RCacciato Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Hello, I am new to this site and have some questions but first off I would like to know if any of you have worked with or even seen lusters in powder form. I bought a kiln from a wonderful lady and she gave me all sorts of goodies to go along with it. I have talked to my instructor who has been in the ceramics world for quite some time. She has no idea what exactly to do to use them. I was wondering if any one know what to do. There are directions on the back but the line of lusters has gone out of business. So needless to say I am at a lost as to how to apply them. I have googled the name brand and can not find anything even close. The name of the product is Jacquelyn's Luster-ette or Luster. I even tried looking up the address and it seems it no longer exists. So I really need some help here and I would be very gratful. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Robison Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Well, Lusters need to be both applied in a well ventilated area ad when they are firing they also need to be vented properly. If they are in a powder form then you would need to bring them into a liquid state and some use lavender oil and oils to liquify them. Very much fitting into china paints they are generally fired around cone 018 - 016. Test them out using lavender oil and see what you get. But be sure to take the proper safety precautions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCacciato Posted April 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2010 Well, Lusters need to be both applied in a well ventilated area ad when they are firing they also need to be vented properly. If they are in a powder form then you would need to bring them into a liquid state and some use lavender oil and oils to liquify them. Very much fitting into china paints they are generally fired around cone 018 - 016. Test them out using lavender oil and see what you get. But be sure to take the proper safety precautions. Thank you for you help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCacciato Posted April 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2010 Thank you u have been very helpful. No one I talked to knew what to do with it. are there any other medias that can be used such as liquids use by painters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whimsysodafire Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Hello, I am new to this site and have some questions but first off I would like to know if any of you have worked with or even seen lusters in powder form. I bought a kiln from a wonderful lady and she gave me all sorts of goodies to go along with it. I have talked to my instructor who has been in the ceramics world for quite some time. She has no idea what exactly to do to use them. I was wondering if any one know what to do. There are directions on the back but the line of lusters has gone out of business. So needless to say I am at a lost as to how to apply them. I have googled the name brand and can not find anything even close. The name of the product is Jacquelyn's Luster-ette or Luster. I even tried looking up the address and it seems it no longer exists. So I really need some help here and I would be very gratful. Thank you. lusters are probably the worst thing you can do to yourself. they are highly toxic and can cause you cancer or worse. personally i would stere clear and toss them. if you are interested in metallic such as the luster gives you i would say investigate raku or another fun way of firing crystallines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo4550 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Hello, I am new to this site and have some questions but first off I would like to know if any of you have worked with or even seen lusters in powder form. Hello??/ (name would be more friendly) In the years that I have been actively working with lustres, I have never come across a powdered lustre. However I feel what you are referring to is a mica based overglaze/china pant commonly known as metallics. They are also known as satin metallics, ultra metallics, Fools Gold/copper and come in a wide range of colours. The mica flakes make the sparkle/sheen that mimics the liquid lustres. The metallics can be either fired into the painted layer or sit on top which adds more sparkle. The metallics can be applied by either painting on or dry grounding using either oil based or water based mediums. For the details on those techniques can I refer you to http://www.held.co.uk/catalogue.php in particular page 3 of Ultra Metallics & M37 - Sept 2008 issue. There is also another reference to this in Metallic Paints - July 07 issue. Techniques like these don't necessarily provide outstanding results in the first test. Like any technique patience, practice and attention to detail are the key. Regards Johanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo4550 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 lusters are probably the worst thing you can do to yourself. they are highly toxic and can cause you cancer or worse. personally i would stere clear and toss them. if you are interested in metallic such as the luster gives you i would say investigate raku or another fun way of firing crystallines. Hello Sweeping statements like the one you have just offered as an answer to a question do little to advance knowledge. Granted lustres are toxic but then so are many other things that we use in daily life. Just check out your cleaning products that are in common use. Prolonged exposure to clay dust causes silicosis and fumes from the kiln are harmful to your health. Does that mean we should all stop using clay? Scaremongering like this has led to the demise of ceramic education as glazes can no longer be mixed in educational institutions. Perhaps in time we will all have to use self hardening clay as kilns will no longer be allowed to be used. Arming yourself with reliable information is the key. Knowledge is all powerful. For an informed view on H&S for lustre and overglaze refer to http://overglaze.info/?page_id=283 as well as http://overglaze.info/?page_id=525 for "Working with resinate lustres" Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whimsysodafire Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 lusters are probably the worst thing you can do to yourself. they are highly toxic and can cause you cancer or worse. personally i would stere clear and toss them. if you are interested in metallic such as the luster gives you i would say investigate raku or another fun way of firing crystallines. Hello Sweeping statements like the one you have just offered as an answer to a question do little to advance knowledge. Granted lustres are toxic but then so are many other things that we use in daily life. Just check out your cleaning products that are in common use. Prolonged exposure to clay dust causes silicosis and fumes from the kiln are harmful to your health. Does that mean we should all stop using clay? Scaremongering like this has led to the demise of ceramic education as glazes can no longer be mixed in educational institutions. Perhaps in time we will all have to use self hardening clay as kilns will no longer be allowed to be used. Arming yourself with reliable information is the key. Knowledge is all powerful. For an informed view on H&S for lustre and overglaze refer to http://overglaze.info/?page_id=283 as well as http://overglaze.info/?page_id=525 for "Working with resinate lustres" I understand the dangersof working with clay. No I am not saying we should stop working with it alltogether. I am saying that one should take precautions in working withit. Sweeping statements likethe one you have just offered as an answer to a question do little to advanceknowledge: I was trying to state my thought on this topic in the easiestpossible manner. Personally I feel that there are other ways of getting abeautiful looking ceramic work rather then turning to luster glazes. This isthe same idea with the issue with barium glazes. Artists have found a new anddifferent way to make a safer glaze using spodumene. Granted luster’s aretoxic but then so are many other things that we use in daily life Just checkout your cleaning products that are in common use: I am in agreement to thisstatement but as I stated before I feel like there are other ways of making abeautiful piece of pottery that may be less toxic especially when it is someonewho is just starting out in ceramics and maybe is unable to take the proper precautionsto insure their safety. Prolonged exposure toclay dust causes silicosis and fumes from the kiln are harmful to your health: Iknow the dangers of silicosis. There are many ways of prolonging the effects ofit. For instance proper ventilation, wearing the proper type of mask whenmixing clay or glazes, not trimming your pieces when they are bone dry the listgoes on. Does thatmean we should all stop using clay: I am not saying we should “stop†using clayI am saying that you should have the proper safety knowledge before you decideto delve into such a dangerous endeavor. Also I think there are other ways ofgetting a similar result that one would want. Scaremongeringlike this has led to the demise of ceramic education as glazes can no longer bemixed in educational institutions: (talk about blanket statements) no it is not“scaremongering†it is the institutions that are not taking the proper precautionsand educating their students about proper safety that is making clay andglazing making less prominent. Also schools are cutting budgets for art off allkinds. It is not I or anyone else who is worried about others safety that isdecreasing ceramic education. Perhaps in time we willall have to use self hardening clay as kilns will no longer be allowed to beused: Arming yourself with reliable information is thekey. Knowledge is all powerful: thank you for these wonderful tools Iam not saying that I know everything about ceramics because I am learning somethingnew everyday but I do work in a top college level studio and I do know “somethingâ€about what I am talking about. This is how I feel about this matter and that iswhy I am putting my two since into this topic Thank you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo4550 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 but I do work in a top college level studio and I do know “somethingâ€about what I am talking about. This is how I feel about this matter and that iswhy I am putting my two since into this topic Thank you, [/quote] Hello MacKenzie??? I am really pleased that you "You work in a top level college" Many of us have been down that path too. The point was that the person was asking for help about "powdered lustres" and you totally replied in the negative. Experience does count for something in this world. We should all be more positive about our craft as it is dying one. If you really want to add another alternative to this topic "reduced Lustre" is an obvious starting point. Johanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Katz Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Ok Everyone, Nothing has gone overboard yet, but I see tensions brewing. We would like to keep this forum neutral and scientific. If you make a claim, please avoid opinions and supply data to back up your statements. We are all relying on the expertise of each other to advance the discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Good call there, Matt. This "it is dangerous" subject has come up before on this forum and while people likely have all the best intentions in sharing their thoughts..... the vehicle of text on a screen combined with lack of facial expressions, as well as the subtle back-and-forth of interactive communication, can often cause things to get "tense". Also there is a lot of misinformation circulating in the field about this subject as "fact"...... just like there is about many things ceramic (air bubbles cause clay to explode, etc.). People pick up that stuff, and then want to share it .... again with the best intentions. Along with studio and ceramic art history courses, I teach our required technical ceramics courses at the college level. Have been doing this since the 70's. One of the subjects I have been teaching about in undergrad and Master's level credit carrying courses for a long time is ceramic toxicology. I chaired my current college's Health and Safety committe for a long time, worked as an interim PT H+S officer for my college for one year, and was also on the H+S committe at a prior college. It is a subject "of interest" to me. So I can state with reasonable authority that at least SOME colleges do address this subject at some level. There are a number of written resources that are available to ceramists that anyone concerned about this subject (should be just about everyone working with ceramics) should own and read carefully. One is "Artist Beware" by Dr. Michael McCann. Another is "The Artists Complete Health and Safety Guide" by Monnona Rossol. Yet another is "Keeping Claywork Safe and Legal" also by Monona Rossol. There are then many texts written more for the medical and H+S professional..... but they are not an "easy read" for the non specialist. Start with the above list; it should be enough for the average potter-type person. Add to the above list of ceramist targeted H+S books the Material Safety Data Sheets for the products you use/come into contact with. If you don't know how to read the MSDS gobbledygook, contact Art, Craft, and Theatre Safety (ACTS) in NYC (run by Monona Rossol) and get their "Reading an MSDS" small publication. There is a lot of useful and (usually) accurate info on a MSDS. If you are an employee of a ceramics related company/school.... they have to have them available to you for the products you are in contact with. If you own/run a studio and have employees, YOU have to make them available to your employees (along with doing the required Right -To-Know training, respirator training, and so on). Interestingly, and sadly, these employment regulation requirements do not extend to students in colleges and such. As to the powdered lusters of the original poster's subject, ...................... Hard to say exactly what is in them since likely they pre-date MSDS requirements and the company apparently is "no more" so you can't get them if they exist. Lusters can be used reasonably safely if you take appropriate precautions in handling and in firing. EXACTLY what those precautions will be here is a bit difficult to establish here, because of a lack of data. So the best precautions you can take if you decide you must use them are those that apply to the very SIMILAR products currently available. You need to do some homework.... which it seems you are attempting by asking about it here . MSDSs are available online for a lot of ceramic usage products. I'd be looking for mettalics and lusters from the exisiting companies to amass some general info about those similar products and the safe handling practices. A lot of components will almost for certain be the same in them. If the luster or mettalic you have is labeled something like "flake gold", then I'd be looking for similar sounding names in the existing products. Match color and surface as best you can from the label descriptions. It is possible that they share some commonality since certain effects are created with certain chemistry and is sometimes is very similar, manufacturer to manufacturer. (No guarantees though.) Remember that you are ASSUMING that the products likely share the same basic chemistry and toxicological aspects. If you are willing to take that risk of the possible unknown consequences....... that then is your decision. I am guessing that it is a small risk overall that they are WAY different in composition. But it is just that; a guess. Basic precautions here would likely include such stuff as wearing gloves rated for the carrier the product has (not necessarily water based), an appropriate well fit half-face respirator for the toxic dusts (p-100/HEPA filter for such particles) with an additional filter stacked for the carrier's gases if GOOD local pickup ventilation is not available in the decorating area, and cleaning up WELL after use. Dry the carrier off the decorated pieces with ventilation active.....don't just let it evaporate into your work space. For firing them, a kiln with a good functional local pickup downdraft ventilation system should suffice. These compounds are typically used in such small quantities by the average studio ceramist, that the magnitude of any hazard and the controls to deal with it appropriately are not all that difficult to achieve. If you are spraying them onto sinks, toilets, and bathtubs (I was doing that once when doing industriial consulting for a major ceramics company)....than that is another story. Hope this is of help. best, ...................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Katz Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Excellent post John, I would just like to add to the community that, the fact is that people are going to do whatever they want in their studios. Because of this, we as a community need to aid each other in doing things as safely as possible. We are never going to dissuade anyone from something they deem important because of potential dangers. If safety was our only concern, none of us would ever get into a car. So let's pledge to help each other as best we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Herb Norris Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Wow, Johanna, that is beautiful work that you have posted on your website! However dangerous lusters might be, you have their use down pat. It seems you have been able to work with them safely for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo4550 Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Wow, Johanna, that is beautiful work that you have posted on your website! However dangerous lusters might be, you have their use down pat. It seems you have been able to work with them safely for many years. Thank you Herb. I definitely use a half face respirator with filters for solvents and my husband constructed a fume booth over the top of my work table. As well as this my method of working limits the time I actually spend in contact with lustre. Here is a link to the article I wrote on H&S and Overglaze (in particular lustres) that was published in The Journal of Australian Ceramics in 2006. http://overglaze.info/?page_id=460 Regards Johanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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