Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Hot Wax!


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 clay lover

clay lover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 852 posts
  • LocationSoutheast

Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:18 PM

First try, pretty happy with this.  VERY tidy edges to wax, got the larger rectangular Elec skillet so lots of pieces fit in it.  WAY easier cleaning bottoms after spraying that the Forbes wet wax I was using.

How thick does the wax need to be to work well?  I got some beading on the bottoms where the drips cooled.  Should it be as hot as possible without smoking?

I saw some where that Marcia puts mineral oil in the hot wax.  Why?  I just used canning paraffin.  Mea recommended soy wax, but it is very pricy here.  Wish I could find the thread on this that came around not too long ago, but 'search' did not turn it up.



#2 JBaymore

JBaymore

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 2,944 posts
  • LocationWilton, NH USA

Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:15 PM

I specifically use Gulf Wax canning wax.  Best one I have found for consistency when hot.  I often us iwe for resist glaze painting....rather than for feet and such.

 

Keep it below ANY smoking.  Make a mistake... and you'll burn you studio down.... do NOT leave it unattened for even a second.  It goes from smoking to fire in a heartbeat.

 

Have GREAT ventilation... I use a hood right over the pan.  Aeolin fumes are very toxic.

 

best,

 

.......................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#3 Mark C.

Mark C.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,814 posts
  • LocationNear Arcata Ca-redwood rain forest

Posted 07 June 2014 - 01:41 AM

I keep my pan on an sheet of metal outside the stodio door so a fire will not start anywhere. I use canning wax by the case. I have yet to try soy wax from amazon as Mea suggested-it was sold in 10# lots I think-but I have two  or 3 cases of parrifin canning wax to get thru 1st.( I always buy in bulk)We use a lot of wax here. I think the temp was 180-but I can check that in am as far as temp-its not smoking hot.We just get it melted and not much hotter-You learn how long to dip with use. It usually drips one or two drops as you lift say a mug out. We control depth by how much we put in the pan.The wax I get can be broken into 1/4s per box so thats an easy way to melt to different pan levels.

I wax all falt forms in the 14 inch round Dazey pan-and hand wax all footed forms with a sponge with water soluable wax in a 5 gallon bucket that I store in 1 gallon plastic jars.

Mark


Mark Cortright
www.liscomhillpottery.com

#4 Mark C.

Mark C.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,814 posts
  • LocationNear Arcata Ca-redwood rain forest

Posted 07 June 2014 - 06:21 PM

My pan is between keep warm and 200 on the dial.

Mark


Mark Cortright
www.liscomhillpottery.com

#5 clay lover

clay lover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 852 posts
  • LocationSoutheast

Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:03 PM

Me too, Mark, the footed bowls were not good when I tried hot waxing them.  I will look for Gulf Wax.  What about it is better?



#6 oldlady

oldlady

    single firing an electric kiln to cone 6

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 890 posts
  • Locationharpers ferry west va and pinellas park fl

Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:38 PM

I hot wax just outside the door with a large fan running. the hot frying pan is on a large metal tray on a pair of metal sawhorses.  I do heat much hotter than mentioned here.  I find that when the wax is too cool, tiny pinholes form and the glaze gets into them resulting in a fine polkadot pattern on the bottom of my pot.  cannot get this off.

 

since I do not want to burn my fingers and I do have some largish things to glaze, I loaded my long pan with several layers of thick tiles.  this allows the level of wax to be high enough in the pan, 3/4 inches from the top edge, that I can just fit big items without burning my fingers lowering the pot into the bottom of the hot pan. many of my flat items are only 3/8 inches high so I am very careful about the level of wax being just what I need.  heating all those tiles might be why I need the temp higher.

 

I use dead candles that I get from a thrift shop.  they get donations of partly burned candles of all kinds.  I asked them to save them for me rather than throw them out.  a boxful costs $1 and they do not have to pay the trash truck.  this only works at a small thrift shop, the bigger ones just laugh.  too many employees, too much trouble.  cannot use some of them but heck, the price is right.

 

gulf wax is used in canning and is exceptionally pure.  it is called paraffin here in the US.  I think paraffin in the UK is actually LP gas.

 

lamp oil can be added.  I do not like it.


Edited by oldlady, 08 June 2014 - 06:31 PM.

"putting you down does not raise me up."

#7 CarlCravens

CarlCravens

    Long-time Dabbler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 118 posts
  • LocationWichita, KS

Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:58 PM

I hot wax my footed bowls, but you have to deal with the air pocket created if you go straight down... it tends to cause the wax to "blorp" unevenly across the bottom, leaving some parts bare.

 

I hold the bowl at an angle and rotate it around evenly to coat the foot.  If I want to wax the whole interior, I use a cheap natural fiber 1/2" trim paint brush afterward.

 

John B, what is "aeolin"... is that a typo? Google isn't coming up with anything meaningful in the first few pages.

 

Gulf Wax canning wax is (and as far as I know, all canning waxes are) just paraffin... the stuff we (and I personally) have been making candles out of for years.  NIOSH doesn't seem concerned:

 

So unless I'm really missing something (new information I haven't seen yet, etc), can we get some references that show paraffin fumes are toxic?  I'd like to be certain of the information I give people, and possibly change my own practice if necessary.

 

(I hate the word "toxic"... it is meaningless.  Water is toxic... drinking too much of it will kill you.  We all touch, eat and breathe "toxins" every day.  What matters is exposure levels.)


Carl (Wichita, KS)

#8 Babs

Babs

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 977 posts

Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:06 AM

At a certain temp. Paraffin wax fumes have been listed as toxic for a very long time, carcinogenic   is that toxic??

But you are welcome to be the judge of your own destiny with the knowledge you have and the decisions you make, just be careful for others if you choose  to have a studio full of these fumes..



#9 JBaymore

JBaymore

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 2,944 posts
  • LocationWilton, NH USA

Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:05 AM

Below from Digitalfire.com.

 

Note that I am the kinda' guy that says if there is no data available..... then treat the material as if it were hazardous until proven not to be so. Kinda' like basic gun safety....... is that gun loaded?

 

II. Exposure Control/Personal Protection : This material will be used in the molten form. Protective clothing against splashes, thermal gloves, and ocular protection must be worn to prevent wounds. Use the melted material in well ventilated sectors. While working in confined areas, use suitable respiratory protection.

 

G. Products of dangerous decomposition : Carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and other products such as aldehydes and ketones according to the oxidation state, aldehydes being able to be very irritating.

 

I. Experimental Toxicology : In the rat, chronic ingestion showed its accumulation in certain target organs, such as the liver and spleen, associated with nonspecific immune response.

 

II. Absorption : This product is absorbed by the respiratory tract.

 

III. Acute Effects :

 

A. Inhalation : If heated it emits paraffin wax fumes : - possible irritation of the eyes and the respiratory tract, more particularly in sensitive individuals - nausea.

IV. Chronic Effects : Inhalation of aerosols (if heated) : - cough - sputum production - exertional shortness of breath - possibility of pulmonary damage (lipoidic pneumonia) - alveolitis and interstitial fibrosis.

 

V. Pregnancy :

 

A. Effects on development : No data concerning antenatal development was found in the consulted documentary sources. B Effects on the reproduction : No data concerning reproduction was found in the consulted documentary sources. C Data on the mother's milk : There is no data concerning excretion or detection in mother's milk.

 

VI. Carcinogenic Effects : The available data do not make it possible to make an adequate evaluation of the carcinogenic effect.

 

VII. Mutagenic Effects : No data concerning a mutagenic in vivo or in vitro effect on cells of mammals was found in the consulted documentary sources.


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#10 JBaymore

JBaymore

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 2,944 posts
  • LocationWilton, NH USA

Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:10 AM

 What matters is exposure levels.)

 

You are absolutely correct with that statement.  It is the CORE of toxicological study. 

 

However the real ISSUE in most artist's studios is that they have NO idea WHAT the exposure level is.  THAT is the reason to treat materials with great respect.  In many, many cases ... that respect will be overkill. 

 

And what produces "safe" conditions and works in one artists studio and studio practice... is not necessarliy going to be the same in another situation.  So one person's experiential information may not hold up in another's world....and be misleading.

 

Those levels of contaminants relative to working practices can be studied (stuff like air sampling)....... most artists won't spend the $ to do that.

 

So we are then back to 'gun safety'....... is the gun loaded?  If you don't KNOW....... well.... you get the idea.

 

best,

 

..........................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#11 Mark C.

Mark C.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,814 posts
  • LocationNear Arcata Ca-redwood rain forest

Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:07 PM

Parowax is what I use -buy it 2-4 cases at a time for price breaks-use about a case a year to a year and a1/2.

It parrifin-( I have used candles that where given to me as well)

Those fry pan dials are vastly inaccurate but we have it hot enough to not leave tiny bubbles.

for waxing footed forms I use Mobilizer-A from Laguna clay-in 5 gallon bucket-this lasts about 5 years.This wax is an industry standard-it comes in pints-gallon and 5 gallons-I have tried manu waxes and like this one the best.I kile to have a spare bucket on hand-as running out of stuff for me is a pain I choose not to experience.

We go thru wax around here like a hot knife in butter.

We do not wash our bisque ware-This step alone would put me out of business

I'll post a photo of todays bisque load so you can see what this means

I sponge it with a wet sponge when green (less dust)-ocassionally will use sandpaper on bisque ware if it has a sharp spot

Mark


Mark Cortright
www.liscomhillpottery.com

#12 JBaymore

JBaymore

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 2,944 posts
  • LocationWilton, NH USA

Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:23 PM

  I will look for Gulf Wax.  What about it is better?

 

First of all, I mainly use hot wax for resist decoration, glaze on glaze.  While I use hot wax on SOME stuff for keeping glaze off raw clay where I don't want it, that is a secondary use.  (Mostly I use a fettling knofe and/or wipe it off with a sponge...... as fast of FASTER than waxing unless you are dipping in wax.)

 

Ove the years I have found the hot consistency of varying "parafins" from various sources do behave differently.  And for what I do..... I have found the Gulf Wax btrand seems to work best.  I've run out on occasion and had to buy whatever was available,... and somtimes it is absolute CRAP.  May work for canning....... not for decorative brushing.

 

While it works for others in their uses, I've tried the "add other stuff" to the wax business ... and it also have never given me the line quality and surface quality to penetrate the first glaze layer well and then resist the glazes over that.

 

best,

 

.....................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#13 Mark C.

Mark C.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,814 posts
  • LocationNear Arcata Ca-redwood rain forest

Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:42 PM

(First of all, I mainly use hot wax for resist decoration, glaze on glaze)

 

This is not what I do with wax but I do some of this with latex

I should try this John with hot wax sometime.

Mark


Mark Cortright
www.liscomhillpottery.com

#14 JBaymore

JBaymore

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 2,944 posts
  • LocationWilton, NH USA

Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:01 PM

This is not what I do with wax but I do some of this with latex

I should try this John with hot wax sometime.

 

Mark,

 

If you get it at the right temp and applied quickly and fluidly, the wax instantly soaks right into the underlying glaze layer. Not just resisting on the surface.... gets "inside" all the way into the bisque. Dip or pour the next glaze and that new wet glaze sheets right off that waxed spot like a downpour off a RainX coated car windshield.

 

You can also do this and then wash off the area with a sponge and water....... leaving the waxed spot with the original glaze safely sealed right there. Then do the next bit of "layering".

 

Sometimes I'll put a glaze trail on an area I want to do this. Then paint on the wax onto the glaze trail. Then glaze the rest of the piece. Sometimes the whole piece gets a coat of glaze 1 and then wax and then all covered in glaze 2.

 

One "standard" for me still is a kaki (persimmon) glaze that is then waxed in a pattern and then a tenmoku over it all..... ala' Hamada Shoji and Hamada Shinsaku. I got this technique from studying Hamada-sensei a LONG time ago. In fact I still have some supply here in NH of the ground rock known colloquially as "Mashiko Stone". That rock IS the Mashiko kaki (persimmon) glaze. Pretty much reserved for special pieces.

 

Personally, for the way I work.... I HATE liquid wax resist and latex. I'll take the risks of the hot wax pan.

 

best,

 

......................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#15 CarlCravens

CarlCravens

    Long-time Dabbler

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 118 posts
  • LocationWichita, KS

Posted 09 June 2014 - 04:14 PM

Thanks, John... I appreciate the response.


Carl (Wichita, KS)

#16 High Bridge Pottery

High Bridge Pottery

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 426 posts
  • LocationNewcastle Upon Tyne. England

Posted 09 June 2014 - 05:23 PM

I have been wanting to start waxing my work for a while but never tried it. I throw mostly small sized things and want to use the wax to stop the foot/bottom being glazed. Not sure if I should go hot or cold. I want this to speed up my glazing and sharpen up my glaze lines. I don't mind sponging but I always get a fluffy edge to the glaze. Could I just paint on wax where I want the line to be then wipe under that?

 

I am not sure. Maybe I will just have to take more care sponging.



#17 Pugaboo

Pugaboo

    Lifetime artist 2nd year potter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 388 posts
  • LocationHelen, GA

Posted 09 June 2014 - 05:30 PM

I find I get a sharper line using a make up sponge than I do with a brush. Make up sponges have nice sharp edges, are very dense so they hold their shape, super cheap, and last a good long while. With a brush I always thought my edge was okay but to get a really nice straight line took forever compared to using a make up sponge.

I have had a terrible time putting the wax in a tray and dipping the bottom there always seems to be a burp of wax that messes up one tiny spot. Know there is a way of doing it since everybody seems to but the technique seems to be eluding me for the moment. I do not use hot wax just pottery wax that I tried pouring into a baking sheet then sitting the piece in the tray. I worked really well once of twice but not consistently. I will not use hot wax... Studio is underneath my house and even the porch outside is under the room upstairs so liquid wax is my only option.

Terry
The world is but a canvas to the imagination - Henry David Thoreau

#18 High Bridge Pottery

High Bridge Pottery

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 426 posts
  • LocationNewcastle Upon Tyne. England

Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:35 PM

Thanks Terry. I think I will just buy some liquid wax and give it a go.



#19 oldlady

oldlady

    single firing an electric kiln to cone 6

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 890 posts
  • Locationharpers ferry west va and pinellas park fl

Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:46 PM

 as Carl says above, a round item with a foot ring or flat base will burp the wax, liquid or hot liquid, if you simply set it down flat.  do not do that.  check the level of wax in your container and set the edge of the pot at an angle and slowly roll the pot around on its edge so the entire thing is covered to the correct level.  this sounds complicated but it is simply like a flick of the wrist, you have to try it to see. carl says rotate, he is correct. 

 

picture a child's top spinning.  as it winds down it will touch an edge on the floor and roll around on it's edge.  that is what I am trying to describe. wish you could just watch it!!

 

practice with a flat pan of water and a bisque pot.  that way you can see how wet the bottom gets and imagine that it is wax.  watch what happens closely. you may notice that it helps to have the liquid level.  use a carpenter's level to get it right. the water practice also shows you how deep the wax should be to get the line you want.


"putting you down does not raise me up."

#20 Pres

Pres

    Retired Art Teacher

  • Moderators
  • 2,021 posts
  • LocationCentral, PA

Posted 10 June 2014 - 09:01 AM

I have a tendency to use both liquid and hot wax when working.

 

When using hot wax with footed bowls I don't have as much of the blurp problem as I have holes near the base of the foot to allow air to escape when waxing. The real reason is that it allows the water to run out to the foot when in the dishwasher. Two birds with one stone so to speak.  I love using hot wax on the bottom of chalice stems, as it gets me a nice even line with little effort. Sources of wax? Long time ago the home ec department in our school got out of doing crafts-through out about two garbage cans of candle paraffin. I rescued one for myself and one for the Ceramics studio. Last I knew they were still using it in the electric skillet I bought for it. With kids you never leave it unsupervised!  Even in HS they want to dip fingers in it etc-burns are not fun for teachers these days!

 

Liquid wax I use mostly on plates and larger pieces that will not fit in my electric fry pan. Jars I usually do not wax-just too big as the same with casseroles etc. I use a damp sponge to carefully remove the edge to the beveled drip edge I put in when trimming the pot.

 

When still teaching I bought a wax over glaze liquid wax resist that worked really well, and the green die in it helped to see where you applied the resist. This material worked really well for some effects.

 

Lately I have been experimenting with canned spray on varnish materials used as a resist, but only experiments. I really don't know what these will do to kiln elements or how clean the burn is, but I assume that the paraffin is pretty dirty in the kiln.


Simply retired teacher, not dead, living the dream. on and on and. . . . on. . . .                                                                                 http://picworkspottery.blogspot.com/





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users