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Paragon Tnf-24 Not Reaching Cone 6 Temperature

Kiln Paragon

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#1 jkb914

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:06 AM

I purchased an older used TnF-24 Paragon kiln recently and added a new AutoFire -3000 controller to it.  I test fired a bisque load at cone 04 last week and didn’t have any problems. 

 

Yesterday I fired a glaze load to cone 6 and I was getting a firing too slow warning (FTH) out of the controller.  It finally stopped at 2161 F degrees with a firing took too long warning (FTL).  I sure hope that my glaze firing is not ruined.

 

The elements looked to be in good condition but obviously something is wrong with the kiln.

 

Where should I start to diagnose this problem?

 

Jeff B



#2 bciskepottery

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:12 AM

Contact -- phone or email -- Paragon and ask for Arnold Howard;  He is great for helping customers work through problems. 



#3 Arnold Howard

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:28 AM

I purchased an older used TnF-24 Paragon kiln recently and added a new AutoFire -3000 controller to it.  I test fired a bisque load at cone 04 last week and didn’t have any problems. 

 

Yesterday I fired a glaze load to cone 6 and I was getting a firing too slow warning (FTH) out of the controller.  It finally stopped at 2161 F degrees with a firing took too long warning (FTL).  I sure hope that my glaze firing is not ruined.

 

The elements looked to be in good condition but obviously something is wrong with the kiln.

 

Where should I start to diagnose this problem?

 

Jeff B

Jeff, I would first test the voltage under load. Then test the kiln's amperage.

 

Sincerely,

 

Arnold Howard

Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA

ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com



#4 jkb914

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:24 PM

I can check the volts under load but what would be an acceptable value?  I thought I had heard that checking ohm values was a better way to check a kiln than using amperes.

 

How would I go about getting a wiring diagram that would give me the ohm values and the amperes values for my kiln which is serial number 283882?

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff



#5 Arnold Howard

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

The voltage and amperage are listed on the kiln's electrical data plate. To fire to cone 6, you should have full voltage at the circuit.

 

Checking amperage will give you one convenient number that represents the current that the kiln is able to draw. When the elements are worn, the amperage will be lower than the number listed on the data plate. That is usually due to low voltage or worn elements.

 

The ohmmeter checks the resistance of the elements while the kiln is unplugged. Therefore, the ohmmeter is safer to use than the ammeter or voltmeter.

 

To obtain the correct wiring diagram, we will need the information listed on the safety data plate.

 

Sincerely,

 

Arnold Howard

Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA

ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com



#6 jkb914

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:23 PM

I don't have a multimeter that will go to the 45 amp rating that is listed on the kiln.  The no load line voltage is 240 volts.  The line voltage under full load drops to 234 volts at the plug.  I checked the ohms on the elements and have listed them below.

 

22.2 ohms top

11.6 ohms middle

12.3 ohms middle

11.3 ohms middle

12.9 ohms middle

21.5 ohms bottom

 

I know that the top and bottom should be 18 ohms so they will need to be replaced.  The four middle elements should be 11.5 each so they aren’t too far off but should they  still be replaced?

 

Would you think that with new elements I would be able to get to cone 6 even with a voltage drop to 234 volts?

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff B



#7 neilestrick

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:03 PM

A drop to 234 shouldn't be a big deal. Elements should be replaced once they are 10% off from original. It's odd that two of the middle elements are so far off from the other two. Are you sure you're getting a solid reading on all of them? It could also be that the previous owner was replacing them one at a time so they have different degrees of wear. I would replace the top & bottom, plus the two that are 12+ ohms.


Neil Estrick
Kiln Repair Tech
L&L Distributor
Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
www.neilestrickgallery.com

neil@neilestrickgallery.com

#8 jkb914

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 06:18 AM

I will recheck the readings to confirm the values.  I have ordered new top and bottom elements since i know for sure these are bad. 

 

The kiln came with four new middle elements in a box so I am tempted to just change them all at once since then I am starting with a known quantity.

 

Thanks to everyone for all your help on educating me on my kiln problem!

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff



#9 Arnold Howard

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:31 AM

Jeff, our new 240 volt TnF-24 is 48 amps; your model is 45 amps. The extra three amps will help you reach cone 6 and will help to compensate for the low voltage. I just now noticed that our website shows the wiring diagram for the earlier 45 amp kilns. I am going to update our website with the newer 48 amp diagrams as soon as possible.

 

Sincerely,

 

Arnold Howard

Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA

ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com



#10 neilestrick

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:13 AM

The kiln came with four new middle elements in a box so I am tempted to just change them all at once since then I am starting with a known quantity.

 

 

I would do that.


Neil Estrick
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L&L Distributor
Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
www.neilestrickgallery.com

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#11 jkb914

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

Jeff, our new 240 volt TnF-24 is 48 amps; your model is 45 amps. The extra three amps will help you reach cone 6 and will help to compensate for the low voltage. I just now noticed that our website shows the wiring diagram for the earlier 45 amp kilns. I am going to update our website with the newer 48 amp diagrams as soon as possible.

 

Sincerely,

 

Arnold Howard

Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA

ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

Arnold,

 

Are you saying that I could convert my kiln from the 45 amp to a 48 amp kiln?  If that is the case what would be required?

 

Thanks

 

Jeff B



#12 Arnold Howard

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:47 PM

Are you saying that I could convert my kiln from the 45 amp to a 48 amp kiln?  If that is the case what would be required?

Jeff, I think all you would need is a set of elements. I won't know for sure until I have the wiring diagram.

 

Sincerely,

 

Arnold Howard

 

Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA

ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com







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