Painting / Trailing Surfaces

[Rebekah Krieger]

I have been experimenting with trailing glaze in squeeze bottles and painting on with fine paintbrushes. I feel like there has got to be a better way to do what I am attempting to do. With the small brush I literally have to dab it on and re apply to the brush as the glaze dries on the bristles too fast.  The squeeze bottle is almost too large of a hole for the glaze, I feel like i don't have that much control.  

 

I have seen some people used needle tip bottles- do these work well? 

What kind of brushes do you use for small/delicate designs? 

Any other advice? 

 

 

 

The vulture pot is done using a trail squeeze bottle- as you can see it pooled up in some places. I had to work very fast. I used wax resist over the design and then brushed on the tenmoku.  

 

The Poppy Utensil holder is applied using a paint brush.. it was a pain in the ass to do. I just brushed clear glaze over the design. It was one of the last pieces I plan to make in white stoneware clay body.  

 

Maybe describe how you would have gone about creating these designs?  Thank you!! 

[neilestrick]

Your slip has to be at just the right viscosity, and you have to have a pretty small tip on the bottle. We use THESE bottles that have a mechanical pencil tip screwed onto them. If you use deflocculated slip, you can do the trailing onto pots that are dryer than leather hard, which makes the slip set faster so it doesn't run so badly.

[Rebekah Krieger]

I have been painting it with commercial glaze.  The one used here is the Coyote Mid fire red/orange. I have never used a colored slip before. I want to know how on earth people make such delicate beautiful paintings on their work!! It seems nearly impossible. 

[neilestrick]

My bad. I was thinking slip. For glaze you might want to use an underglaze, or an overglaze technique like majolica.

[Brian Reed]

I would try some of the underglazes as I have found them to be better for brush work rather than glazes.

 

Sorry I do not know the difference between them, but I suspect that underglaze has very little clay in them.  Maybe someone knowledgeable can chime in. 

 

my 2 cents.

[neilestrick]

Think of underglazes as a slip-glaze hybrid. They fuse more than a slip, so they can be applied at any stage -wet, leather, bone dry, bisque- but they do not melt into glass like a glaze. They do not run or flow when fired, and they can be trailed like a slip. They are typically very saturated with colorants so you can get intense colors and good coverage with just two coats. They are usually colored with stains, so the color in the bottle is the same as the fired color. They are not food safe without being covered with an appropriate glaze.

[RuthB]

I know people do paint with glaze. The glaze needs to made brushable, by adding glycerin, CMC or a glycol product such as antifreeze. The CMC can get stinky, so add some kind of disinfectant (bleach, hydrogen peroxide, alcohol) to the mix. Sorry, I don't have any suggestions for the amount to add.

Hopefully, a little trial and error will get you there!

 

Ruth Ballou

Charleston, SC

[TJR]

Ruth;

I paint on glazes all the time. In fact, all of my work is banded and  brush decorated. I use bamboo brushes that hold a lot of liquid. I paint oxides on bisque ware that has an unfired glaze on it. I glaze my pots, then let them sit for a day, then decorate over the glaze. Over the glaze you get a sharper line quality,as compared to decorating and then applying the glaze over that. The oxides need to flow, so you need to add just the right amount of water. A good starting point would be iron oxide plus a little Albany slip/Alberta slip. Try some designs on newspaper first. Check out my gallery for images. I apologize. I really need to update them.

TJR.

[Chris Campbell]

rebbylicious -

 

I would go with Ruth's idea of researching ways to make your glaze more brushable. Brushed on glaze designs produce a flowing, two dimensional surface that leads to more variety in your results. TJR's pots showcase that look. Scott Barnim's work also showcases that flowing, mildly out of control look though I think he might use some kind of stencil or template when applying his glaze designs.

Underglazes will be flat so you would lose that quality. Slips won't move, so you would lose that.

So, if you like the look then research and practice, practice, practice.

Good luck and post pix as you progress.

[RuthB]

Ruth;

I paint on glazes all the time. In fact, all of my work is banded and  brush decorated. I use bamboo brushes that hold a lot of liquid. I paint oxides on bisque ware that has an unfired glaze on it. I glaze my pots, then let them sit for a day, then decorate over the glaze. Over the glaze you get a sharper line quality,as compared to decorating and then applying the glaze over that. The oxides need to flow, so you need to add just the right amount of water. A good starting point would be iron oxide plus a little Albany slip/Alberta slip. Try some designs on newspaper first. Check out my gallery for images. I apologize. I really need to update them.

TJR.

Nice work!  I've done brushwork with oxides on top of the glaze in the past, but am a bit rusty now.... I'm working on it again and am struck by the fact that WYSInotWYG! Takes a lot of practice and experience to know how much oxide to put on the brush, how much pressure to use, etc. I'll give the RIO with Albany a try on the next piece.  

 

Ruth

[Celia UK]

Hope you don't mind me butting in on this one. I posted my query elsewhere, but it's along a similar theme and I thought I'd grab you while you're online.

I am using oxides (usually copper oxide/carbonate) to highlight some parts of my pots, by masking where I don't want this, and spraying the oxide solution lightly with an airbrush. I'm aiming for a subtle 'blush' within the transparent glaze. A few questions to help me perfect the process! I particularly want to avoid the oxides moving on to areas I want to remain white, and want a subtle effect overall.

 

- does it make any difference whether the oxide is under or over the transparent glaze?

- if it's under, can I fire it on, to prevent it moving when covered by the glaze?

- If so, what is the lowest temperature that will achieve this?

- alternatively, could I add the oxide to some of the transparent glaze (instead of using in wash form), spray or brush this, remove masking and spray over the whole piece - would the oxide still break through?

 

Any advice would be most welcome. Thank you.

[neilestrick]

Norm, I have to disagree with you and Frog Pond that underglazes are just kaolin and colorant. They are not colored slip. If that were the case, they wouldn't fuse to anything but leather hard clay. And if they were truly that problematic, no one would be able to use them the way they do. And having formulated underglazes for a clay and glaze company before, I know for a fact that if the kaolin content is too high, they don't work. They have to be fluxed in order to fuse to bisque.

 

I know that everything Hesselberth says is supposed to be golden, and I have great respect for him, but I have used 4 different brands of commercial underglazes over the least 10 years and have never had flaking problems, and I use them with kids who put them on way too thick, or thin, or any other not-recommended method you can think of. I've got a load in the kiln right now with dozens of underglazed pots that won't have any issues. Good commercial underglazes (Speedball, Amaco, Spectrum) will fuse to bisque just fine, without any flaking or bubbling problems. That said, like any glaze, if you get it on way too thick it could flake. But I've had students brush on 6 coats with good results.

 

There is no reason to avoid commercial underglazes.

[nancylee]

Butting in here, too. What kind of glaze can you apply, and then paint over, as TJR does? I use underglazes mostly, the bright ones can make brights when fired. I have been using neons.

Nancy

[Benzine]

I'm a big fan of using underglaze, for detailed work, that I don't want to bleed.  I've done plenty of designs with glaze, in the cases, where I don't mind a soft edge to the design.  But for precision, I'll use the underglaze, and I tell my students the same.

 

As Neil said, I have had very few problems with underglazes flaking.  I do have one bottle, of a certain color, that has been doing it as of late, but it has proved to be the exception.  Otherwise, I'm a big fan.

[neilestrick]

Regardless, our hand-crafted under-glazes are far superior and are much less costly.

 

People who don't appreciate the benefits of hand-crafted buy a dish or mug from Mikasa rather than from Neil Strick.

 

 

I get that, but have to draw the line somewhere. Is it still hand crafted if you fire it in a kiln you purchased, with a computer controller, rather than building your own kiln and firing it without cones? Is it still hand crafted if you didn't dig and process your own clay? Is it still hand crafted if you didn't mine the materials for the glazes? The customer doesn't care if you formulated your own underglaze. They do care is you formed the clay and applied the underglaze yourself. I use some commercial glaze accents on my pieces. Are they any less handcrafted than my other pots?

 

I think we just started another thread!

[Babs]

Ruth;

I paint on glazes all the time. In fact, all of my work is banded and  brush decorated. I use bamboo brushes that hold a lot of liquid. I paint oxides on bisque ware that has an unfired glaze on it. I glaze my pots, then let them sit for a day, then decorate over the glaze. Over the glaze you get a sharper line quality,as compared to decorating and then applying the glaze over that. The oxides need to flow, so you need to add just the right amount of water. A good starting point would be iron oxide plus a little Albany slip/Alberta slip. Try some designs on newspaper first. Check out my gallery for images. I apologize. I really need to update them.

TJR.

Great pots TJR!

Why do you add the Albany slip? To suspend  the oxide? Or to make  the oxide more Painterly?

 Benzine, I use oxides and underglazes on my glaze Both seem to work ok except one or two Blue underglazes which do not have the same melt as others. To these I add a bit of the Frit present in the underlying glaze, ot even someof the glaze itself and that seems to do the trick.

[Celia UK]

Babs/Neil - while you're on and before I get to bed ( it's 11pm in the UK) - quick response if possible. Can I fire my already bisqued pieces which have an oxide wash in places, to fix the oxide before glazing. As this will be 3 firings in total, and trying to keep costs down, how low could the 2nd firing be?

[Babs]

I do this but only as written by Marcia, ie in impressed areas, the rest of the oxide I sponge off. So potters more educated that I would best be listened too. If it's an all over wash, not a detailed design, I wouldn't be firing prior to glazing, How are you glazing? What is your oxide as some are strong fluxes and may react with your glaze resulting in glaze dripping onto shelf. Got any thing else to fire?? Do one as a test is usually the way to go without expert knowledge. Put the pot on a stilt or sacrificial bisqued tile.

Would usually apply the overal oxide prebisquing, after trimming.

[neilestrick]

Babs/Neil - while you're on and before I get to bed ( it's 11pm in the UK) - quick response if possible. Can I fire my already bisqued pieces which have an oxide wash in places, to fix the oxide before glazing. As this will be 3 firings in total, and trying to keep costs down, how low could the 2nd firing be?

 

Depends on the oxide wash as to how hot you'll need to go to fuse it on.

[Chris Campbell]

I feel I have to hop in here too ... I have never had any problems with Amaco underglazes ... Cannot vouch for any others but would recommend them for their flexibility, wide range of uses and easiness of use.

Sure, you can make your own cheaper but I can vouch for the commercial ones.

Next time I see John H. I'll check if that was his study ... I'd be interested in hearing his results if it was.

[Chris Campbell]

I have had more problems with clear glazes than with underglazes, slips and stains. Mostly potters think clear glazes are rather neutral when in fact, they cause a lot of problems. I show my students a wide tile of a colored clay pattern with various clear glazes over ... You can easily see discoloration, running and blurring with some of them. I use the Amaco clear and the zinc free clear whenever I need to use a glaze ... But I tend to avoid glazing since I don't do much functional work.

[Celia UK]

Thanks everyone! Babs - oxide on greenware is something I hadn't tried - will have a go at that. Neil - it never even occurred to me that oxides might require different temperatures - something else for me to think about.

 

I do test with small pieces and tiles, but was trying to cut down some of the variables. As always I left the decoration of a few gift pieces rather close to Christmas - and hadn't ascertained a consistently reliable approach to the oxide application.

 

In case anyone has anything more to input - I'm using smooth white earthenware, and copper oxide & carbonate are my favourite oxides. HOW I apply the glaze is another matter! Given the pierced holes, I've found dipping and pouring quite problematic - drips and runs. I have a manual spray gun but it takes a lot of pumping and really needs a third hand to keep my whirler spinning! But I think this is probably still the best option for a smooth covering - and it's less likely to cause the oxide to run. I'll try to attach a picture of one bisqued bowl which I have airbrushed with copper carbonate (waiting for a decision on whether to do a 2nd bisque before glazing!) so you can see what I'm on about and another finished piece with the effect I'm after (I made this way back and can't remember how I went about it!)

. No idea why my photos turn round when attached - perhaps it's an ipad thing!

[Babs]

Nice bowls!

Another plus for applying to greenware is  that you can scratch and carve designs into your pot after applying the oxide wash. Sgraffitto i think is the technical name.

Small areas you could lay the glaze on by brush.

[Marcia Selsor]

check out some of the slip trailing videos on CAD. One shows how to make slip trailers with mylar wrapping paper.

I tried this and it worked really well.I had some wrapping paper scraps and used those. I sometimes get a blurp from the slip trailed needle nose applicators. Sometimes I add a glycol solution to avoid this but I haven't had any glycol around for a while. I use oxides mixed in my porcelain slip.

 

Marcia

[neilestrick]

Norm, there are several problems with their underglaze 'study':

 

1. With the exception of Coyote, the underglazes they were using were not rated for cone 6. They were all rated for cone 04, so all of them were being fired well above their recommended firing range. Amaco fully admits that their Velvets will change color. They even put out a chart showing the changes!

 

2. They were using a cone 10 clay but only firing it to cone 6. So that could exacerbate any problems they were having with their clear glaze.

 

3. They were using commercial clear glazes, so they did nothing to try and fix the glaze problems they were having. No one glaze is going to work on top of all underglazes.

 

4. They mention nothing about flaking. They say blistering, fading, or changing colors. Blistering of the clear glaze is caused by the underglazes being overfired, which they clearly were, or a poor matchup of clear glaze to underglaze. Fading and changing colors is also caused by overfiring, as the colorants they are using are not specifically formulated for cone 6. It would also be nice for them to specify which brands suffered from blistering, and which suffered from color changes.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting your data about the underglazes flaking off. If it's from personal experience, I understand. But there's nothing in that report to back it up. In my studio we have used commercial underglazes on more than 10 different clay bodies, including porcelain, for the last 10 years, and they have never once flaked off. We apply them to wet clay, leather hard clay, bone dry clay and bisque. They flux out plenty, and they adhere just fine. The Amaco Velvets MSDS form even lists sodium borosilicate frit as an ingredient. So yes, they are fluxed. This is what causes the blistering with some clear glazes. If they were just kaolin, the blistering problem wouldn't happen.