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Advice, Please, On Bottle Stopper And Pourers, How To Select?


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#1 clay lover

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:42 PM

I want to make some oil  and vinegar bottles, and don't know how to size the stoppers.  Do I need to order ones that are tapered?  I remember Bill Van Gilder saying if the top of a cork fits the freshly thrown bottle opening, the bottom of the cork will fit the glazed and finished opening after shrinkage due to the taper. I am wanting the rubber stopper with the metal pour spout sticking up out of the stopper, and a flap to cover the opening of the spout.

I have looked at a bunch of pour spouts on line and I can't tell if they are tapered or not.  Any advice?

Thanks, All.

 

 



#2 Gigi

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:52 PM

I would also like to know how to size the stoppers. Good question!

#3 Min

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:36 PM

I use the tapered ones. For sizing what I did was get one of those drafting circle templates that go up by 1mm diameter increments, roll out a slab of clay and cut out a series of holes (and mark the diameter) then fire slab to maturity. Plunk your stopper in the holes to determine the right size neck opening to throw, allowing a bit for glaze. When throwing the necks I taper it to the same angle as the stopper and measure the top.

 

Hope this helps,   Min



#4 neilestrick

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:26 AM

I use these. I prefer the look of the cork, since I use a lot of earth tone glazes.  Most bottle pouring spouts come with a plastic 'cork' that has a series of flanges. I have heard from a couple of potters that the plastic tends to lose grip on the bottle when used for olive oil. I leave the inside of the neck unglazed so the cork can get a good grip.

 

As for fitting, and I use porcelain, I have to make the neck opening in the bottle just a hair wider than the top of the tapered cork, like 1/32". 1/16" at most. For a stoneware clay with lower shrinkage rate, I bet making it the same size as the cork would work. But that's for an unglazed neck. If I were to glaze the inside of the neck, that opening would be too small.


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#5 clay lover

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:12 PM

THANKS!  I had not seen these, I like the cork better also.  Will do.



#6 Mark C.

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:50 PM

One point I would like to make is corks wear out form all the in and out-As I do not make these I am not aware of what choice are out there but a rubber stoppewr will last much longer than corks-this leads to happy customers.

I have had many customers complain about cork lotion tops wearing out (I have never used them) so I know they are not happy when the cork gives up.

Mark


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#7 Pres

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:00 PM

Years ago, I bought and learned to use a threading device for stoppers and pourers. It took a H of a lot of practice, but in the end they worked well, and did not leak if you dipped the unglazed areas in paraffin.  I haven't seen any of threading dies around in years. Rubber stoppers are the way to go if you can find them. I am also wondering if the silicone liners you find available on some jar lids have an option for pourers? Worth looking into


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#8 neilestrick

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:34 PM

The cork can wear out, yes. But I size mine so they stick up just a bit so they can compress more in the future. But they will wear out eventually, but that should be years down the road. I'm willing to take that risk. The plastic flanges can also wear from the roughness of the raw clay, plus they're ugly. :) If they wear out, at less than a dollar each I'm happy to send a new one (or two) to  a customer for free. I just don't like the look of a plastic or rubber thing sticking out of my pots. Maybe I need to figure out how to cast them out of clay, then I wouldn't have the metal, either.....


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#9 Mark C.

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:58 PM

Years ago, I bought and learned to use a threading device for stoppers and pourers. It took a H of a lot of practice, but in the end they worked well, and did not leak if you dipped the unglazed areas in paraffin.  I haven't seen any of threading dies around in years. Rubber stoppers are the way to go if you can find them. I am also wondering if the silicone liners you find available on some jar lids have an option for pourers? Worth looking into

I use threaded  tops and attach them to my lotion bottles-And now that I have a good source put stainless heavy duty pumps on them. The threaded top is the way to go.Axner still carries the threaded mold collers if you want to go this route-Nothing to fail.

They have two sizes for two different shrinkage rates.

I do not think poring spouts have threads so this may not work for them.

Mark


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#10 Pres

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:28 PM

Looked at the Axner site, could not find the item you mentioned.  What I used to use at the HS was a tap and die type thing made of metal. there were 3 sizes, one about 3 inches, smallest 1 inch. used i cheese hard clay carefully with a lubricant they would cut the clay threads in the piece, and on the thrown stopper. These were purchased over 20 years ago.


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#11 Mark C.

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:25 AM

Pres

I called Axner this am and they quit making them last year. They may again get them if they can get a maker for the mold once again.These are small plaster collar rings that uou push clay into then run a hollow tool thru let set then unscrew clay collar which now has threads and slip it onto a bottle top.

Mark


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#12 Pres

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:04 PM

I think I like the tap and die sets better. Took a long time to learn, but worked well. Maybe I'll find a large set somewhere of machine dies, but these were big thread rounded on the outer edge. They made very useful stoppers.


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#13 Min

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:13 PM

Anybody try these collars?  http://www.onedreamd...products_id=181



#14 Mark C.

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 06:08 PM

Min those look to be about the same as the ones I got from Axner-I do not throw them to bottle top like in video-I press clay into top and hole cut the center then let dry  a tad and make another ( I have 12 of these tops) then when I have about 25 tops made I score and slip them to my lotion bottles-way faster- and speed /efficiency is my thing.

These mold collars work great-mine are 12+ on shrinkage.

Mark


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#15 Pres

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 06:55 PM

Good resource page, thanks!  Google search shows David Hendley did an article in Pottery Making in 2004 about dies. Don't know if it is of help.


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#16 Min

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:53 PM

Min those look to be about the same as the ones I got from Axner-I do not throw them to bottle top like in video-I press clay into top and hole cut the center then let dry  a tad and make another ( I have 12 of these tops) then when I have about 25 tops made I score and slip them to my lotion bottles-way faster- and speed /efficiency is my thing.

These mold collars work great-mine are 12+ on shrinkage.

Mark

 

Thanks Mark, I'll order some and give them a go using your method.                     



#17 dhPotter

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:07 AM

If you wanted to make a screw-on cap... 

 

Are the molds of different sizes? 

 

If so, would this work? After making the screw thread top, could you use the next bigger size screw thread mold, press clay into the mold, then attach that lump of clay to a leather hard lid or cap?

 

Hope this makes sense!

Thanks in advance.

 

Obviously was not thinking when I posted this.

 

The cap will need to be a reverse image of the screw threads.  How on earth can you get a reverse image that fits? If you wait to get your reverse image after the screw threads are dry your reverse image will be too small because of the drying it will go through.

 

Any ideas?


Edited by dhPotter, 10 June 2014 - 01:15 PM.


#18 bciskepottery

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 06:58 PM

I buy my ikebana kenza/frog here (think Mark C. identified the source a while back). They also do stoppers, etc. Good, prompt service.

http://www.ezpots.com/

#19 Mug

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 07:19 PM

Hi Mark... I was looking for a good way to make lotion bottles. I would love to hear who makes good stainless heavy duty lotion pumps.



#20 Mark C.

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:47 PM

I bought $600 worth of the heavy duty  ones  last year -the link is posted below . I got 3 types of finish on themmostly stainless brushed I went for quantity discounts. These are Crystal porcelain potters who do some of the same shows as me with cystal work-very nice pots as well as some highly tecnical insect drawings on clay that look like photos.

 I just arranged to pick them up at a show in another state as I know them.

They make mold collars as well but my body is a different shrinkage rate.

You can also buy the heavy duty ones at Aftosa as well

Heres the link as Min posted above a few years ago

http://www.onedreamd...products_id=181

 

Modern Heavy Duty Flat Head Stainless Steel

 

all these tops have the same guts  as the palstic pumps the only improved part is the outer metal skin which is looks only

This link is also another accountancie who sells ceramic items but has pumps but are not as nice-he has some nice frogs for flowers if you need them.

His name is Chuck and he like the other link above both have china connections and do thier own importing

Both are nice people as I have met them all.

Mark

 

PS I have no financial tyes to either

PPs get on aftosa's e-mail list as they always have e-sales via e-mail-then you can buy many things at a discount

like right now its 20% on all surface protection items like rubber bottoms stick ons etc


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