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Sodium Silicate For Majic Water?


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#1 clay lover

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 11:58 AM

I ordered some sodium silicate to make majic water, and when it came it is a gell consistency. how do I measure it for the recepie? the same as with liquid, or less? It is nice for doing crackle pots that you coat with the gell and dry, then expand, because I can get a thicker coat without wetting the pot with many layers. but I don't know how much to use for slip or majic water?????l

#2 Pam S

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 06:20 PM

I use two tablespoons of sodium silicate to a gallon of distilled water for "Magic Water." What I bought is a very thick liquid. I have only used it for slipping pieces together so I can't address your question about using it a a crackle medium. I'll be interested in the replies.

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#3 terraforma

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 08:52 PM

The percentage of sodium silicate in a gel form will vary by brand and is pretty low - Amaco says theirs is about 2% sodium silicate, and Laguna Clay told me theirs contained 7% by volume. Call the tech support department of the gel's manufacturer, tell them your dilemma, and they should be kind enough to tell you exactly what percentage of sodium silicate it contains by volume. The rest is probably just plain water, but ask if there are any other ingredients you should know about. (They probably won't tell you that, though - propietary formula and all that...) Then, just alter the magic water formula to account for the amount of sodium silicate in the quantity of gel you use.

Good luck.
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Los Angeles, CA

#4 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 11:15 PM

Somewhere i have a conversion for fluid oz. Last time I mixed Magic water, I used a Vet's plastic syringe with fluid oz. markings.
I'll have to look thru my notes for the conversion. On the road at the moment.
Marcia

#5 Pres

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:35 AM

Somewhere i have a conversion for fluid oz. Last time I mixed Magic water, I used a Vet's plastic syringe with fluid oz. markings.
I'll have to look thru my notes for the conversion. On the road at the moment.
Marcia


I have the formula in tablespoon and teaspoon measurements, I'll find it an post it also.

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#6 bciskepottery

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:16 PM

Lana Wilson's Magic Water recipe is:

1 gallon water
3 tablespoons liquid sodium silicate
1 1/2 teaspoons soda ash

#7 Pres

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:41 PM

Lana Wilson's Magic Water recipe is:

1 gallon water
3 tablespoons liquid sodium silicate
1 1/2 teaspoons soda ash


Same one I was going to post, thank you for doing so for me.

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#8 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 08:32 PM

Thanks from me too. I am still on the road.
Much easier than what I have been using.
Marcia

#9 lakesidepottery

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:49 PM

I ordered some sodium silicate to make majic water, and when it came it is a gell consistency. how do I measure it for the recepie? the same as with liquid, or less? It is nice for doing crackle pots that you coat with the gell and dry, then expand, because I can get a thicker coat without wetting the pot with many layers. but I don't know how much to use for slip or majic water?????l


Hi,

We have written the following information that you might find usefull. See more details on this tip page in this link. For more pottery tips from Lakeside Pottery.

Pottery Magic Water & Magic Mud / Paper Clay When to use Magic Water?
Magic water is used when the bond between two pieces of clay is a suspect for cracking during drying or bisque firing. Cracks can occur in the following conditions:

  • When one piece of clay dries faster than the other which typically occurs when it has a smaller mass or thinner than the other piece (e.g., a mug handle).
  • When one clay piece is applied to another piece that is already a dryer leather-hard (e.g., when waiting is required for a thrown pot to harden before applying hand-built piece).
The above two conditions are more susceptible to cracking because when one piece is dryer that the other, it is therefore shrunk more than the other and will not continue to shrink uniformly after they are attached to each other, thus - creating stress.

When to use Magic Mud / Paper Clay?
Same as above with more extreme cases. It enables the joining process to be less critical and therefore one can build more spontaneously as well as build wet clay on dryer clay. Stress cracks during drying reduce dramatically. It can also be used to connect broken bone-dry pots / sculptures. Sometimes it works fixing broken bisqued pots (needs to be re-bisqued after applying magic mud). When fixing broken bone-dry or bisqued pot, always apply more magic mud / magic slip than needed and build the layers slowly allowing the layers to dry in between applications. The excess slip can be filed down after the bisque firing.

Why does Magic Water work?
Sodium in the soda ash and the sodium silicate is a very powerful flux. The silica in the sodium silicate adds some glass-former. The water is to dissolve the soda ash (which is soluble) and therefore travels a little way into the wet clay. The sodium silicate is sticky and dries really hard and faster than the clay does. The end result is that the Magic Water makes a sticky layer of almost-glaze that soaks into the surrounding clay and dries hard. Thus, cracks are prevented in the drying and the bond is stronger after firing.

Why does Magic Mud /Paper Clay work?
In addition to the reasons mention above (Magic Water), the paper fiber will bond the two pieces of clay better and resist stress more effectively during the clay drying / shrinking process (has no effect during firing).

How to make Magic Water - Recipe?

  • 1 gallon of water
  • 3 table spoons of liquid sodium silicate
  • 1 1/2 teaspoons of soda ash

How to make Magic Mud - Recipe?

  • Chop up 1/4 to 1/3 of a cup of either paper napkin, toilet paper, or paper towel
  • Add 3/4 to 2/3 of a cup of bone dry clay hammered into small pieces, or powdered. It is better to use the same clay for both, magic mud and your actual project.
  • Soak over night in Magic Water poured one inch above clay and paper mixture.
  • Blend in electric blender
  • Pour off excess water
  • The slip created is ready for use
Lakeside Pottery, Ceramic School & Studio
543 Newfield Avenue
Stamford, CT 06905
203-323-2222
www.lakesidepottery.com


Lakeside Pottery, Ceramic School & Studio
543 Newfield Avenue
Stamford, CT 06905
203-323-2222
www.lakesidepottery.com

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#10 Firemountaion Studios

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 06:08 PM

Just a quick note:
To much sodium silicate will jell to whole mix, this can not be fixed.
Use as little as possible, a little goes a long way.
Sodium silicate is corrosive.
I have seen people get skin rashes using it.

#11 Idaho Potter

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:05 PM

The recipe I have came from either Ceramics Monthly or Pottery Making Illustrated. I had to have grams converted to teaspoons but it works great and if I need a patch on something I use paper clay (using a lump of dry, grate it as you would a hard cheese) powder and mix to a thin paste. Haven't tried it on bisque ware yet, but someday will need to.


MAGIC WATER

3 Tablespoons sodium silicate
1 (one) teaspoon soda ash
1 gallon distilled water

#12 JKRosenberg

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:28 AM

Would epsom salts work as a substitute for sodium silicate?

#13 Pres

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 08:27 AM

Would epsom salts work as a substitute for sodium silicate?


I don't believe so, I have tried them at one point, as I used them in my glazes. However, I needed to make up some magic water and not being able to get it locally quick, I found a jar of radiator sealant-the main ingredient was Sodium Silicate. I used that in a solution that I started by doubling the amount and it worked pretty well.

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#14 bciskepottery

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:07 PM

Liquid sodium silicate is also called "egg keep" and is sometimes available at drug stores.

#15 Iforgot

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:32 PM

Just a quick note:
To much sodium silicate will jell to whole mix, this can not be fixed.
Use as little as possible, a little goes a long way.
Sodium silicate is corrosive.
I have seen people get skin rashes using it.



When ever I make joining slip I add so much sodium sillicate so that the slip will become a gel, I just stir it to break up the gel before use, this really helps the bond when attaching clay to clay.


Darrel
Derek VonDrehle

Raku, Pit fired, Majolica, and Stoneware ceramic artisit

#16 morah

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:24 PM

If magic water, magic mud, or paper clay is used to repair something that is food safe does that affect its safety or can it still be considered food safe?

#17 Krebs Pottery

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:02 PM

I saw a video a few months ago where the potter painted a thin layer of colored slip and then sodium silicate onto a fresh thrown pot (still on the wheel) and then used a torch to only dry the exterior sodium silicate layer. He then expanded the pot from only the inside which created a beautiful crackle pattern on the outside. I am guessing the video was from Ceramics Arts Daily but it may have been YouTube.
~Cheryl

#18 oldlady

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:34 PM

I saw a video a few months ago where the potter painted a thin layer of colored slip and then sodium silicate onto a fresh thrown pot (still on the wheel) and then used a torch to only dry the exterior sodium silicate layer. He then expanded the pot from only the inside which created a beautiful crackle pattern on the outside. I am guessing the video was from Ceramics Arts Daily but it may have been YouTube.




randy broadnax did this on a video here several months ago. our correspondent bciske makes some of the best looking slab work using this technique. if we are lucky he will post pictures of his positively pristine seams. (sigh with envy..................)
"putting you down does not raise me up."

#19 bciskepottery

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:16 PM


I saw a video a few months ago where the potter painted a thin layer of colored slip and then sodium silicate onto a fresh thrown pot (still on the wheel) and then used a torch to only dry the exterior sodium silicate layer. He then expanded the pot from only the inside which created a beautiful crackle pattern on the outside. I am guessing the video was from Ceramics Arts Daily but it may have been YouTube.




randy broadnax did this on a video here several months ago. our correspondent bciske makes some of the best looking slab work using this technique. if we are lucky he will post pictures of his positively pristine seams. (sigh with envy..................)



Thanks very much for the kind words . . . but I don't use sodium silicate on my kohiki slabwork (although I sometimes add magic water to regular slip used for joining seams). There are pictures in the gallery and on the website www.bruceciskepottery.com

#20 Hedy

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

I was told me Cider Vinegar can replace soda ash in Majic water. I this true?
HDemontigny




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