us did stellar on the final, and the fourth dropped the course.  She dropped not because of the high pressure environment, since the prof. spent time with her after class every day and supported her in every way.  She dropped because someone else had passed her the year before who shouldn't have.  She took the previous year's course again, and next year excelled.

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So Tyler, has your Latin done you any more good than mine did for me? It definitely helps with definitions, spelling and crossword puzzles!

 

As to aesthetics being a matter of opinion ... of course you could say that.

 

But, there are many people who have taken years of their lives to educate themselves and their 'eye' and so have a depth of knowledge to base their opinions on. They have put in the time, know more than I ever will about surface, form, aesthetics and design. They've seen thousands of pots from all ages of human kind and know what makes a good one. Whether they are nice or not about the way they tell you is another matter. : - )

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Latin is everywhere man!

Must be Latin teachers!!

Mine ,we were in a tiered classroom, would rap your desk sharply with a rod if you got something wrong., could reach the back of the room from where he paced the floor. And as my name, Barbara, is latin for  strange or alien woman,  he delighted in this!.

I learned much from him, mostly on how not to treat students, but also on how not to let bullies into your brain.

I needed Latin , I got it.

Feeding a Christian to the lions came into my mind often, he was also a devout Christian...

No insult intended to  all other Christians  believe me.

I lived at the time in an area of Scotland which had been invaded by Romans. How could this be??? He was the only teacher who took us on a field trip and got us totally hooked, he was obsessed with his subject. ANd so hooked us in.

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All I remember about my college critiques was that "the pieces you're making seem too random.  You need to find your voice, your style."  I was always jealous of the other students who seemed to have it figured out.  I feel like I am only just now finding my voice and my style.  It's been more than 10 years since I graduated.  I think critiques can sometimes be helpful by themselves, but more often need to come with some direction or suggestion for me to use them for betterment.

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All I remember about my college critiques was that "the pieces you're making seem too random.  You need to find your voice, your style."  I was always jealous of the other students who seemed to have it figured out.  I feel like I am only just now finding my voice and my style.  It's been more than 10 years since I graduated.  I think critiques can sometimes be helpful by themselves, but more often need to come with some direction or suggestion for me to use them for betterment.

 

In school, there is definitely a place to discuss what personal style or personal narrative mean, but I'd rather those school courses focus on exploration and pushing the envelope. The classroom should be a much less inhibited space where the seeds of creativity are encouraged to germinate.  Critiques that give perspective and direction generally result in growth instead of introversion.

 

I had a fourth-year architecture professor use critique times to be personal and vengeful for what student leaders were doing that he opposed. I recall a conversation with the school's dean after an exchange where this nemisis instructor made some sort of comment, "You'll make a great waiter because you keep coming back to this same design-style"...to which I resonded, "You'll make a great professor as soon as you try a little harder to get your head out of your a$$".  From that experience, the most important thing I learned was "Don't be a ########".

 

-Paul

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Very early in my career I had a customer tell me that they had  purchased one of my pots because they felt sad for it.  Funny though, it became one of her favorite pots through use.

 

-SD

A purchase is a purchase, ...but this cracked me up.  We do our best to put emotions into our work...not sure that I've had a customer feel sad for a piece though.  I've made my share of sad looking pots.  Maybe I need some little clay signs to hang on them that read, "Will throw for Sympathy".

 

-Paul

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The most upsetting negative feedback I've ever received .... in my first semester of college, I got a B in Design 101. I thought I had done a good job in the class. But in hindsight I know I half-assed it, just expecting my work to stand out because it always had before. I realized many of my classmates were also voted "class artist" in high school, and I was just average among them. That was the end of my half-assery. I put forth a real effort after that, and the critiques were still hard and honest, but at least I knew it was not from lack of effort. I guess I'm lucky that I did not have any professors who were bitter or failed to be constructive.

 

When working as a designer, you need to hear and process and incorporate mountains of critical feedback. Finishing any project with an "approval" from a client (who wouldn't have hired you at all if they didn't like your work) involves so much detail and nuance. Multiple attempts. Convincing and conceding, back and forth. You are often aiming for a moving target. This is normal to me now. The absence of disagreement would seem weird to me.

 

Now working as a potter, I am free from aiming for those moving targets. I only need to hit my own aesthetic goals. The critical feedback I get now comes in the form of rejection from shows I've applied to, and when customers walk out of my booth empty-handed. But again, I think it would be weird if there was no disagreement about my work. I know how hard it is to please people. It does not bother me at all. In fact what really bothers me is when someone gives me obvious false praise, when their body language says they do not like my work. Do you think I'm going to burst into tears because you don't like my pots? Please.

 

(side note ... this is one of the secrets to my success as a potter. After many years of greased-pig-wrestling with other people's aesthetic ideas, I have developed a rock solid sense of my own values, and I only try to be true to myself.)

 

I can totally empathize with a college student, without much worldly perspective, who feels hurt by the sting of criticism. I really don't have much sympathy for a grown adult, with enough time out in the real world, who acts like a baby when criticized.

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In a Design and Engineering class, my structure was critiqued by Bill Daley as looking like a beaver chewed the edges. I was told a matt knife blade was good for 2 cuts and then it chewed the edges. He had some good colloquies like "tingling your gonads" or the "road to hell was paved with good intentions".Our group critiques could last all day until 11 pm.

They were very constructive but sometimes tough.Bill Daley was Educator of the Year for the College Art Association years back.

 

Marcia

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The crits that I found most frustrating were because they came from two different teachers trying to shove me in wildly different directions, about a semester apart. I developed some work in one semester under one instructor and started to further it in the next, only to lambasted in a midterm by another instructor who felt I should be doing something else entirely.

 

"Critiques that give perspective and direction generally result in growth instead of introversion." This.

 

There were seeds of something of value in what both instructors had to offer, but because of the delivery, it took me years to unravel.

 

And then there was the lady in first year that told me she "just didn't get it." She didn't offer anything at all other than that. >.<

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"I don't get it."

I have been many places looking at Art of many varieties thinking this. While I enjoy Art that asks more questions than it answers, I wonder about work that I can't even get an inkling of an idea about. Often I will resort to looking at it technically to see if the artist has skills ... then I will try to get some distance ... sometimes you get to meet the artist and the pieces fall into place ... but mostly I am left wondering what I missed.

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What's up with the limit on the number of "likes" one can place on commentary on these boards???  Even tho hitting "Like" says little more than "I like what you said, or something in what you said, or I got something out of what you said..." it provides a nice, quick, hit & run to leave some positive vibe without launching into a monologue. I understand limiting the number of times I can access The New York Times for free, but I don't understand limited "likes" on the CAD forums.  

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I loved critiques, I never got chewed up like some people did but I did get some recommendations on directions to take.  We had class critiques where everyone would critique you work.  The best critiques were from the head of the department, he had a lot more practice at it.    Denice

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We ought to distinguish between opinions and standards.  Opinions vary, but we agree on standards before we critique.  For instance, "Is the item well-made?" is a standard.  We're asking, "Is it thrown well, glazed well, does the lid fit; does the spout pour; will the handle work, etc?"  We're comparing your item to things we KNOW are well-made.  Differences of opinion will probably be slight. 

 

Function is a standard.  Does it do what it's meant to do?  Again, we're comparing your item to things we KNOW work well, so there will probably be few disagreements.

 

Then we might approach aesthetics by asking about proportions.  Do the parts harmonize with each other compared to CLASSIC models or are some parts exaggerated or diminished?  Again, there are well-known standards concerning proportions.  If you've deviated from classic ideas of proportion, was it an experiment or unintended?  If an experiment, was it successful or not?

 

There are more standards but we start with agreed-on classic standards and deviate from them as needed, based on the INTENTIONS of the potter, not arbitrary unpredictable things like "I put some clay on the wheel and this is what happened,"  or "I like it" or "don't like it." 

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I've been through some terrible, and great critiques. On the teaching side, I hate silent critiques. I feel this newest crop of students is by far the worst when it comes to social skills, I blame technology. I used to have to tell my class to settle down, now I have to prod and pry them out of their smart phones and to utter a spoken word.

 

Worst critique: when I was in school we had a classmate who was there for vocational rehab after a very horrendous car accident. It put him in a coma for over a year and destroyed his brain function. He wasn't a bad painter, or a great one either, but his thought processes were by far and away the most interesting thing. We all hoped he wouldn't speak about our work, and if by chance he didn't and it was his turn we were in for a lengthy diatribe about everything, disconnected tie ins, and unfinished thoughts. Usually his hour long explanations would turn to food and in particular... bananas. Every critique he would talk at length about the virtues of the banana. It was hard to follow him. Time would tick away. The prof would try to go to another person, but it did no good. It was sad, and uplifting, as I've never seen such true unbridled passion in a critique before or since.

 

He was something. I would always make a point to say hello, and try to make small talk. He would always end up on bananas. One day while in the studio he came in and found me and started in about bananas. I knew better than to change the subject, so I did my best and talked bananas. He was so happy. The next morning he found me in the ceramics studio and handed me a stack of about 100 freshly printed pages. Yep, all about bananas. He said, "Thank you for talking to me yesterday. I thought you might find this stuff interesting." I took the stack and said thank you. He turned to leave, I stopped him and asked "Hey, why do you like bananas so damn much?" He looked at me, tapped his horrific scar on his head and said "Bananas are brain food."

 

Heck of a good guy.

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