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Super Amateur Needs Help With Porosity

porosity terracotta slip

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#21 geremyh

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 04:28 PM

and I feel I addressed the question before it was even asked. 

 

 If the vessel is half glazed then it would be half as porous as a fully unglazed, right? And would be an artful addition.

 

So I was between a rock and a hard place. go off topic to explain it, or ignore it knowing full well it was gonna come back to bite me. I chose the later. I see your point though in that maybe I was a little too hard nosed.



#22 Min

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 08:35 PM

LMAO!!!! :D

 

LMAO2!!!! :)



#23 Colby Charpentier

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 08:59 PM

well i guess it's time for me to address the issue. Many admins and moderators of forums HATE off topic stuff in threads. It is frowned upon because it makes it difficult for people to find the information they want and need and expect to find in a thread. Also it costs money to store threads on the servers they pay for and I can say with some certainty they don't want to pay for someone's ramblings.  The topic is porosity of clay and there is some good info here regarding that topic. If you want to talk about the importance of something being glazed when it's going to be buried in the ground then I feel I'm not talking to actual artists who wish to beautify and better this world through their chosen medium with expressive talents. Just here to push my buttons for the sake of getting a reaction. Now that I've gotten the information I need by all means let's talk about 'if it's buried in the soil, who would see the glazing?  '

 

I'm a business owner and a consumer too. Take this image for instance.Nanny.jpg

That's functional, utilitarian, and ugly to me. Without discussing my ACTUAL designs I would much rather buy the one on Home Depot's shelf that had some artistic glazing instead of the one in the image above. Maybe some nice blue streaks or who knows just something colorful. As a CEO, marketing exec, and the CFO it's important for my product to stand out from the others. So here I am in a meeting and someone shows me a mock up, you know what I'm going to say? "Put some colorful stripes or something on that thing and then get back to me." 

Now someone paid good money says to me "But it's going to be buried in the ground, nobody is going to see it."

Then I say "If I need to explain why I want some colors on that terracotta then don't show up for work tomorrow."

 

I have to say, I would much rather admit I'm buying a cheap product than purchase a decorated product, likely at a higher price.



#24 Benzine

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:15 PM

and I feel I addressed the question before it was even asked. 
 

If the vessel is half glazed then it would be half as porous as a fully unglazed, right? And would be an artful addition.

 
So I was between a rock and a hard place. go off topic to explain it, or ignore it knowing full well it was gonna come back to bite me. I chose the later. I see your point though in that maybe I was a little too hard nosed.

To be fair, you addressed the point one post before, and only several minutes before. mss may have not seen, that the thread had been updated.

In terms of the glazing, how much of the vessel will be visible, above the ground? I can honestly see, that an unglazed brown, reddish-brown being desirable, if a person doesn't want the vessel to stand out. Are you planning on using the wine bottles as well?
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#25 bciskepottery

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:39 PM

Having followed the link to the olla that was buried in the garden bed with only the top of the neck visible, I was a bit baffled by the idea of glazing or using glazing to affect the rate of water seepage into the soil. Fast forward to the pix of the plant nanny device, and the idea of glazing (or using colored slip, engobes, or terra sig to add some color interest becomes more apparent. Maybe others were a bit like me and had trouble imaging the glaze part because we were thinking of a large bulb under the soil.

That said, glaze on the top is an option, but if you only do the part that is above ground, it will not affect porosity or the rate at which the water seeps. Other options for adding color/interest are colored stains or engobes; one advantage there is you could probably just do a single fire and save time/money vs. glazing which would likely involve two firings (bisque and glaze). At low fire temperatures, you might be able to get away with applying decals. With a glaze, or any colorant, you need to think about the potential for the durability of the glaze/colorant and whether or not it could leak into the soil and become a contaminant.

As a consumer, I like the plain terracotta; don't have to worry about colors clashing with type of flowers/plant in the planter. Plus, I want the focus on the flower/plant, not the pot/water feeder. Just my preference. As I've learned making vases, some folks like a muted colored vase, others want bright colors. So, I make some of each.

#26 Tyler Miller

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:40 PM

Is it porosity you want, or something more along the lines of osmosis, keeping the soil at a constant moisture level?  I feel like beyond a certain porosity, you'll have more water come out than is desirable.  Simple, plain terracotta may be the way to go.

 

I'm eager to see the results of your experimentation.  If it isn't too proprietary, that is.



#27 High Bridge Pottery

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 04:59 AM

Try and bring no assumptions to forum posts. There is no right way to think, just opinions.

 

In a business meeting you may expect some agreement in artistic value and design to be preordained because of your similar societies and educations but here we are from all over the world. Start with a smile and be patient, you never know where it might lead.



#28 geremyh

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 05:11 AM

redacted



#29 Tyler Miller

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 08:48 AM

Okay, geremyh, this is what you're going to do.  You're going to make 50 or so prototypes to test your product.  10 to be bisqued to a low cone.  Say, cone 010.  Then 10 bisqued to cone 06-04.  Then 10 bisqued to cone 02.  You're then going to make 10 with paper pulp in the clay, 10 with perlite.

 

For each 10 prototypes, you're going to test 3 in loam soil, 3 in sand, and 3 in heavy clay.  Hook each prototype up to a plastic hose or pipe similar to your design and hook up that hose/pipe to container with measurement marks on it.  Test the flow that way, with an average of the three of each type being your significant number.  The final one of each will be for destruction testing for durability.

 

After this, repeat the experiment with your decorative glaze added.  Maybe only the worthwhile ones to save money/time.  The cone 010 will likely have to be excluded--you're going to have a tough time finding a cone 010 glaze.

 

I think as a courtesy to us, as we have freely offered up information to you, you should publish the results of your experiment here.  No design details, just the results of your experiment which betrays nothing proprietary.

 

Then, I think you should apologize for misrepresenting yourself.  In your initial post, you said you were a "super amateur" looking for help with "gifts."  On your last posts, this is a business venture.  If you're a business owner/CEO, dishonestly asking for free R&D isn't cool.  If the reverse is true, and you're just an amateur, lying about your professional status to save face isn't cool either.  I apologize for being a little stern, we're an honest group filled with goodwill here, dishonesty would kill the convivial spirit.  I like the people here a lot.



#30 Benzine

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:25 AM

The upside down wine bottles, definitely isn't my taste. I've seen the aftermath of various parties, where planters end up being the resting place, for many a cigarette butt and upside down beer bottle jammed neck first into the soil. The wine bottle system, reminds me of that. If a person was going to have some type of vessel feeding the one below, that's something I'd want decorative and glazed, as opposed to a used wine bottle. To me, the bottle is just better off going back to the recycling plant, as opposed to be repurposed.
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#31 Min

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 10:11 AM

Then, I think you should apologize for misrepresenting yourself.  In your initial post, you said you were a "super amateur" looking for help with "gifts."  On your last posts, this is a business venture.  If you're a business owner/CEO, dishonestly asking for free R&D isn't cool.  If the reverse is true, and you're just an amateur, lying about your professional status to save face isn't cool either.  I apologize for being a little stern, we're an honest group filled with goodwill here, dishonesty would kill the convivial spirit.  I like the people here a lot.

 

Well said.



#32 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 10:36 AM

The upside down wine bottles, definitely isn't my taste. I've seen the aftermath of various parties, where planters end up being the resting place, for many a cigarette butt and upside down beer bottle jammed neck first into the soil. The wine bottle system, reminds me of that. If a person was going to have some type of vessel feeding the one below, that's something I'd want decorative and glazed, as opposed to a used wine bottle. To me, the bottle is just better off going back to the recycling plant, as opposed to be repurposed.

Hey- stay on topic- parties have not been mentioned yet! LOL!!!! 


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#33 Benzine

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 11:33 AM

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not an artist and teacher, as I have claimed. I am actually a cheetah in a man suit....
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#34 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 04:45 PM

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not an artist and teacher, as I have claimed. I am actually a cheetah in a man suit....

no wonder you seemed curiously attractive :P  I thought it was your throwing pose…. 


Learning On my Kick wheel with my vintage Paragon (from the late 1960's)

#35 Babs

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:43 PM

Perhaps loooking at this, you guys are so touchy these days :rolleyes: , from the soil in to which these pots are placed, how about improving the water holding property of the soil by adding clay you are too busy to recycle, bentonite, left overs from the raku reducing bins, or a host of other stuff you have in your clay studio, non toxic of course. Then perhaps this would reduce the need for different porosity.

Wine Bottle, I used to use flagons with the bottoms cut off by lighting a string which had been dipped in meths, tied tightly around the flagon and then dipped inot a bucket of water. These, if green glass could be used also for mini cloches over seedlings.

Have I gone off topic? :)



#36 High Bridge Pottery

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 10:22 AM

Perhaps loooking at this, you guys are so touchy these days :rolleyes: , from the soil in to which these pots are placed, how about improving the water holding property of the soil by adding clay you are too busy to recycle, bentonite, left overs from the raku reducing bins, or a host of other stuff you have in your clay studio, non toxic of course. Then perhaps this would reduce the need for different porosity.

Wine Bottle, I used to use flagons with the bottoms cut off by lighting a string which had been dipped in meths, tied tightly around the flagon and then dipped inot a bucket of water. These, if green glass could be used also for mini cloches over seedlings.

Have I gone off topic? :)

 

Babs you should sell this information to junkies, I always used to see them swirling rocks around the bottom of wine bottles to make smoking paraphernalia.



#37 Babs

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:14 PM

 

Perhaps loooking at this, you guys are so touchy these days :rolleyes: , from the soil in to which these pots are placed, how about improving the water holding property of the soil by adding clay you are too busy to recycle, bentonite, left overs from the raku reducing bins, or a host of other stuff you have in your clay studio, non toxic of course. Then perhaps this would reduce the need for different porosity.

Wine Bottle, I used to use flagons with the bottoms cut off by lighting a string which had been dipped in meths, tied tightly around the flagon and then dipped inot a bucket of water. These, if green glass could be used also for mini cloches over seedlings.

Have I gone off topic? :)

 

Babs you should sell this information to junkies, I always used to see them swirling rocks around the bottom of wine bottles to make smoking paraphernalia.

 

Nah, leave them swirling rocks, some things shouldn't be fast tracked!

Doubt if wine is marketed in flagons anymore, sigh!



#38 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:17 AM

All i know is that i keep reading the word wine…. so to stay on topic lets get back to talking about wine. ;)


Learning On my Kick wheel with my vintage Paragon (from the late 1960's)

#39 Colby Charpentier

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:12 PM

All i know is that i keep reading the word wine…. so to stay on topic lets get back to talking about wine. ;)

 

I think all the "whine" occurred earlier in the thread :P



#40 Chilly

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 04:44 PM

So, here I am sitting in the dark, everyone else is asleep and I'm trying my hardest not to laugh out loud.  

 

Personally, I use leaky pipe to water the garden, much easier after it's laid out and buried to just turn on the tap.  (Piped or rain water, both work just as well.)


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