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Weight/size Charts?

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On my salad plates I've used 2 lbs , where I center and open to 9 in then pull a wall for the rim, lay it over so the rim is at the edge of a 10 in bat pin hole but this seems to be too light to me, sorta what "Pres" said about mugs. I'm thinking It should be 2 1/4- 2 1/2 lbs to give more substance. I went up to 3 1/2 on my plates and that seems about right

Do others here like a thin or more robust plates.

Wyndham

I make a 8 inch salad porcelain plate and use 3.5#s of clay and trim a nice foot and glaze the bottoms. I like a thick enough plate so they hold up well in daily use.

40 years ago it was a quest to throw thin potato chip ware that broke about as easy as a potato chip. My customers gave me feedback and I have been making durable wares since.

As far as mugs I provide 5 sizes in one style and an additional 2 styles-so thats 7 sizes total.

I still make motion/trucker mugs and soup mugs

The weight chart will vary for different clays and throwing levels-no one size for all -never that easy in clay work.

Mark

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I agree, Mark. Good functional ware needs to be sturdy. My thrown porcelain "dust collectors" are thin and not meant to be used for functions purposes. The 8 place setting dinner set I made last year was made from 175 pounds of clay for 32 piece set with some extra pieces..

a place setting was 2 plates, a bowl and a mug. I had a lot of trimming scraps  that I used for paper clay. 

 

Marcia

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Thanks for sharing input on thickness of functional work. I have only been throwing for a couple of years but I noticed that I seem to have gotten to a point where I consistently make pieces about the same thickness even if I'm trying to go thinner. Maybe the clay I use doesn't want to go thinner, but I realized that I do like some heft. After all, I don't want to burn my fingertips carrying a hot bowl of soup to the table when a thicker piece would stay cooler on the outside. Same with coffee or tea.

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Hot soup, thicker rims and flared rims will help with the carrying problem. At the same time, all of my bowls have a thicker outside rim to protect from chipping even though the bowl may be a bit thinner. I try to throw rims on almost anything with a thicker area to protect from that inevitable . . . . . accident.

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This strand seems to get a lot of traffic. I have been throwing 4 bowl sets of late, These include a large mixing bowl 6#, One large serving bowl 4#, and a  3# smaller bowl and 3# batter bowl. These seem to please folks quite a bit.

 

best,

Pres

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IMO, there are too many factors to say definitively how much clay should be used for each form. It all depends on what size you want the pot to be, how thin you throw, and the shrinkage rate of your clay. Many years ago I spent a great deal of time working out a chart like that, and today it's not very accurate. I now use a different clay body, and I throw thinner than I used to. Take the time to make your own chart. It'll be well worth the effort, at least for a few years. But it's easy enough to modify the chart as your throwing style changes.

 

The chart JLowes posted isn't even close to what I use on most of those forms. 4 1/2 pounds for a teapot? That's one massive teapot. 5 3/4 pound pitcher? To big to pass around the table when it's full. 1 1/2 pound mug is closer to 20 ounces. Those are some thick pots they're making.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Everyone has different likes and dislikes when it comes to vessel weightiness, but especially for teapots and pitchers that will be filled with liquid and need to be easily lifted and poured, you need to throw thin or the item becomes a mantle piece instead of something you would keep in a cupboard to use. 

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I am bumping this old thread. Been weighing my pots lately after finishing them. Trying to decide what is too light and too heavy.

I just measured a cup I made a few days ago. It is fired and weighs 321g (.7 #'s). It holds 12oz of liquid with room for another oz or two if you went to the rim. 

Looking at all the charts listed here and stuff. It seems it is heavy? I feel like its pretty light, but maybe I just need to get better skills. I thought I could throw well, but looking at this chart :

https://ceramicartsnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cadbg10.pdf for cup at 11oz. 300 grams wet? That seems incredibly thin to me. I am already pushing the clay as far as I can. I would have to throw rock hard clay to get the walls to stand up at that thickness.

Anyone else make cups that thin? I weighed my cup vs a master potter's cup I bought for my wife. His cup held 10oz and weighed 250g. So I thought my 321 at 12oz was pretty good. My wife said she ended up not liking the cup as she felt like it was too thin. Meh.

 

Edited by Joseph F

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I personally don't weigh my pots, I just trim them until they feel light enough.

I do agree that some people will not buy pots that feel too thin and fragile in fear of breaking them so that's a delicate balance. I would stick to what works for you and just listen to your customer's feedback

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I don't really know either. I really liked the light cup when I picked it up. It felt well balanced and nimble. When I brought it home to her, she was like it's beautiful, but I don't like it. (my wife is brutally honest with me haha, which I love)

I have been striving to make my pots the same weight ratio as his. I have got it down now. Almost all my pots are around the 25-1 ratio. Meaning they are 25g weight to 1 ounce of liquid. I feel like this is the perfect weight. I am curious how others feel. I don't really trim much anymore on any of my pots, including yunomi and bowls. I find that I can throw most of it on the wheel including the foot, and then I just trim out the inside. maybe a slight trimming on the outside. This is mostly because I have been throwing them thinner. This created that stamp problem I have been having, and I still really haven't solved completely. I think I am just going to have a really small stamp made that I put into the foot as that is the thickest part of my pot. I also wouldn't mind a small stamp on the very base of the mug where the wall and the bottom meet as I could stamp here without denting in the side of the wall.

Of course maybe others here throw much thinner than me. I am curious other peoples weight to oz ratio.

Edited by Joseph F

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Joseph, different clay bodies, different throwing styles, different tastes. Over the years, I have found that thin coffee mugs don't work, they get too hot to the hand, they cool too quickly, and often are too light even with coffee in them to be comfortable. These are not elegant coffee cups, they are coffee/tea mugs. I used to throw mugs that were super thin, had a high belly and shoulder, short neck wide rim, they cooled too quick, balance was too high, and they were not that good. Sometimes you have to analyze what you do, make changes and move on. Believe in yourself.

 

best,

Pres

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5 minutes ago, Pres said:

Joseph, different clay bodies, different throwing styles, different tastes. Over the years, I have found that thin coffee mugs don't work, they get too hot to the hand, they cool too quickly, and often are too light even with coffee in them to be comfortable. These are not elegant coffee cups, they are coffee/tea mugs. I used to throw mugs that were super thin, had a high belly and shoulder, short neck wide rim, they cooled too quick, balance was too high, and they were not that good. Sometimes you have to analyze what you do, make changes and move on. Believe in yourself.

 

best,

Pres

Yea. I don't know. My older mugs that I sold were a tad bit thicker. I never had a single customer complain about them. But I don't feel like my current work is too thin. I guess I need to do some testing. 

I think I might make 3-4 different thicknesses of the same shape. Then put hot water in them and check the temp every few minutes to see which one hold temp the longest and use that thickness as it would make the most sense. I thought that I had read somewhere that after a certain thickness the walls actually cool the coffee faster because they are heatsinks that pull the heat into the cup walls instead of staying in the coffee. But maybe I am mis-remembering. 

Edited by Joseph F

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I usually throw a tennis ball size of stiff clay, yields a 14 oz. mug. Find that works for people as it is enough to add cream to 12 oz of coffee. For a local Mom and Pop, I make 1 1/4 # mugs that hold 16 oz. .the waitresses love them since they don't have to refill often, and stay hot quite a while. Thing is these mugs are low belly, wide base, textured harshly before shaping, and have long necks with rims with not a lot of flair.mug2.9_2017.JPG.2f78a62af28c8ce0f583ed38213eb8a7.JPG

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I like the texture on that mug. I am sure that tighter opening has something to do with that coffee staying warm longer. Less surface space for heat to escape. 

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Texture believe it or not is from a silicone hot pad. Pressed into the pot before shaping, on a thicker body, then I pull the top neck portion to finish. This form does hold heat well. I'm one who likes to wrap their hand around the warm mug to warm my arthritic joints. :unsure:

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When I do weigh, it is always the wet clay. However I have weighed the clay, then the mug wet mug with handle, then the dried mug, bisqued, and glazed mug. It make for interesting if trivial information.

 

best,

Pres

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I did a commission for 12 mugs to hold 16 oz. I made extra. I was using an unfamiliar glaze. It didn't run in my test kiln, but it did run on a few in the glaze firing. Still got 14 matching ones.

I used between 3/4- 1 lb. wet weight per mug plus the handle weight, whatever that was. I found 3/4 was just under  getting to the required size. So I added a bit more but not quite a pound. I used Bray ^6 porcelain. The client had requested a specific size and shape to match a depleted set. 

 

Marcia

mugcommission.jpg

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The reason I have been weighing my pots is because I was curious what the shipping cost would be. I never weighed them as of recently. I used to just ballpark the shipping and refund overages. However I am now using the weight calculator, so it got me thinking about weights and sizes. I usually only weight my clay when I am throwing repeat ware. Otherwise I just throw and what ever shape and size it comes out to be is what I list and sell. 

Thanks for all the discussion. I will just let my pots continue to function in my house and in the houses of my friends and get feedback. I assume customers with any problems will let me know right away! haha. 

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When I switched clay bodies 2 years ago from a cone 10 porcelaneous stoneware to a red cone 6 stoneware, I was weighing out the same amount and getting a much larger mug. About 4% difference in the shrinkage, and for some reason, the fired proportions were different, as well. It gave them a bit of a different character.  I bet Tom's clay particle research and how it affects directional shrinkage could explain why. 

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Just now, Callie Beller Diesel said:

When I switched clay bodies 2 years ago from a cone 10 porcelaneous stoneware to a red cone 6 stoneware, I was weighing out the same amount and getting a much larger mug. About 4% difference in the shrinkage, and for some reason, the fired proportions were different, as well. It gave them a bit of a different character.  I bet Tom's clay particle research and how it affects directional shrinkage could explain why. 

The black ice porcelain has absurd shrinkage rates. When I was first using it I would throw a cup with it of my regular size. Then after firing it was about 15% smaller! I didn't realize when I had bought the clay that the shrinkage rate was so high! Talk about nightmare. Not only is that clay more expensive but you have to use more of it.

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Joseph-

You said: “ I didn't realize when I had bought the clay that the shrinkage rate was so high! Talk about nightmare. Not only is that clay more expensive but you have to use more of it.”

A conspiracy? Wasn’t it said that the cleanup was a bear?  Wonder if they’re highly invested in cleaning products as well?

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5 minutes ago, Fred Sweet said:

Joseph-

You said: “ I didn't realize when I had bought the clay that the shrinkage rate was so high! Talk about nightmare. Not only is that clay more expensive but you have to use more of it.”

A conspiracy? Wasn’t it said that the cleanup was a bear?  Wonder if they’re highly invested in cleaning products as well?

dont get me wrong. the clay is wonderful in color, but its a pain to throw and use. it just is its own unique thing. 

Edited by Joseph F

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