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TJR

An Apology

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TJR    359

Please accept my sincere apology for a couple of posts that I made this week. I corrected some spelling and grammar errors on two posts in this section. I have sent personal apologies to those people that I corrected. It is not my place to be correcting peoples' posts. I am a poster just like yourselves. I in no way wish to discourage anyone on this blog from asking questions. I also feel that in a lot of areas, I can be of help, as I am an advanced potter.

My head was getting a little too big, and people kindly reminded me that I was being gruff. I will not be correcting anyone's posts in future. We all make mistakes.

Sincerely, Tom Roberts.

aka TJR.

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Chilly    331

I totally understand how you feel, I too want to correct spellings.  There is a good reason for proper spelling - searching for a topic is difficult enough - it the original topic was mis-spelled it becomes almost impossible.

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Stellaria    35

Improper use of homophones is one of my biggest pet peeves, and I have a very difficult time not posting super-snarky responses to people that do it. So I understand :)

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Pres    896

In this day of texting, increased use of slang and colloquialisms, and a general degradation of the language arts, it is difficult for those of us who believe that proper grammar and spelling is of grave importance to ignore misspelling. That is difficult to overlook, and at times grievous to many of us and even more so for those of us that are or have been concerned educators. TJR's apology only underlines how he feels about this community. I applaud his apology, and look forward to enjoying his depth of knowledge here on the forums.

 

On a side note, I have corrected titles here that have had misspelling. This was done not so much out of making things correct, as to making search engines be able to find a strand when a search is made on a subject.

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ChenowethArts    461

Tom, that is a gracious apology. I raise my mug to salute your humility...and welcome your insights and contributions as a seasoned veteran.

 

It probably isn't new to many on this forum, but I have taken note of a growing number of participants in other online forums who live in places where English is not their native language.  I love the idea that we are part of a much larger global community and hope that we will be accepting and supportive to all who wish to pose questions and add commentary...even if that means biting a lip when someone's grammar and spelling are less than perfect.  Good grief, I know that I am far from perfect...and I hope that my friends here will call my hand (and my grammar) if I show up wearing my 'grumpy ole man hat'.

 

Peace,

-Paul

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Chris Campbell    1,088

"On a side note, I have corrected titles here that have had misspelling. This was done not so much out of making things correct, as to making search engines be able to find a strand when a search is made on a subject."

 

Thanks for doing that Pres ... I have not been able to find a way to correct mine once they are posted. I can correct errors within the message, but have never been able to fix the titles.

 

Thanks for your gracious apology Tom ... we all have crabby weeks.

I too notice spelling errors but write it off to the text edit features on our computers that insert some of the weirdest words to sub for what you want to write.

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JBaymore    1,432

Thanks for doing that Pres ... I have not been able to find a way to correct mine once they are posted. I can correct errors within the message, but have never been able to fix the titles.

 

Select "Use Full Editor" at the bottom of the "quick edit" screen that the editor defaults to.  Gives you access to all aspects of the posting (unless my Mod's status forum features are different than the general membership's).

 

best,

 

...................john

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TJR    359

Tom, that is a gracious apology. I raise my mug to salute your humility...and welcome your insights and contributions as a seasoned veteran.

 

It probably isn't new to many on this forum, but I have taken note of a growing number of participants in other online forums who live in places where English is not their native language.  I love the idea that we are part of a much larger global community and hope that we will be accepting and supportive to all who wish to pose questions and add commentary...even if that means biting a lip when someone's grammar and spelling are less than perfect.  Good grief, I know that I am far from perfect...and I hope that my friends here will call my hand (and my grammar) if I show up wearing my 'grumpy ole man hat'.

 

Peace,

-Paul

Well said. I will hang up my hat now.

Tom.

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JBaymore    1,432

Thank you, TJR, well spoken and accepted.  I do share the 'ouch' of the grammar and spelling blips.

 

As do I.  As a college professor....... it is difficult to "sit on my hands" on this.

 

Tom... the formal public apology was a testament to "who you are".  Kudos.

 

best,

 

................john

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Nancy S.    21

TJR, it's quite gracious of you to apologize. And I want you to know that if you ever catch ME misspelling something, please tell me....I pride myself on my grammar/spelling skills (I always was good at that, even before getting the English degree) and would be embarrassed if someone didn't point out that I'd mistyped a post. So while I can't speak for anyone else... when it comes to correcting me, you have my permission. :D

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We all have topics that we care more about than the next. I personally just don't care to take the time in casual conversation, and my apple computer tends to change the spellings of words incorrectly half the time before I notice it.  If I took the time to fix all of it, I would have no time to raise my family.  People that care about things that I don't' care about help balance the universe and make the world go round. ;)   â€¦ that's my way of telling you TJR - you complete me ;) 

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Chris Campbell    1,088

 

Thanks for doing that Pres ... I have not been able to find a way to correct mine once they are posted. I can correct errors within the message, but have never been able to fix the titles.

 

 

Select "Use Full Editor" at the bottom of the "quick edit" screen that the editor defaults to.  Gives you access to all aspects of the posting (unless my Mod's status forum features are different than the general membership's).

 

best,

 

...................john

I think only mods can change it ... I have gone through the full editor route and thought it was changed but it came up in the original way anyhow.

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Babs    386

One great thing about being on the planet  is that there isn't a day passes wherein you haven't learned something new about yourself or your surroundings. So TJR please keep clarifying my use of English and my ceramic concermns. 

Interesting that the person one of  the corrections was directed at didn't notice as he was too interested in the other content of the replies.

When do we stop correcting the language of ourselves and others?

OK to correct toddlers and the grunts of many teenagers, then somewhere we become uneducable?? above correction? beyond caring?

Cringe thingies happen when I see any text with my name on it with mistakes in the content.

Hard to distiguish between typos and spelling sometimes,

:lol:

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JBaymore    1,432

 

 

Thanks for doing that Pres ... I have not been able to find a way to correct mine once they are posted. I can correct errors within the message, but have never been able to fix the titles.

 

Select "Use Full Editor" at the bottom of the "quick edit" screen that the editor defaults to.  Gives you access to all aspects of the posting (unless my Mod's status forum features are different than the general membership's).

 

best,

 

...................john

I think only mods can change it ... I have gone through the full editor route and thought it was changed but it came up in the original way anyhow.

 

 

 

CRAP.  Sorry.  If you ever need one edited... let me know.

 

best,

 

.................john

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One great thing about being on the planet  is that there isn't a day passes wherein you haven't learned something new about yourself or your surroundings. So TJR please keep clarifying my use of English and my ceramic concermns. 

Interesting that the person one of  the corrections was directed at didn't notice as he was too interested in the other content of the replies.

When do we stop correcting the language of ourselves and others?

OK to correct toddlers and the grunts of many teenagers, then somewhere we become uneducable?? above correction? beyond caring?

Cringe thingies happen when I see any text with my name on it with mistakes in the content.

Hard to distiguish between typos and spelling sometimes,

:lol:

Some of us just have other things that demand our attention. I don't consider myself "beyond" caring, but if someone else thinks I am, perhaps I should choose some things for them to pay further attention to. We all have different priorities, they are personal to each of us. Nobodies are more important than the next persons. As I said, I am glad there are people out there that care about those things that I don't because otherwise it would never be done.  I just wanted to clarify this in case your comment was directed at me. Peace 

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Tyler Miller    331

I suppose I should come forward and say that I was the one who asked TJR to apologize.  I'm very impressed with his humble and cordial response.  TJR's a good guy and a great potter. I wish my teapots looked as good as his.  He's also Canadian, a fine quality in anyone ;).

 

My feelings about not pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes come from my experience with languages.  I was a classics student for a long time and I'm still an all-around word-nerd.  I know my rules well, but after a time, you learn that spelling and grammar are very artificial constructs that have no bearing on artistry, intelligence or the ability to communicate. They are merely indicators of your schooling and skill with words.  Shakespeare had a vocabulary of well over 20K words, and invented a significant portion of our modern lexicon.  He also is known to have spelled his name five different ways in his own lifetime.  His own name!

 

Not too long ago, a gentleman posted on The Bladesmith's forum inquiring about making a knife for his son with only his limited hand tools.  Literally every word was spelled wrong and he used no capitals or punctuation.  He likely had the legal minimum of education for his state.  But he wanted to learn now.  People jumped on him, but the truth was he was perfectly legible, if you bothered to say what he wrote out loud.  He didn't need punctuation, he had a built in cadence to provide sense to his words.  He was writing in poetry, not prose, poetry.  To understand him you needed to read his rhythm and cadence.  After everyone had jumped on him, he never posted again.  eye wud hav reely lykt to no how his nyf ternd owt  eyem sher it wuz grate Very rarely does poor spelling and grammar amount to nonsense.

 

Then there's the fact that a lot of people have dyslexia and struggle with spelling pathologically--not to mention all the other learning disorders out there.  I once knew a perfectly brilliant man who was rendered illiterate because of Reye's syndrome in his childhood.  He was physiologically incapable of reading.  He had very real cognitive problems because of his illness, but he was an excellent carpenter, machinist and labourer.  At 45 he's finally learning to write his numbers with great difficulty--he could read them, but writing them used a part of his brain that he struggled to muster.  He was very proud that he painted his house number on his mailbox.  You don't need to read to make a pot and some of the most brilliant artists I know aren't the greatest with words.  Ann Rice, author of Interview with a Vampire etc.  is dyslexic and held off writing because of it.

 

That said, I'm all for orthography. It's necessary for science and modern communications.   To the argument that precise spelling makes search engines easier, I recommend using  Google with "site:http://community.ceramicartsdaily.org/" and entering your search terms after that.  No offence to the mods/admins, but the IP boards search engine is difficult to use at the best of times, and you need to be actively trying to misspell words to miss a term with Google.

 

I'm also not so sure language degradation is a bad thing.  Bad Latin eventually turned into La Commodia Divina, Don Quixote, Les Miserables, etc.  English is past due for a change, IMHO.

 

I guess my point with all this is to maybe ask everyone to think about where their preoccupations with spelling and grammar come from, and what they really mean.  My own feeling is that unless you're a teacher in a classroom teaching students, or you're helping someone achieve some sort of goal (resume, essay, publication, etc.), or you feel you're helping someone, it's unfounded.  I can think of at least three teachers I've known (one a neighbour, one a professor for whom I worked, and one who taught me) who used pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes as a way to cover up their own insecurities.  Google the phrase "sine nobilitate," and read about what holding someone to an arbitrary standard can do.

 

I hope none of this offends anyone or comes across as accusatory.  These are simply my feelings on the subject.

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Tyler-  I appreciate what you say. My husband is dyslexic and has worse spelling than I do, but he is an award winning fiction writer.  I couldn't imagine writing some of the beautiful things that he can put into words. My middle daughter is dyslexic, but she is the most kind hearted and empathetic person that I know. She picks up on the moods of people based on body language and facial expression faster than anyone else I know.  Her communication style is through feeling and empathy. 

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Babs    386

 

One great thing about being on the planet  is that there isn't a day passes wherein you haven't learned something new about yourself or your surroundings. So TJR please keep clarifying my use of English and my ceramic concermns. 

Interesting that the person one of  the corrections was directed at didn't notice as he was too interested in the other content of the replies.

When do we stop correcting the language of ourselves and others?

OK to correct toddlers and the grunts of many teenagers, then somewhere we become uneducable?? above correction? beyond caring?

Cringe thingies happen when I see any text with my name on it with mistakes in the content.

Hard to distiguish between typos and spelling sometimes,

:lol:

Some of us just have other things that demand our attention. I don't consider myself "beyond" caring, but if someone else thinks I am, perhaps I should choose some things for them to pay further attention to. We all have different priorities, they are personal to each of us. Nobodies are more important than the next persons. As I said, I am glad there are people out there that care about those things that I don't because otherwise it would never be done.  I just wanted to clarify this in case your comment was directed at me. Peace 

 

Not at all! Your posting was solid!! 

I am careful not to make personal attacks/judgements on people, we all come from different places, and we never know the others' journeys to this place. 

I was just observing how our response to language errors differs as the person making the error ages.

I have been a teacher for many years and language correctness is often not the focus of the lessons, and often does not add to the understanding of the message.

But the final draft of a response is important, many students work hard at getting this correct.

This forum's postings are not final drafts!

In other postings there was debate about different forms of assessment required when students struggle with literacy.  

The ,manner in which the correction is made is also one for assessment. 

 

TJR's apology was gracious and, as others have written, reflects the guy's caring nature. His students are lucky.

Another Indian summer here today,vstill no time for the pottery shed :mellow:

Rebekah, I married a blond Polish person ...You be the judge!

Love your comments, take care of the back.

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Roberta12    135

This is a great forum.   I appreciate the wealth of knowledge that is available here.  And the depth of character that is evident!

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Mark C.    1,807

TJR-

I'm a bit rummy from a 2,200 mile fair road trip tonight myself and spelling has NEVER been my forte. I have no idea what this about but will gladly let you crect any of my Many (spellinf) errors.

I often need an atitude adjustment myself and as I do not want to steal your limelight i'll cut this short. I also want you to know your are a standup guy in my book no matter what you did or did not do.I do hope your foot is better.

Mark Cortright

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