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I need an easy way to measure sprayed glaze thickness


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#21 docweathers

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 11:38 AM

Jim

 

The surface techniques of Stephen Hill are definitely on my to buy list. And yes, I do hope to develop an eye for correct glaze thickness. However, given that I'm about 30 years less experienced than you are, I need to use whatever prostheses I can muster to catch up. Hopefully, I will be able to throw the tool away, like a cane, when it is no longer useful in training my eye.

 

 And. I do appreciate your advice from the perspective of an old, experienced Sage

 

Larry


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#22 OffCenter

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 01:46 PM

Jim

 

The surface techniques of Stephen Hill are definitely on my to buy list. And yes, I do hope to develop an eye for correct glaze thickness. However, given that I'm about 30 years less experienced than you are, I need to use whatever prostheses I can muster to catch up. Hopefully, I will be able to throw the tool away, like a cane, when it is no longer useful in training my eye.

 

 And. I do appreciate your advice from the perspective of an old, experienced Sage

 

Larry

 

Larry... I understand what you're saying and don't mean to pester you about not using tools, but I want to point out that I'm no experienced sage. I've been spraying glazes closer to 4 years than 30. I potted back in the 70's (worshiping the cone 10 reduction idol) but stopped because I saw no difference between production pottery and working in a factory and took 35 years off. Now, I've been potting 6 or so years and feel the same pressure you do to make up for lost time. Maybe that's why my work is all over the place now in the sense that I try everything I can.

 

Jim


E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#23 docweathers

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 03:39 PM

Jim

 

I've seen your stuff on your website  and you do some wonderful stuff. You have made amazing progress for four years of spraying glaze.

 

 I took some pottery classes back in graduate school and too worshiped the cone 10 reduction idol. I even considered being a professional potter until one day I walked into the studio and saw one of the extremely good instructors over in a corner throwing dozens of cups off of the hump. I had seen him do amazing things, so I was bewildered by why he was wasting his time on such trivia. So, I asked him that.  He looked up from the wheel and said "that's what sells".  I thought, if that's what even great potters have to do to make a living, then I was going to do something else. So, I have never since aspired to be a professional potter. Now, it is just a retirement hobby.

 

No, I am not wed to tools but I'm probably overly fixated on them since I started out this journey as a car mechanic, which is almost entirely dependent upon having the right tools.

 

Though a lot of what I have done has necessarily relied upon good "clinical feel", and essentially that is what you are advocating, I've always worked hard to ground that in something more concrete and measurable.

 

I don't see your feedback and suggestions as pestering. I appreciate your taking the time to offer me guidance.

 

Larry


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#24 OffCenter

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

Jim

 

I've seen your stuff on your website  and you do some wonderful stuff. You have made amazing progress for four years of spraying glaze.

 

 I took some pottery classes back in graduate school and too worshiped the cone 10 reduction idol. I even considered being a professional potter until one day I walked into the studio and saw one of the extremely good instructors over in a corner throwing dozens of cups off of the hump. I had seen him do amazing things, so I was bewildered by why he was wasting his time on such trivia. So, I asked him that.  He looked up from the wheel and said "that's what sells".  I thought, if that's what even great potters have to do to make a living, then I was going to do something else. So, I have never since aspired to be a professional potter. Now, it is just a retirement hobby.

 

No, I am not wed to tools but I'm probably overly fixated on them since I started out this journey as a car mechanic, which is almost entirely dependent upon having the right tools.

 

Though a lot of what I have done has necessarily relied upon good "clinical feel", and essentially that is what you are advocating, I've always worked hard to ground that in something more concrete and measurable.

 

I don't see your feedback and suggestions as pestering. I appreciate your taking the time to offer me guidance.

 

Larry

 

That's very interesting. Thanks for posting it and thanks for the kind words. I imagine there are many people like us who are disillusioned by the prospect that to make a living as a potter the two main courses are to teach it in high school or college or to become a dish-making machine.

 

Jim


E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#25 oldlady

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:46 PM

Doc, art is NOT science.  there are no answers.  just jump into the pool.  you will only get wet.


"putting you down does not raise me up."

#26 docweathers

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 11:24 PM

Some parts of ceramics are science, particularly glaze chemistry. I am just looking to bring some parts of this art within the procedures of science. I've spent far more my life in science than the arts. There is quite a bit from that world that could make the creative process more controllable and less random.

 

I'm in the water up to my neck and paddling hard. I just don't want to paddle in circles just hoping to reach shore.


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#27 Evelyne Schoenmann

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:10 AM

I just wanted to second Jim's advise: buy yourself the "Surface Techniques of Steven Hill"! That video will answer a few of your questions all right. I can also (in addition to Steven's) recommend "Understanding Glazes" by John Britt for glaze testing. 

You can download both videos via the Ceramic Arts Daily bookstore here - no waiting for the video to arrive via snail mail...

 

http://ceramicartsda...oadable-videos/

 

Happy potting!

 

Evelyne


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#28 docweathers

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:37 PM

Hi Eve

 

The Surface Techniques of Stephen Hill has been promised me by Ceramics Arts Monthly in exchange for an article I wrote for them.

 

I had seen the ads for Understanding Glazes by Jon Britt.  What unique does he offer for explanation of glazes that goes beyond what comes with Insight software? The Insight stuff is pretty thorough.

 

Larry


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#29 Min

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:00 PM

Hi Larry,

 

When I first started spraying glazes I often put them on to thinly. I came across the site linked below; they take a different approach to determining how much glaze to put on a pot. They use volume of glaze per surface area of pot. I tried this for the first few kiln loads I sprayed glazes on to get a proper feel for what the glaze should look like to get the correct coverage.

 

http://www.luepotter...glaze spray.pdf

 

Min



#30 docweathers

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:51 PM

Min

 

that's a great PDF on spraying glazes.

 

Thanks


Larry

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#31 Evelyne Schoenmann

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:11 AM

Hi Larry

 

I have heard of Insight, but never looked into the programm properly. What I like about the John Britt video (there are 2 CD's actually) is (and I don't know if Insight is covering that too): Color Blend; Progression Blend; Line Blend and Triaxial Blend. On CD #2 is "Understanding Materials" (Oxides, Opacifiers and Colorants). For a make-your-own-glaze-without-being-a-chemist beginner like I'am (I usually do pit- and drum firings, without glazes) there is a lot to get out of John's CD's. And there is pdf Bonus material like Color Blend Assignment cone6, Progression Assignment cone6, Triaxial Diagram, Triaxial with stains, recipes etc. too. So this CD is not about spraying in particular but more about the glazes themselves. If you know already a lot about doing your own glazes, this video was maybe not such a good recommendation to you.

I hope you will get the Steven Hill video soonest. Enjoy.

 

Min: what a great pdf file about spraying. Thank you muches for sharing.

 

Evelyne


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#32 michelkuipers

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:44 AM

In our studio in the Netherlands the work of my wife, Ines de Booij, concentrates on slipcast design vases. In spaaying glazes we apply a similar approach in controlling the thickness of the glaze layer as in dipping glazes. The glazes are prepared in a fixed thickness, similar to lowfat yoghurt. When we spray the glazes we let the spray surface just become shiny from the wet surface. This way the glazemix reacts to the level of absorption of the bisque ware. Beware of not changing the bisque firing temperature; the thickness of the glaze batches may differ with different glazes. I hope I am clear with my explanation.

 

www.michelkuipers.nl

www.inesdebooij.nl

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#33 yedrow

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:46 PM

I just watch to see how wet the surface gets and judge my thickness from that.

 

Joel.



#34 Denice

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:50 PM

Michelkuipers, Welcome to the forum you explanation was easily understood and keeping your bisque firing the same temperature hasn't been mentioned yet. I don't do that much spraying but your mention of the bisque firing gave me a reason for sticking to the same temp when bisque firing. Sometimes I'll go up or down in temp when I'm out of Cone 04, now I'll make a trip to the ceramic supply house.   Denice



#35 docweathers

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:21 PM

though I agree with all of you who have suggested that you have to develop an eye I to judge the thickness of glaze as it is applied, for me the feedback loop of a minimum of several weeks between spraying and getting something out of the kiln is too long to learn very much. After that length of the time I cannot remember exactly what the surface of the glazed look like as I was spraying it to compare that with my outcome.

 

So I have made another revision of my glaze thickness testing tool that seems to work quite well to both measure my glaze thickness and to train my eye to make that judgment without it.

 

It is made from six X-Acto knife blades, five little washers and a cable clamp. Though you can make scratches in the glaze with it, you really only need to poke straight in and then you can count the number of dots the blades make to determine the thickness. A flashlight oblique to the surface of the glaze makes it easier to see the dots.

 

The whole thing cost about five dollars.


Larry

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#36 oldlady

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:11 PM

whatever gets you through the night.


"putting you down does not raise me up."

#37 docweathers

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:51 PM

though I agree with all of you who have suggested that you have to develop an eye I to judge the thickness of glaze as it is applied, for me the feedback loop of a minimum of several weeks between spraying and getting something out of the kiln is too long to learn very much. After that length of the time I cannot remember exactly what the surface of the glazed look like as I was spraying it to compare that with my outcome.

 

So I have made another revision of my glaze thickness testing tool that seems to work quite well to both measure my glaze thickness and to train my eye to make that judgment without it.

 

It is made from six X-Acto knife blades, five little washers and a cable clamp. Though you can make scratches in the glaze with it, you really only need to poke straight in and then you can count the number of dots the blades make to determine the thickness. A flashlight oblique to the surface of the glaze makes it easier to see the dots.

 

The whole thing cost about five dollars.


Larry

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#38 docweathers

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:51 PM

though I agree with all of you who have suggested that you have to develop an eye I to judge the thickness of glaze as it is applied, for me the feedback loop of a minimum of several weeks between spraying and getting something out of the kiln is too long to learn very much. After that length of the time I cannot remember exactly what the surface of the glazed look like as I was spraying it to compare that with my outcome.

 

So I have made another revision of my glaze thickness testing tool that seems to work quite well to both measure my glaze thickness and to train my eye to make that judgment without it.

 

It is made from six X-Acto knife blades, five little washers and a cable clamp. Though you can make scratches in the glaze with it, you really only need to poke straight in and then you can count the number of dots the blades make to determine the thickness. A flashlight oblique to the surface of the glaze makes it easier to see the dots.

 

The whole thing cost about five dollars.

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Larry

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#39 jrgpots

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:25 PM

Do you take the measurement at just one site or do you take readings from multiple site and average the thickness +  standard deviation............just having fun with you.

 

I like your idea.  I'm glad to see you were able to come up with a devise that get you your quantitative answers.   It's good to have OCD somrtimes.   Most of us are OCD in something within our art, if we are honest enough to admit it.

 

Jed



#40 docweathers

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:05 PM

OCD works when the devil is in the details.

 

I started quite late in this race, so I need to leverage whatever gizmos I can come up with to catch up.


Larry

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