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Misleading Representation

when being juried

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#1 Min

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:38 PM

Wondering what peoples thoughts are on this issue; during the jury process an artist submits a set of photos for a market that are of their work but don't represent the work they will be offering for sale.  

 

At the market there are 2 scenarios, artist has pieces from their jury photos in their booth but the pieces are just display/sales props and not for sale. Or, items for sale have no resemblance to jury work at all and none being used as sales props. The work being sold is no where near the caliber of work in jury photos.

 

In a perfect world the event planners would step in and rectify the problem but that doesn't seem to happen. Is this  common practice, only noticed now that more events have jury photos on their websites? (I'm assuming it also goes on with jury panels looking at actual works and not just photos)

 

Have I just been naive?



#2 Pugaboo

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:49 PM

I think it depends on the caliber of the show. I have been at shows in the past where an artist was asked to remove pieces that were not reflected in their slides. Some shows the director or someone would come by holding your slides and compare them to your booth. In the past for Ann Arbor they used to show everyone's slides one evening and it was interesting to compare the slides to the actual tents the next day you could learn a lot.

Just my experience and maybe things have changed in the last few years.

Terry
The world is but a canvas to the imagination - Henry David Thoreau

#3 Mark C.

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 09:28 PM

This has been going on forever and in past years has gotten way worse as economics tighten down.

Shows rarely crack down as many are $$ driven promoters or non-profits with to many cracks to clean up this.

A few shows still clean house well but its a small number. Buy and sell folks also try anything to get in these days-What the jury sees and whats at show are often two different things.

Some just let it go till the jury process next year a few ask for the stuff to be removed (our local show which I'm on the board) does this.

I have only seen in 40 years a few folks asked to leave then and there-now its a sue happy world and EVERYONE is afraid of that.

So common place is the answer you where asking for.

Mark


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#4 JBaymore

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:26 AM

My thought is that I am naive, in that I don't get why it would matter.

 

It is about appropriate market segments and sales. 

 

People who are buying what we shall call here "fine crafts" are not interested in looking at a bunch of what we shall call here "crap".  If a show has a significant amount of "crap", the people who are intersted in purchasing "fine crafts" will stop coming, because it is a waste of their time because they have to look at way too many booths or pieces of stuff that is of no interest to them.  Sales of the "fine crafts" then drop off due to lack of buyers.  The percentage of people attending the show looking for "crap" thereby increases.  So the target market segment of the show changes.

 

If an artist is making $100 "high touch" cups...... and they try to sell them to a $10 "mass produced" cup audience........ they are not going to sell anything.  The audience at that kind of show is not likely educated to see the differences between the $10 cup and the $100 cup, and they likely cannot afford it either.  So if the show is stuffed full of the $10 cup people..... that $100 cup artist really does not want to be there.  So they will stop purchasing a booth at that fair or entering that show. 

 

Now from the promoters point of view, the $100 cup person's work (and or name) is likey part of the stuff that they are using to market the better quality original show we were talking about.  So they want those "high caliber" artists for good images and name recognition.  So they don't want them to stop attending the show and an overall "exodus" of those artists to start.  So they want to "boot" the $10 cup people who manage to "sneak in".

 

This subject relates directly to the currently "politically incorrect" thoughts that the quality of art work matters, and that there are some people's works that are more successful and more well put together and more expressive than other people's works.  There is a reason, beyond politics, that some people's work is included in places like art museums and others are not.

 

best,

 

.....................john


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#5 phill

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:31 AM

So they want to "boot" the $10 cup people who manage to "sneak in".

 

I make $10 cups. I promise I am not sneaky though.



#6 JBaymore

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 12:22 PM

It is all about matching up objects and audience....and hence enhancing sales.

 

Put a $10 cup in the wrong venue, and even though it is way more inexpensive than the work around it ..... it will not sell.  Flip the $ numbers... and it is the same thing.

 

best,

 

...................john


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Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#7 Min

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:55 PM

Good replies, thanks for your insights.   Min



#8 phill

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:45 AM

It is all about matching up objects and audience....and hence enhancing sales.

 

Put a $10 cup in the wrong venue, and even though it is way more inexpensive than the work around it ..... it will not sell.  Flip the $ numbers... and it is the same thing.

 

best,

 

...................john

 

Do you change prices depending on where you are selling? And if you do, how much so?



#9 GEP

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 09:51 AM

It is all about matching up objects and audience....and hence enhancing sales.
 
Put a $10 cup in the wrong venue, and even though it is way more inexpensive than the work around it ..... it will not sell.  Flip the $ numbers... and it is the same thing.
 
best,
 
...................john

 
Do you change prices depending on where you are selling? And if you do, how much so?

NO! This is something you should never do. It's very dishonest. Just imagine a customer who buys a $20 pot from you, then spots you in a different venue selling the same pot for $10. Choose your prices carefully and stick to them. Choose your venues carefully too.
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#10 GEP

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:07 AM

My thoughts on Min's original question ... unfortunately there are plenty of venues that don't compare jury slides with actual work, or don't check if the actual work violates their stated rules (like "no commercially produced components" and "no booth sharing" I see those rules ignored a lot, wish someone was paying attention). But also I know plenty of shows who are doing a good job. I often see clipboard-carrying floor jurors, whose job is to choose the award winners and also inspect everyone's displays. Once I saw a floor juror with an iPad, she was clearly looking back and forth between my display and the iPad. I guess some shows can afford to be picky and some can't.
Mea Rhee
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#11 JBaymore

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:36 AM

Do you change prices depending on where you are selling? And if you do, how much so?

 

Like GEP says, nope.... that would be unfair to existing customers.  Occasionally currency exchange rounding when I'm dealing internationally.

 

best,

 

.................john


John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

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#12 Wyndham

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 03:26 PM

Many shows face the same problems we face, knowing the market.

If  i jury in a show and see buy/sell in that show AND I don't do well, I won't return, if I do well I will return, buy/sell or not until......sales go down.

If a show jury's high end and no one sells well, few vendors will reapply, they will lower the standards next year to cover their expenses and down the hill it rolls.

 

If you were to put up a table at a craft show with 100 coffee mugs and shopper would set the price they will pay, most I'd say would be $10 and under, no matter what the potter gets in their shop. Look at a silent auction prices sometime vs the market value of those pieces in a retail shop, pennies on the dollar.

 

BTW a $10 mug does not mean it is half the value of a $20 mug, nor is a $100 mug always worth $100.

 

Customers are always confused about the prices different potters charge and ask what's the difference between A & B.

There are no credible answers to give, other than "A" has one lifestyle that cost "X"/month and "B" 10X /month.

One may undervalue their work and another overvalue

Later Wyndham



#13 Frederik-W

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 06:05 AM

Now is this misleading or what ?

The famous graffiti artist Banksy made a point by deliberately selling his paintings unonymously at a street stall :

 

"Unsuspecting tourists who thought they were buying cheap Banksy knock-offs have scored the bargain of a lifetime after the elusive street artist revealed the paintings were really his.

Banksy used an anonymous old man to sell several of his original works for US$60 ($63.60) from a stall in New York's Central Park on Sunday.
The paintings are actually worth around $42,400 each".

 

Quote from Sydney Morning Herald,

Read more: http://www.smh.com.a...l#ixzz2kzelgsGy






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