Perry1 Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Hi All, I was given a kiln and am new to ceramics. Question. This Kiln has a thermocouple. Once I test it with a cone to verify it is heating to cone 5 do I need to use a cone every time? Any help would be appreciated. Perry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Yes you actually need one on each side of your cone 5 cone as well that would be a cone 4 and a cone 6-its written on every cone box as well with instructions. That way you know what actually happened after the fire.Thernocouples are crude guidlines off whats going on. This board is filled with threads from folks who fire without cones and wonder what happened. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 How large is your kiln (how many cu.ft. does it hold)? With only one thermocouple, you only get a temperature reading for the middle part of the kiln; the top and bottom could be firing higher/lower. If the kiln is a regular size kiln -- say 6 to 7 cu.ft. capacity, you need to have cone packs (4/5/6 as Mark recommended) on the top shelf, middle shelf, and lower shelf to get a true reading of how accurate the thermocouple is reading temperature. For bisque firings, same thing ... cone pack with target cone in middle and one higher/lower on the ends. If you had a multi-zone kiln with multiple thermocouples, you could do periodic checks with cones; but with a single zone/thermocouple, cones are your best friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJR Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 The old guys used to bisque to a good red colour. They also used to pull draw rings to see if the glaze was melted. Cones are not expensive. Why not use them? TJR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I never ever put cones in my firings, because I know my kilns and glazes well and can tell if they are under or over fired. Putting a cone in there won't help me. But if you don't know your glazes well, and don't know your kiln's personality, then it's not a bad idea to help you figure out what's going on inside your kiln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglou13 Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I'm with Neil once kiln is known why use cones every time. We still run ocassional single cone as a QC. But when cone was acting up or while,calibrating it we used 3 cones and In multiple parts of kiln. We have a recently repaired kiln that is test firing now with one cone 05 Orton cone. I'd have run 04, 05, 06. But studio is out of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 This is one I answered assuming as they were new to ceramics as mentioned.(I was given a kiln and am new to ceramics.) Until they know from experience put the darn cones in I'm more like the old guys TJR mentioned . I have not used a bisque cone in my gas kiln for 25-30 years I do use one in the electric bisque as its hooked to my cone sitter/shut off. As far a glaze fires in the gas kiln I use two myself to gauge the heat work I recommend you use cones until you master that kiln. This will take a while .As bciskepottery said put them in on all levels until you know whats going on. It sounds weird saying you need to use cones but I do not- so I choose to say use them until you know otherwise. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmism Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 The studio i throw at has 3 electric kilns. 2 they bisque in and fire ^6 in the third. The bisque ones run almost contentiously. The guy who runs them knows them well enough that he does not use cones on them. But then again he is setting a bisque fire up twice a week for most of the year. He does still use 3 cones (9-10-11) for the cone 10 redux in the large gas kiln. My point, after you get to know how your kilns fire, its likely you wont have to use cones in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugaboo Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I agree with all the advice, until you know the kiln use cones in each shelf. I am fairly new to clay a little over a year and when I first got my kiln I put the 3 cone regimen on each shelf. I also recommend saving these cones marked with the date for future reference in case the kiln goes wonky in the future you can look back and see okay on such and such a date it did this on this shelf. Now that I know how each level fires in my kiln I just put 1 cone in the center every time but also put the 3 cones in every so many firings. I also highly recommend a kiln notebook in which you write the type, cone, length of every firing in for the same reason so you can look to the past and say hmmm it usually fires a load of bisque like this in 15 hours but now it's taking 20! (Just an example it's not happened yet thank goodness) Tells you something might be wrong then you can fire with the full regimen of cones to help figure out where the issue is. My kiln notebook basically says this: Date_____ Bisque Firing #__ or Glaze Firing #__ Meter start___ Meter end____ Time Start___ Time End____ Temperature Start____ Temperature End____ Slow Bisque or Slow Glaze or Fast Glaze, etc Cone 04, or Cone 6, etc Temp 1945 or 2236 respectively Preheat length, if I do any Hold length, if I do one Total number of firings done with this set of elements Plus a bunch of settings from the controller about alarms and such Load: Then I list the type items in the kiln, how many shelves I used, etc. This helps if there is an issue to see Ahhh if I use 5 shelves loaded with plates it takes an hour longer to fire than if I use 3 shelves with bowls. Finally I write: Whether it completes successfully The duration in hours and minutes Max temp recorded The results of the pieces in it: as in bisque on 4th shelf all cracked... Why? Or glaze on the top shelf looks different than the rest of the kiln... Did I put the shelf too close to the lid? Stuff like that just so I can learn and not keep repeating the same mistakes. Or the best one: everything is GORGEOUS! Lol Put the cones in it will make your life easier in the future. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pres Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I have been firing the same electric kiln for over 25 years. In the beginning, I fired packs in two levels, and placed singles of my ^6 glaze temp at different places on every shelf. After about 10 firings I moved to one cone pack at the center for all loads. The last 5 years, I fire the kiln with no cone in the bisquefire. I fire to color temp only then (yellow orange). I know what temp this is from firing so many years with cone packs in bisque. It is a specific color that I know, inherently. I only got here because I had years of firing with cones. So my best advise is to follow the advise of others, and figure you are on a journey to learn as much as possible about your kiln, and the way it fires. Sometimes the learning curve can be steep, and with lots of stumbles. Best, Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamt Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 One thing only touched on briefly in the above is kiln condition, specifically elements. Is your kiln oldish? I have been using a used kiln that I purchased for a couple of years. I got into the habit of using a cone pack, especially for my cone 5/6 firings. The kiln controller began erroring out, cones showed underfiring. Time for new elements. The cones and my firing log really helped narrow it down to the elements (rather than some other issue). Since you are new to ceramics and your kiln, you should use the cones to help you understand what is going on inside your kiln. Good luck Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry1 Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Thank you everybody for your help. I will be getting some cones before fire anything. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry1 Posted May 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Where do you all get your cones? The nearest supply center is an hour and a half away. The Big Ceramics Store online seems to be having a problem with their checkout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bciskepottery Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Most pottery equipment sellers/distributors have them online . . . Baileys, Baltimore Clayworks, Blick, Laguna, even Amazon. Google Orton Cones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugaboo Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I get mine online from Clayking.com. Have also gotten them from Big Ceramic Superstore as well. Any Ceramics store or website should have them. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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