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Used Car, I Mean Kiln Shopping


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Okay all you experienced clay parents, I need some advice on a used kiln, especially you, Mark.

Similar situation to Jed from the start of the month, have an opportunity to get two alpine hf models, one 16 cu ft, and one 20. The potter is moving Far Far Away, and is offloading his stuff accordingly. The 16 has been used for parts, and both are 30 years old. The "safety" has been disabled (his exact words), and may need to be replaced in order to hook it up legally. I have a friend with a crane truck to move these puppies. The gas company is willing to give me whatever meter I want for free if it will help me buy more of their product, and I have a line on a kiln knowledgeable gas fitter.

 

I am going to view them Thursday night. What do I watch out for, other than the bag wall?

 

Added: I have fired something similar in college. Definitely had to watch the speed if you hoped for an even firing :). Good times.

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At 30 years old, the brick could be in pretty rough shape. Check that there aren't sections that are loose, especially in the door. It's generally more work to replace large sections of brick in these kilns than it's worth. You could build a new one from scratch faster. The bag walls are not an issue because you're going to get rid of them or replace them with hard brick anyway. But check that they haven't broken out the door jambs where they notch in.

 

As for the safety systems being disabled, that could mean a lot of things- solenoids, Fireyes, controller, pilots, spark ignitors, etc? You won't know until you see it. If any of those parts are actually gone or dead, they can be expensive to replace. A whole new burner system from the factory will cost you $3000+, but you could always build a simple burner system with Baso valves for a few hundred for each burner, assuming your local inspectors are okay with that. If you need to have a certified gas train, then you'll have to go through the factory or some other commercial burner manufacturer like Eclipse or Johnson. a set of Fireye cards will set you back a few hundred. If the kilns still have the controllers and solenoids, even better, because then you have a high temp shutoff you can use. Personally, I wouldn't fire a kiln with anything less than Baso valves and a high temp shutoff.

 

If you can build a Frankenkiln from the remaining parts of the two kilns that meets code, then you're good to go.

 

Double check with your local officials as to what they are going to require for safety systems on the kilns. If the kilns are going indoors, also check on the venting requirements. When I put in my kiln they were far more concerned about air quality than gas line safety. You could easily spend $6000 on venting depending on what you need. Don't buy anything until you get all your research done, or you're going to have two useless kilns.

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I only fired these for 4 years in collage long ago. Neil worked in the factory 

He covered all the key points.

For me an Alpine would have to be in good shape and work well with the minimum safety stuff working well to consider getting one.

They are like a two ton gorilla sitting in the room and need to work

Brick condition  would be key as well. These can get toasted inside.

Back when I worked with them all they had was a crude safety system but it worked.

Good luck move them like a paper triple stack cake -that means with extreme care.

Mark

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Thank you Neil for the checklist, that's perfect, and Mark and Maria for the bracing how to. My apologies for the mix up.

I won't be buying this as an impulse, I've been trying to nail down my local requirements to build a kiln from scratch, so a chunk of my research is done already :).

My husband works for a company that makes commercial boilers, among other things, so if the inspectors decide they have their undergarments in a twist, I have a fallback. My plan for a from-the-ground-up kiln included getting an easement on some Clackery burners that are CSA compliant. I seem to remember the alpine I find at ACAD 10 years ago didn't have any kind if electrical controls; we adjusted gas and blower manually, and partially closed the dampers for reduction. I'm assuming these weren't factory specs?

 

Added: I believe the potter selling the kilns said he disabled something in the neighbourhood of the pilot, and never left the kiln alone while firing. Is this one of the spendy fixes?

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If it has the more 'modern' controls with Fireye scanners and spark ignitors, if the pilot is unhooked then it's all unhooked, since the burners won't light without the pilot being proven by the Fireyes. It could just be an old manual system, though, that predates those, but at 30 years old I would expect it to be more modern than that. If it's literally just the pilots, those are a cheap replacement. But typically pilots are connected to a more expensive safety system. No telling what he's done.

 

The safety systems are the only automatic parts. You still have to adjust the air, gas and damper manually.

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So the kilns turned out to be 40 years old, not 30. I had both Neil (Thank you again!) and another knowledgeable local source tell me that the burners would likely need to be fully replaced in order to pass inspection. The brick was definitely showing its age, although with no loose parts. Some surface patching was needed. There was some spalling around the door on the 20 cu ft, likely from rust leaking down from the jacket. The potter told me he usually chinked the door with fibre blanket. It also needed the floor replaced, but he had the firebrick to do it. The door and floor on the 16 were in better shape, but I think the arch needed to be shimmed, almost like adding a keystone about an inch thick. Both had the original bad bag walls, but they didn't seem to have damaged either door. Two out of three pieces of the vent hood were available. The other was too rusty. He wants $500 for both of them and the vent, and I need to let him know this weekend, as he is leaving for New York state on Tuesday. I may have a few days beyond that to move it.

I am leaning towards a no at this point, unless someone here thinks it might be a fun project that would get me a kiln I can use to tide me over.

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I am flattered that you had followed my thread....I know of an updraft olympic 10 cubic kiln that has been for sale for $750 OBO for one year.... it has been sitting for a while. So, If he is in such a hurry, he may end up giving the things away. They are not that easy to unload if they are not in working order.....So if they were free, would you take them?... What would be the cost to get them in working order?...And once restored, what would be their lifespan?

 

I recently drew up plans for a 12 cubic feet downdraft kiln with 9" walls. My estimate was $3000 for materials and about $1000 for power burners.

 

Jed

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I called him today and said no.

I *might* have been able to re-plumb them up to an acceptable safety level with an alternate burner system, but I don't have time before Tuesday to price that out. I don't even want to take them for free, and then do the research. If it turns out to be not cost effective, then I have to dispose of them, and they're huge. Also, the kiln brick is in rough shape, and moving it would be very dicey. I can do all that, but all that it might get me would be another 5 years optimistically before the brick just crumbles.

He wasn't trying to pressure me as such to take them, I just found the ad he posted at Ceramics Canada kinda late.

 

On the plus side, I got a great mug tree display (6' tall and outdoor show proof), a banding wheel, a full bag of Gerstley Borate, most of a bag of Dark Ball clay, and a hand blender for $70. And a drive into the Foothills of Southern Alberta is a beautiful thing this time of year.

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