For New Folks, Red Is Not Santa Suit Red, Usually

[oldlady]

benzine, i choose to believe that cadmium based glazes should not be used for food.  just like bciske showed above.

[Pam S]

Oldlady, sorry to say, your original post did come across a bit arrogant. I'm sure that was unintentional. Ah, the nuances of the written word.

 

I'm one of those potters who is always looking for that elusive red cone 6 oxidation, not rust, without using cadmium. Larry just shared a recipe for Candy Apple Red. I'm hoping to try it in the next few weeks. I have seen it done, but so far I haven't been able to replicate the results. I'll also say that I've had some wonderful results layering Coyote, Mayco and Spectrum glazes without scraping shelves. I did test these glazes before using them on pots so I know what runs and what doesn't. It sounds like the students you observed didn't know the glazes they were using. IMHO the instructor should have had the students scraping the shelves! LOL!

[Benzine]

benzine, i choose to believe that cadmium based glazes should not be used for food.  just like bciske showed above.

bciskepottery posted information saying that Amaco glazes labeled with the "fork and knife" symbol contain no raw cadmium.  So if a red has this symbol, it would have no raw cadmium.  As I said, I have used several of these, in my classroom.

 

Yes, they might contain encapsulated cadmium, but this is something that is far from being the expensive, overly toxic ingredient, your opening post made it out to be. 

 

Also, you said "Information and facts are not opinions".  But then you say, that you choose to believe, that cadmium based glazes, should not be used for food.  But if they are tested as being safe, then that belief is indeed simply an opinion. 

[Roberta12]

Old Lady, I do agree with your statement about research and education being the responsibility of the student, beginner, in any area.   I would hope that the teacher would encourage that, but that is not always the case.   But yes, there is a lot of great information in the world concerning clay/glaze/chemicals/ etc.  

 

Oh yes, I am still looking for a great red, myself!   Cone 6

 

Roberta

[MMB]

"yes, those guys were figure'n while their instructor was busy grinding excess glaze off 3 shelves with 4 6inch circles of glaze an inch high."

 

What I think is that you tried to assert yourself to these little scoundrels and they told you to bug off because you werent their instructor. Or there is some level of bitterness towards the act that you decided to go have a voice somewhere because you couldnt say anything there.

 

Oldlady do you have grey hair? not salt and pepper gray but like bentonite grey...you know the REAL grey not the other greys or the grey grey Grays... Your first post as many brought out was clearly an arrogant boast of ones "knowledge" and was clearly bashing to those more than likely just excited to find something for themselves. I always enjoyed when in school my science teachers starting off the class by saying "more than likely everything you learn this year could be proved wrong in the next ten years." Its true because what we know as definite in this world is only governed by our limitations. I think about how the grandeur of cone 10 glazes has really been taken back and over the years many have transitioned themselves to Cone 6. What was once thought to be unachievable at one level can now be succesfully achieved. As for the title of this post is plain ignorance. To state that "red" in order to be a REAL RED it has to be that most awful Santa Red. See what I did there? I stated my opinion that I felt the santas red was awful and not a definite red in my eye. Each color has its own spectrum of colors. Ever see the YELLOW freight trucks? there logo is a tint of Orange, but hey theyre calling it Yellow. You should email them.

 

I understand your insistance on safety. It is true that as potters there is much to think about when it comes safety ESPECIALLY if we are providing a product where food is involved. There are so many variables to consider when working with clay and education is necessary. I remember a while back I asked if Paper clay could be used for functional ware. After reading many posts from those I see in here that truely know there stuff I decided that I would not pursue Paper clay for function items. Yet, that was my choice and I am only one person. There are millions of potters out there making choices like the one I made but they might not be making the right one. You cant control that. We all can hope that they take measures to avoid the danger of hurting someone. Also to the potter might say "not for use with food" but hey the consumer might think "I mean it is a cup....so why not put my morning coffee in it." Its in their hands after that.

 

Being upset over others trying to achieve something that you "know" is impossible is just a waste of engergy. You know what statement I see most in the ceramic world? "You dont know till you try." So let them try and try and try again. Let each fail hopefully bring them to the conclusion that theyre wasting their time. And yes if the glaze runs then it RUNS! If anything maybe the instructor needs to tighten up a bit on certain people.

 

Well I got bored in the middle of making this post. Im going to go throw now with my Orange Clay.

[Wyndham]

If anyone wants to trip out on something,consider that imports from everywhere but here the fda allows a higher lead leaching percentage than that of domesticly produced dinnerware.

Why?, Money, that's why there are lobbyist in DC.

As to red, there's copper red reduction, chrome/tin red ox, iron red reduction iron red ox cone 6 and all and more to 04 lead chrome red that the Seagrove potters make for years.

How does the FDA make quick spot test of glazes?,it's with a drop of nitric acid over a 24 hr time period. If there is any lead that percentage is computed over a time period and either will met or fail the FDA's test.

 

I would guess you could take an old Seagrove lead glazed plate, break off a shard and tape it to someones tongue and test them a year later for lead poisoning and you would not find a trace.

 

These old time potters lived into there 80's & 90's smoked and drank(in moderation of cource as not to imply an excessive consumption of moonshine, er, spirits) and hand dipped red lead oxide from a barrel, fired if wood fired kilns for most of their lives and died of hard work and old age.

Just another pointless POV

Wyndham

[OffCenter]

If anyone wants to trip out on something,consider that imports from everywhere but here the fda allows a higher lead leaching percentage than that of domesticly produced dinnerware.

Why?, Money, that's why there are lobbyist in DC.

As to red, there's copper red reduction, chrome/tin red ox, iron red reduction iron red ox cone 6 and all and more to 04 lead chrome red that the Seagrove potters make for years.

How does the FDA make quick spot test of glazes?,it's with a drop of nitric acid over a 24 hr time period. If there is any lead that percentage is computed over a time period and either will met or fail the FDA's test.

 

I would guess you could take an old Seagrove lead glazed plate, break off a shard and tape it to someones tongue and test them a year later for lead poisoning and you would not find a trace.

 

These old time potters lived into there 80's & 90's smoked and drank(in moderation of cource as not to imply an excessive consumption of moonshine, er, spirits) and hand dipped red lead oxide from a barrel, fired if wood fired kilns for most of their lives and died of hard work and old age.

Just another pointless POV

Wyndham

 

... and breathed clay dust everyday for decades.

[Benzine]

 

If anyone wants to trip out on something,consider that imports from everywhere but here the fda allows a higher lead leaching percentage than that of domesticly produced dinnerware.

Why?, Money, that's why there are lobbyist in DC.

As to red, there's copper red reduction, chrome/tin red ox, iron red reduction iron red ox cone 6 and all and more to 04 lead chrome red that the Seagrove potters make for years.

How does the FDA make quick spot test of glazes?,it's with a drop of nitric acid over a 24 hr time period. If there is any lead that percentage is computed over a time period and either will met or fail the FDA's test.

 

I would guess you could take an old Seagrove lead glazed plate, break off a shard and tape it to someones tongue and test them a year later for lead poisoning and you would not find a trace.

 

These old time potters lived into there 80's & 90's smoked and drank(in moderation of cource as not to imply an excessive consumption of moonshine, er, spirits) and hand dipped red lead oxide from a barrel, fired if wood fired kilns for most of their lives and died of hard work and old age.

Just another pointless POV

Wyndham

 

... and breathed clay dust everyday for decades.

 

Yeah, the farm families around here, are probably more at risk, from all the dust kicked up on the gravel roads, than most reasonably cautious potters are.

[jrgpots]

One of my very first glaze project out of the classroom was a chip bowl and salsa dish shaped like jalapeno peppers.  In my naivete, I glazed the peppers "red" with black stems.  The red ended up more of a "rusty wagon red" instead of a hot pepper red.  I just did not know how hard it is to get real reds. 

 

I had heard the story about the japanese potter who had one of his green pots turn red in reduction, could not reproduce it, then comitted suicide by throwing himself in the kiln.  The story goes that all the pots were red.

 

I had heard the story but had not internalized it in my practice.   Now I understand. If we are lucky, the only mistakes we make are the innocent ones.

 

By-the-way, that chip and salsa set ended up in a thrift market.

[oldlady]

claypple, have you truly understood what you read?  where did i say that these were my students?  will you please read the things that inflamed you in a few days or have a second person read them and see where i claimed it was my glaze?  please stop criticizing me for telling people that red is not red, and that it could be red instead.

 

MMB, somehow you have written a script for a movie instead of reading what i wrote.  i did not speak to these people.  at all.  i have no stake in their success or failure.  i was merely trying to tell people who might not know that red is not necessarily red.  nobody here has defined EXACTLY what i said that was so "arrogant".  WHAT are you talking about that i wrote that is so offensive to you?

 

anyone else want to take a potshot at me??

[trina]

no, but we could go play hockey .... T

[OffCenter]

no, but we could go play hockey .... T

 

Maybe ask Bobby Or and Bobby Orr to come along, too.

[trina]

 

no, but we could go play hockey .... T

 

 

Maybe ask Bobby Or and Bobby Orr to come along, too.

This is no time for jokes, people are getting way too serious and it makes my eyes wanna roll....T

[oldlady]

since this is a pottery forum shouldn't the name be bobby ohr?

 

 

trina, do not worry, i am laughing at all the comments and drama of what people IMAGINE i said.  let us hope they realize how foolish it is to make such ridiculous claims and hit the delete button on the most flagrant ones.

[OffCenter]

since this is a pottery forum shouldn't the name be bobby ohr?

 

 

trina, do not worry, i am laughing at all the comments and drama of what people IMAGINE i said.  let us hope they realize how foolish it is to make such ridiculous claims and hit the delete button on the most flagrant ones.

 

That's good, Oldlady! The Ohr thing.

 

You're right the comments did, in some cases, go a little overboard and distorted (or imagined) what you posted. I think it was just your out-of-the-blue preaching without getting some facts straight first. It also makes responses sound worse when we have to address you as "Oldlady". Just be glad there's no negative button anymore. A month or so ago I was down to something like minus 40. I sort of miss it because I was looking forward to seeing how low you had to go to see what was below "bad".

 

Jim

[Chris Campbell]

How embarrassing for you Jim!! You are at "Excellent". The new software likes you!

[Matt Oz]

Old lady,

 

I don't think it was your intention but your original post came across as condescending. I think that's why people are upset with it, not just how accurate the facts are.

[OffCenter]

How embarrassing for you Jim!! You are at "Excellent". The new software likes you!

 

I know! My reputation is ruined!

 

Jim

[SleepingBird]

This thread made me remember one of the questions that I've had a hard time finding an answer to. I've been making pendants with low fire commercial glazes, just for family and such, no hopes of selling anytime soon. For glazes that aren't marked as food safe, are they still safe to use on something like jewelry that will be in contact with the skin? I read the 'crackle' glazes may grow bacteria between the cracks making it an unsafe surface for food. Bacteria isn't something I'd like next to anyone's skin, so I'd like to know if I should avoid using these types of low fire commercial 'special effects' glazes on jewelry. And hey, we newbies don't say this often enough but we appreciate your time and dedication to helping us learn something new every day here and answering the (sometimes really in-your-face obvious) questions.

[Chris Campbell]

Use the glazes ... No worries. With pendants, it's a good idea to put a clear glaze on the skin facing side .. Not about bacteria but more about unglazed jewelry picking up makeup /oils / perfumes and dis coloring.

[oldlady]

jim, i am proud to be Oldlady.  my life ended once on an operating table and yet here i am 37 years later.  every easter is a celebration.

[OffCenter]

jim, i am proud to be Oldlady.  my life ended once on an operating table and yet here i am 37 years later.  every easter is a celebration.

 

Then I won't feel rude calling you that.

[oldlady]

finally got the picture that explains the entire thing.  see the first post.

 

and now i messed it up.  try again here

[Benzine]

This thread made me remember one of the questions that I've had a hard time finding an answer to. I've been making pendants with low fire commercial glazes, just for family and such, no hopes of selling anytime soon. For glazes that aren't marked as food safe, are they still safe to use on something like jewelry that will be in contact with the skin? I read the 'crackle' glazes may grow bacteria between the cracks making it an unsafe surface for food. Bacteria isn't something I'd like next to anyone's skin, so I'd like to know if I should avoid using these types of low fire commercial 'special effects' glazes on jewelry. And hey, we newbies don't say this often enough but we appreciate your time and dedication to helping us learn something new every day here and answering the (sometimes really in-your-face obvious) questions.

If you aren't eating of the surface, I wouldn't worry much about bacteria getting in the cracks.  There's another rough surface, where bacteria loves to hang out, it's our skin.  Those little beasties are everywhere.  I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[oldlady]

Monona Rossol, email ACTSNY@cs.com  said today that she will mail accurate information re the dangers of cadmium, even encapsulated cadmium, to anyone who wants it.  just ask.