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Employing The Homeless


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Well not all of them but I know a guy who keeps asking me for any work. I am thinking I could get him mixing slips, wedging clay, slip casting and weighing out glazes.

 

Wouldn't be a full time job but at least a few hours a week.

 

Obviously lots of trust issues but has anybody ever tried this before?

 

 

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You can mitigate the trust issues, to an extent, by having him do tasks while you are also in the studio so you can monitor. Think it depends on how well you "know" this person or think you "know" this person. Just make sure you establish some ground rules at the outset so both you and he can deal with expectations, etc. Is he just looking for any type of odd job, or do you think he might have an interest specifically in pottery? That could influence your decision.

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He just wants any odd jobs. Don't know how interested he is in pottery. Yes I would have to be around in the studio while he was working. He is just a really nice 50 something guy who is trying to find any way to make money.

 

Got me thinking if I could teach him pit firing and get him making some of his own stuff when he has nothing to do as some sort of income. Not that I really know how to pit fire.

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Well not all of them but I know a guy who keeps asking me for any work. I am thinking I could get him mixing slips, wedging clay, slip casting and weighing out glazes.

 

Wouldn't be a full time job but at least a few hours a week.

 

Obviously lots of trust issues but has anybody ever tried this before?

I would be careful about having him mix slips or glazes at the outset.The guy I fire with has a helper who unloads kilns and sands and packs pots. He has some mental health issues and still lives with his mother at age 51. Ironically, he drives his own car. I know another potter who hires a guy for yard work around his place, grass cutting snow shoveling. Some of these guys just want cash for smokes, but this may turn out to be a good thing.

TJR.

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Guest JBaymore

If you were in the USA..................

 

Noble and wonderful thought you have there to help out a poor guy........... but ........... when he slips and falls.... and goes to the hospital...... and then sues you...... and then it is found out by authorities that he was "working for you" and you were not meeting legal minimum wage standards and worker's comp insurance laws...... or paying witholding taxes on what you should have been paying him....... and so on.... you are in a pack of trouble.

 

Working with clay materials..... research OSHA silica standards for what you HAVE to do as an employer... including performing mandatory respirator training, fit testing, and medical monitoring to OSHA standards.

 

It is not nice to have to think of this stuff...... but it is the way it is.

 

Don't know the UK situation with thjis stuff... assume it is similar.

 

best,

 

................john

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Well;

As everyone knows, I am not from the USA.Not that I want to get into the differences in our countries, but we have universal health care like Great Britain. We also are not in the habit of suing each other.

I guess that is good advice, John. Unfortunately, not nice to hear.

TJR.

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The English are slowly getting better at suing people. There are so many adverts now about making claims that people see it as an easy way to make money, especially with car accidents.

 

I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt but sometimes that comes back and bites me in the ass.

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In my previous businesses, over a period of about 25 years,  I've had up to 150 employees at one time, employing over a 1000 different people through the years.   In my early years, being the liberal that I am, I hired a few people  (can recall around 10) that were  on the down side of life (not homeless but seemingly desperate).     Hiring them, even though my brother (who's in been in business about 35 years) told me not to.  His reasoning is that although there are a  few people  in situations by circumstance, most of them are there for a reason.    The reason being ..... they have character flaws that make them unfit for employment.   Even my employees warned me not to hire them.  I still have my oldest employee with me working in this business,   and sometimes they still bring up some of those situations and laugh .. "remember I told you so".  Okay (forgot about this one),  I even hired a questionable employee in my pottery business two years ago .. against the advise of my brother and my employee ... and yes they were right ... again.  Had to hear "I told you so" about 100 times.

 

I won't go though the specifics, but every single hire turned out to be  negative.  Either they didn't show up or didn't really want to work when they got there.   I mean people that literally begged for a job, and then turned out to be inconsistent, lazy or dishonest ... or all three.  Not one of them proved to be even marginal.

 

From experience, I'm saying no.  It's hard to resist, but good employees have options.    They aren't desperate.  Like my brother always says, if they aren't in gainful employment,  they need to have a really good, definitive reason.  I'm telling you "no" but that doesn't exclude me from making this same mistake again, some where down the road.  I may never give up wanting to make a difference.      I guess I satisfy this desire by providing for stray and feral cats.

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well you can certainly just 1099 them at the end of the year and give them task that they can come and do at their scheduling with just the guidelines that they need to pre-arrange the time and you will pay them after the project is completed. This way its very low key and the person will rise to the occasion and it will work out for you both or they will flake out. I am assuming that at least right now you feel like this person is trustworthy or you would not have even started this thread. Look I hear everything everyone has said but if you approach it kind of along the lines you would hiring someone to do lawn work around your house it does not have to be a big deal and the person will have a chance to make it something more or squander the opportunity and you can pull the plug.

 

I would also make sure you do truly treat them as independent contractors as long as you are 1099ing them and if you decide to move them to a part time employee status then do it right and file the necessary paperwork. It is not really that big of a deal and can mostly be done on-line these days. Not real sure about the pit firing thing though. if someone gets the clay bug it is not that hard to start working in clay in a cheap way although they may have to join a community program to access some things if you are not willing to offer them as a perk.

 

I vote yes if the guy seems OK and you have the work. Over the years in non-clay businesses I have had mixed results but when it works out it's a really nice situation where everyone wins and you were able to give someone a helping hand in life. 

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I don't think High Bridge Pottery was considering hiring the person as a full-time employee, or even regular part-time employee; rather, it seemed he was thinking about paying the person to do some work around the studio on a piece-meal, non-regular basis - "a few hours a week". Maybe no different than hiring the kid down the street to cut your grass, weed the flower beds. And, no more of an employer/employee relationship than that.

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Guest JBaymore

Maybe no different than hiring the kid down the street to cut your grass, weed the flower beds. And, no more of an employer/employee relationship than that.

 

These days... that kid can be an issue also. It is a potential liability issue at he least for sure. They get hurt... you own it. Don;ty believe me... talk to your insurance company.

 

If that "independent contractor" is not insured...... and they get injured on your premises...... that too can come back to bite you.

 

And if you 1099 somone..... it really has to be within the definitions of a 1099 contractor. If that person does not regularly do such business stuff for others... if you are the sole person that they do work for.... you might have issues.

 

best,

 

...................john

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True, but almost everything in business CAN turn into a liability nightmare. Most things don't. If you never get on an airplane you will never die in a plan crash ;-)

 

I had a new driver once who claimed that he injured his breast plate when he was standing by his truck yawning. My service manager and I were both amused quipping there was no way to see that coming. He actually found and attorney and sued us but of course offered to settle for 20k. We stood firm and he went away before it got too expensive.

 

I would argue that you should take reasonable precautions, buy appropriate insurance and as John says, follow labor laws and then go about your business. No amount of overly cautious positions will cover all the potential BS that can come at you as a business owner. I am not trying to say Johns concerns are not valid I am just saying do what's right for your business and hire help if you need it. I personally cannot imagine how one person could accomplish all that has to happen to sell enough pottery to make a living. It is going to take help and as a very small business it takes a while for that need to fit neatly into full time positions and that's where part time help shines. I know this thread is about helping out a down and out person with some paid hours each week but I assume that also means you need the extra few hours of work. If you classify employees correctly, file the proper paperwork, withhold properly from their paychecks and carry good insurance part time employees can be a real asset in growing your business. The insurance is not that expensive and the payroll paperwork is not that big of a deal.

 

And hey if it helps out a good person down on their luck all the better. 

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If one wishes to help a person without a home, it "should" involve knowing something about the person. Not to place assumptions or judgment, but to understand needs and motivations. Proceeding involves relationship, like it or not. The logistics, re: liability, employment vs. barter vs, contractual, or even under the table etc. are best teased out by experts in such arrangements. But what of the relationship...is your man hungry? Seeking money for a fix or booze? Wanting to get a room for a few nights for respite from the street? Saving for something? Just wanting the dignity of being able to purchase his own shirt or a cup of good coffee? Is he hooked up with a mental health program? Is he showing any interest in engaging in (whatever) work to better his situation, however modestly? Does he have anyone in his corner? Boundaries must be set and adhered to, but make no mistake, a relationship it will be...one cannot distance oneself from that and still claim to be "helping'. 

 

I know of a person, retired from a solid career and holding 2 fancy degrees, who was once homeless, a street addict, a thief, and damaging to others. Thanks in part to the grace and kindness of a some in the community, including agencies designed to help, the person was able to crawl up and out, and eventually restored to mental, physical, financial, and social health. Nobody got sued, but a few individuals seeking to help got burned along the way.  It's a crap-shoot, and frankly, the odds are not good. But as they say, it made a difference to THAT starfish. The person is alive and very well.            http://www.esc16.net/users/0020/FACES/Starfish%20Story.pdf

 

(I made some slight edits after reading Carl's post, which hits the nail on the head. The individuals helping the person I know did not do so in isolation.) 

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Where I live, the police have a homeless engagement team that works very hard to ensure the well-being of our homeless population.  They know them all by name, know their habits, their reasons for being homeless, when they're supposed to be at rehab, etc.  They have been making efforts to have people aid the homeless through them or an established organization already working with the homeless.   One of the big things I've learned is that what looks like help to us actually gets in the way of actually helping the homeless, and people who work with them on a daily basis see a much larger portion of the big picture.  They would have a much better understanding of whether or not such an employment arrangement would be good for both sides.

 

Engage your community police officer and find out what resources they can point you to.  You can make a difference, but you don't have to make a difference all on your own.

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