clay lover Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I came across an article in an OLD CM, May 87-Jeffery Werbock, with this idea. It is presented as a Korean technique. Are you familiar with it? When I read it, I thought about my question some time back about throwing orientation of pugged clay and s cracks from the spiral in the pug. Wouldn't this 'eye of the clay' approach have the same issue? I was taught to put even small hand wedged pieces on the bat with the spiral cross wise so as to minimize s cracks. This article talks about using spiral wedging to create the spiral and how coning up and pushing the clay to one side when coning down will increase the twist in the clay, to your benefit. The idea is that it is easier to open and throw because you are working with the spiral. The focus of the article was throwing large. The potter in the illustrations opened the tall slender lump of clay with his fist, going into the clay elbow deep. The first pull was from walls already 12" tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I have never had an s crack, but I have never thrown in porcelain. My thoughts would be the pug doesn't produce the same kind of spiral as spiral wedging and coning but maybe the eye of the clay approach is so that he can open up this tall lump of clay and the clay has enough 'something' to stop the s crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaria Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I've seen videos of a potter (who was speaking in German, so I didn't understand what was being said) who did that odd-looking tilt off to the side while centering back down after coning up. I wondered why he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I've seen videos of a potter (who was speaking in German, so I didn't understand what was being said) who did that odd-looking tilt off to the side while centering back down after coning up. I wondered why he did it. I do it just to show the clay who is the BOSS, and students think it looks cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzine Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 To be fair, pretty much everything you show the students on the wheel, amazes them. Centering, they don't think much of, until they try to do it. After that, taking two seconds to center something, they've been struggling with for ten minutes, is astonishing. And don't get me started on opening, and pulling. From their reaction, you'd think I'd just performed magic! And after thoroughly amazing them, I love seeing their expressions, when I cut the ware in half to talk about consistent thickness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 To be fair, pretty much everything you show the students on the wheel, amazes them. Centering, they don't think much of, until they try to do it. After that, taking two seconds to center something, they've been struggling with for ten minutes, is astonishing. And don't get me started on opening, and pulling. From their reaction, you'd think I'd just performed magic! And after thoroughly amazing them, I love seeing their expressions, when I cut the ware in half to talk about consistent thickness... The gasp when you cut a piece............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzine Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Yep. "Why did you do that?!" My response, "Because it wasn't that good, and I was going to throw it anyway." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay lover Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Stellaria, The article said the potter slanted the clay when bringing it down to put more spiral in it. Do any of you have any experience or knowledge about throwing this way? That was my original question. It is thought provoking to me. I am hoping someone will chime in here with some info on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I spiral wedge (kikumomi). The spiral aligns with the wheel's axis. Why? Think about what direction the flat clay platelets are tending to be aligned (flat sides) in the spiral wedging process...... what surface they are parallell to. Then think about what direction the platelets are aligned when you compress ( align actually) the walls. That's why. Makes a difference. If you are getting S cracking when throwing on the wheelhead .... it is other stuff causing it. Off the hump S cracking is fixed by how you actually DO that process. There are some tricks... learned them in Japan....... listed them in other threads. The 'center tall and then open' is a Korean/Japanese technique that I sometimes use. As is the 'pound open the cylinder before ever using water' one. best, .................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay lover Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Thanks, John. This weeks challenge, center tall and open and pound open dry. I know I can combine pieces to get taller, larger pots, but I want to throw them as tall as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I use the "pound open dry" a lot for large bowls...... thrown wet about 26" wide. (Learned from and inspired by the Hamada clan.) LOVE big bowls. Two on a layer just fit at he very top of the stacking in a chamber of the noborigama. best, .....................john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I had only ever seen pictures of the pound open technique. However, I started trying it out until I could successfully do it. I have used it for large bowls, and for large jars/containers. I also open using a fist when needed, but have never tried centering tall and opening up long. As to the clay particle line up, I always believed that that was the way to throw when doing cone wedging. I often wondered if coning left, or right made a difference in the wheel movement, but have never had the patience to learn wedging in the opposite direction just to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay lover Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 having lunch right now, clay is ready, we will see about this open with a fist tall thing. if not.....back in the pugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Reed Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ok I know there was a bunch of discussion on this, I do not have the CM article. However there was a recent You Tube Video put up from AMOCA of a Master doing this eye of the clay technique. I suspect you have already seen this, but just in case. http://youtu.be/dDreqXD4Mol One of the most beautiful videos I have ever seen. Watch with a tissue in your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzine Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Brian, The video in the link is "Unavailable". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay lover Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Well, not a total success, but more height and thinner walls than ever before. Sore fingers, tho. I ended up with a piece that previously took me 2 sectio0ns to get with more even profile, better balance. more of the clay up into the pot, not as bottom heavy as otherwise. So... progress and an approach that I will work on refining. you-tube's that helped; 'Korean potter Lee Sung Ho' Jingdezhen,China, Master thrower ( Tony Wise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
florence w Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Fascinating... Have to give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzine Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Awesome videos, thanks for posting! That would take me a long time, to get where I could do that. That is a large form, for such a tiny wheel head. It is impressively thin too. The only tip, that I could give that potter, would be to cut from under the vase, to show thickness. That way it doesn't get "smooshed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay lover Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Thanks, Florence, I did not know how to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Reed Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzine Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Thank you for that video as well Brian. That video was perfectly shot, edited and the music worked well. I like that it showed the trimming as well. It didn't look like he used any tools at all, other than for trimming. I like how he had clay on his shoulder. I've gotten clay in many places, when throwing, but never on my shoulder. That only happens, when I have to dig into the large reclaim bin. But I am also,not opening mounds of clay, longer than my arm either. I also like how the wall behind him, looks like a single tone Pollock painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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