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Milk Bath?


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#1 Stellaria

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:27 AM

Has anyone seen these pretty brown pots from the Ukraine? https://www.etsy.com...ade-of-red-clay

From what I've gathered from the vague descriptions of the process in her various listings, the pieces are bisqued, then soaked in whole milk, then fired a second time to 950°C which gives them a glaze-y, supposedly foodsafe finish.

Has anyone here tried this? I'm seriously intrigued. I was thinking of giving it a try with Runyan's Red-Brown Body, as it has a very wide firing range.

#2 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:43 AM

I think it is related to a way of sealing similar to obvara. Janice Chassier talked about it in her presentation at NCECA. 

You might want to contact her at JaniceChassier.com

She was in Ukraine collecting information about Obvara and variations.

 

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#3 Stellaria

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:19 AM

Here's another piece done by a different Ukrainian potter, with a slightly different description of the process (she fires to a higher temp)
https://www.etsy.com...ew_type=gallery

#4 Wyndham

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:37 PM

Here's where I see an issue, look at the prices. A pot shipped from Europe, sold on etsy for $15 and the potter makes a living & the seller made a profit, how does this fit?

Yea, we're discussing technique and I'm off topic but anybody else see the 800 lb gorilla?

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#5 Stellaria

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:50 PM

I doubt the potter is making a living from their etsy shop. It did make me wonder what the cost of living is there, and how much $15 US gets them....

#6 Mark C.

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

Something does not ADD Up
It's not a gorilla it's an import sham most likley.
If it sounds to got well you know the rest.
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#7 Stephen

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:01 PM

yeah I was born on Saturday, but not last Saturday,

 

 "...glazed with the milk of a domestic village cow"



#8 ayjay

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:48 PM

Is anyone else seeing some strong similarities between those two pots, in both form and decoration?



#9 neilestrick

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:59 PM

Etsy is now full of mass produced items. For instance, try finding hand made leather goods there and you'll see that 90% are from China or India or some other country with cheap labor. They put up a fake identity to make it look like it's a person in their studio making the work, but it's clearly factory made stuff. Yes, those pots were decorated by hand and probably formed by hand, too, but it was most likely done in a factory setting. Etsy is slowly turning in Amazon. I've lost a lot of respect for the site.


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#10 Stellaria

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:35 PM

The pieces don't look at all the same to me, between the two sellers. One is clearly selling better-formed work.

#11 Diane Puckett

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 12:37 PM

Interesting article http://cultkiev.com/...aven-born-craft .

I am trying to figure out what substance in cow's milk would not burn out in a firing. It is only about 70 miles from Kiev to Chernobyl.
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#12 Min

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:24 PM

 Interesting article http://cultkiev.com/...aven-born-craft .

I am trying to figure out what substance in cow's milk would not burn out in a firing. It is only about 70 miles from Kiev to Chernobyl.

 

Radioactive calcium and magnesium?  ;)



#13 bciskepottery

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:58 PM

I am trying to figure out what substance in cow's milk would not burn out in a firing. It is only about 70 miles from Kiev to Chernobyl.


Back a bit, we had this thread w/videos. The Tibetan potters sealed their low-fire wares with a mixture of barley powder and yogurt whey.

http://community.cer...tter#entry53400

Wonder if the Ukrainians are using raw, unpasteurized milk? And, would chocolate milk give you a tenmoko?

#14 Min

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:34 PM

 

I am trying to figure out what substance in cow's milk would not burn out in a firing. It is only about 70 miles from Kiev to Chernobyl.


Back a bit, we had this thread w/videos. The Tibetan potters sealed their low-fire wares with a mixture of barley powder and yogurt whey.

http://community.cer...tter#entry53400

Wonder if the Ukrainians are using raw, unpasteurized milk? And, would chocolate milk give you a tenmoko?

 

 

So, do you think it would work like an old school casein glue to seal the inside? Maybe something else mixed with milk? With the translation of the second link from Stellaria it seems like the milk is fired into the pot. Perhaps it is just a very low carbonization of the "glaze" turning the pots blackish? Prices seem dirt cheap, (pun intended) but then I don't know the cost of living in that part of the world.



#15 bciskepottery

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:07 PM

My guess is the milk would burn out during firing, so I think you'd apply it post firing -- similar to what's shown in the Tibetan video. Sounds interesting, often described in on-line articles as water repellant.

#16 Stellaria

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:33 PM

The listings of both potters say that they are "bathed" or otherwise covered in milk and then fired again. One of them calls it "double kilning".

I threw a bowl today that I actually *gasp!* surface decorated, which I will soak in milk after bisque firing. I'll re-bisque after that and see what happens. And yes, it will be whole, unpasteurized milk. Not chocolate :P

#17 Tom Banfield

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:01 PM

I have been experimenting with milk firing for a while. The bisque fired pots are soaked in whole milk for 10 to 15 minutes, then allowed to thoroughly dry. They are then heated to 600f to 650f and held their until the desired color is achieved. Any hotter and the milk burns off. Once cooled the pots seem to be water tight. I have had some success, but haven't achieved the evenness I see in the Russian/Ukranian pieces.
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#18 neilestrick

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:23 PM

http://www.ars.usda....05/milk1105.pdf


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#19 Tom Banfield

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:32 PM

I just posted a picture of a piece I did in the milk a couple weeks ago.
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#20 Min

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:52 PM

I have been experimenting with milk firing for a while. The bisque fired pots are soaked in whole milk for 10 to 15 minutes, then allowed to thoroughly dry. They are then heated to 600f to 650f and held their until the desired color is achieved. Any hotter and the milk burns off. Once cooled the pots seem to be water tight. I have had some success, but haven't achieved the evenness I see in the Russian/Ukranian pieces.

 

Very Interesting!

 

 

 

 

Would be great if this process could be developed into a viable replacement for BPA on tin can lining.

 

Thanks






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