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Real-Time Kiln Advice (Kiln Curently Firing)


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#141 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:45 AM

Literally as you were typing this, I was standing here at the computer, looking over my husband's shoulder as he read and re-read everything (again), saying to him, "How do you check a regulator?"  And he replied, "Just buy a new one!"  We really are comprehending all this information - it's just difficult to sort through it sometimes (children screaming, pots boiling over, etc.)

 

We are searching for a low-pressure, high-volume regulator.  We may have found on here:  http://gashosesandre...regulators.html

 

 Low Pressure Propane Twin Stage Regulator Twin stage regulators combine first and second stage regulators into a single unit.  They are designed to reduce tank pressure to a preset 11" WC delivery pressure. Manually adjustable from 9" to 13" WC Equipped with 1/8" FNPT pressure gauge taps on inlet and outlet for easy system pressure checks.  Supplied with a 60" thermoplastic high pressure hose outfitted with a model 204051 Full Flow, POL tank connector.  Gas outlet is 3/4" FNPT.  Flexible 3/4" ID low pressure outlet gas hose may be found on our Natural Gas Hose webpage.  Supplied with GR-905 mounting bracket shown below.  Dimensions: 7.5"L x 5.5"W x 4.75"H  Weight 3# 15 oz.  Free shipping.

525,000 btu/hr maximum output  Perfect for small cabins using portable tanks

 

GR9412 gr9412_small.jpg 132.50

 

Would this fit the bill?

 

I think that changing the regulator and moving the tanks into the sun (which isn't possible, but let's pretend it is) - this counts as a single change.

 

I will right now find links to various posts about this kiln and post them.



#142 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:51 AM

Oh, my.  I ask an awful lot of questions.  Here are posts regarding this kiln:

 

When I first brought it home:  http://community.cer...t-would-you-do/

 

How to add a chimney:  http://community.cer...ersion-of-mine/

 

How to build the roof:  http://community.cer...ance-from-kiln/

 

After I fired it once:  http://community.cer...converted-kiln/

 

After the second firing:  http://community.cer...ney/#entry53295

 

And, of course, this thread started eight pages ago, during the third firing.



#143 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:51 AM

We need to have some sort of incredible community party when I finally figure out how to make it work.



#144 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:55 AM

This is the youtube video I intended to post, showing the flame coming through one shelf, down between the stacks of shelves, and out the chimney.  (Well, you can't see all of that, but you can at least see the type of flame it is).  

 



#145 JBaymore

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:57 AM

WOAH!

 

I just went to the Ward Burner site...... and it looks like that regulator pictured there is a San Marco Model 290.  Is that what you have?

 

On his site Marc says it handles "6 times the volume of a gas grill regulator".  Great.... totally usless info...... means nothing.  I just went to the bother to look up that regulator from the supplier.... and found some interesting facts.

 

On the MANUFACTURERS product information sheet for that unit (if I am looking at the right one....and I am pretty sure I am) it says that it can pass only 160,000 BTUs per hour of propane.  Seems to me that is less than the theoretical rating of your burners output.  Right? 

 

So the regulator is the "engine governor" on the engine of your kiln.  No matter what the burners are set up to handle (their orifice sizes) the regulator will supply them with no more than 160,000 BTUs per hour.

 

Another key piece of information here......... but I can't verify this as is needed from here. 

 

On the MANUFACTURERS product information sheet for that unit, that regulator is supposed to output 11" water column.  You have mentioned that your guages are reading about 5" to 5 1/2" Water Column.  Now those guages are on the OUTPUT siode of the ball valve and between that and the orifices... so that would not be expected to show line pressure.  BUT......... a pressuure drop down to 5" if the line supply is 11" is very telling of the volume issue. 

 

As I remember.... (haven't looked back yet) your kiln is just over 20 cubic feet inside.  And also it is not all that greatly insulated.  For an IFB constructed kiln with a wall and roof and floor insulation rating that you could say was the insulating equivalent of a graded refractory 9" thick wall....... I use a "rule of thumb" figure of 10,000 BTU per hour per cubic foot of chamber.  Your kiln is slightly less well insuilated than that (don't know the precise matrerials so can't calculate it exactly) so for sure you need 200,000 BTUs/ hour of total input.

 

You need 200,000....... you likely HAVE 160,000........ hum.  What's wrong with this picture?

 

Unless Marc Ward is modifying those stock regulators...... or the specs have changed........ or the sheet I found is wrong........ I think that is a real concern here.

 

PM me your email address and I can send you the manuifacturer's .pdf file of the regulator product sheet if you want it.

 

best,

 

.....................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#146 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 11:02 AM

No, that's not the regulator I have.  The one I have says "Gas-Flo Low Pressure Two Stage LP Gas Regulator" on it.  I don't see it on the Ward Burner site.  I'm having a difficult time finding a web site for the manufacturer, but various resellers list it as 195,000 BTU/HR capacity.



#147 JBaymore

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 11:09 AM

Who supplied it? Marc?

 

What does it say on the housing?

 

best,

 

.................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#148 JBaymore

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 11:18 AM

Does it have Model # R-9950 or 9959 on the round part?

 

best,

 

..............john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#149 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 11:49 AM

Marc supplied it, and it's model R-9950.



#150 Mark C.

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:18 PM

Heres a model that does 750,000 btu-output 3-35 psi

They have a few others as well.

Its a propane outlet shop-you could call them for the real specs.

Most of these cheap regulators have no specs about them-so calling a place for real specs may be worthwhile.

http://propanewareho...ail.asp?ID=2001

heres the spec sheet on these

http://www.documenta...d450130t012.pdf

Looks like forge folks use this regualtor a lot.

you still need another tank or two to gang together.

 

Mark


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www.liscomhillpottery.com

#151 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 06:47 PM

Ohmyword, I'm confused again.  I thought that if I bought a high-pressure regulator, I'd have to switch the orifice.  But if I went low-pressure, I wouldn't.



#152 JBaymore

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 07:10 PM

Ohmyword, I'm confused again.  I thought that if I bought a high-pressure regulator, I'd have to switch the orifice.  But if I went low-pressure, I wouldn't.

 

You are not "connecting the dots" in the conversation.

 

You are correct in that statement.  The MRs and the pilot currently are set up with orifices for whatever pressure Marc Ward decided you are to be using.  I am ASSUMING that is the 11" WC. that the regulator he supplied to you should output. If in question... contact him.

 

You have to now weigh the potential benefits of changing to high pressure gas versus the "hassels" and costs of changing over.  You'll also have to replace the low pressure guages you now have.

 

Hummmmm............. What regulator do you have from running the B-2 burner on high pressure?

 

best,

 

.................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#153 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 07:38 PM

This is the regulator on my B-2 burner.  It's a Chen Fong CF103.  I've found little information about it, but one particular Web site lists it as "Inlet Pressure : Max. 250 PSI 

Outlet Pressure : 0-60 PSIG "

 

b2_regulator.jpg

 

From what we have read thus far, it seems as though we should give it a go as a low-pressure system with a new regulator.



#154 JBaymore

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 08:35 PM

I don't know that one off the top of my head either.  No time to search now. 

 

Did Marc Ward sell you that one?  If so... check the capacity (BTU / hour or CF / hour).  Just so you know if that one is an option for you should you ever decide to go to a high pressure system.

 

best,

 

...............john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#155 Mark C.

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 09:17 PM

that is a high pressure regulator-heres the info

http://www.tgas.org...._e.asp?cid=2926

I have spent a lot of time goggling regulators in this thread-I hope you get this fixed

 

If you use this on your low pressure burners you will need a different office-they are really cheap -call Marc and have him mail you two of them -you can also buy a number drill set and drill out blank ones but thats may be more than you want to do.

Mark


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www.liscomhillpottery.com

#156 JBaymore

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 09:22 PM

No throughput BTU capacity info on that page Mark C. .  That's the missing piece of info.  If she decided to go HP.... I was wondeirng if she already HAS what she needs there.  So maybe no need to buy a new one.

 

best,

 

................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#157 Mark C.

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 09:42 PM

Well as she noted there is not much info on this regulator .

I was thinking these are so cheap -find one with the right specs and buy it.

Mark


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www.liscomhillpottery.com

#158 Lockley

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:33 AM

Have you considered the option of two supply cylinders with two regulators supplying one line  with a control valve leading to your burner?

Set the regulators to a slightly higher pressure than needed  and use the valve to throttle delivery down to your requirements.

 

Just a thought

Lockley



#159 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:50 AM

Have been working with Marc.  I will be receiving next week a new regulator and necessary connectors to string together an additional two 100-lb tanks.  If the four tanks don't give me a reading of more than 5.5 on the pressure gauge, I'll switch out the regulator.  If that doesn't help, I may be switching to high pressure.



#160 Kristin_Gail

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:44 AM

Hooked up the four tanks, kept old regulator:  Same reading on pressure gauge - about 5.2.  (Marc expected 7-8.)

 

Replaced old regulator with new:  Pressure gauge reads 6.4 with one burner running, drops to 5.8 with both running.  

 

Marc has explained that the gauges should not drop when turning on an additional burner - and that it does do this, it indicates a volume issue.  He is trying to avoid switching me to high pressure, saying I've already spent too much money, and switching to high pressure would be much more.  But currently he has no ideas for me, other than using one regulator per burner.  But he wants me to fire it this way before trying the two-regulator option.

 

I'm currently trying to track down two retired ceramics professors who apparently live within 1/2 hour of me.  Because I'm not attempting this again alone.

 

I have to say, building a little wood-fired kiln (that Manabigama is so cute!) is looking better and better every day.  (With the given that I'd actually help fire someone else's before building my own.)






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