Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
docweathers

I need an easy way to measure sprayed glaze thickness

Recommended Posts

JBaymore    1,432

Calibrate the pin with files markings...... or........

 

Dentists use a pointed milimeter probe gauge to deal with some issues. It is just a metal tool. See if your dentist will give you an old one. It might be a milimeter or so off when it is no longer useful to them ..... but if it is available for free ........

 

Or........

 

http://www.ejpayne.com/glaze-thickness

 

http://www.ceramictestingequipment.co.uk/product.php?product=144

 

 

best,

 

..................john

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pompots    4

I use my needle tool, scratch a little bit, there you can see the thickness, the glaze would be unaffected by this minor scratch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mark C.    1,807

I to use a needle tool and can judge by the scratch which does not show.

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Marcia Selsor    1,301

John,

Those tools are amazing. I will stick with a pin tool for now, but nice to know it can be measured with high tech.

 

Marcia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Benzine    610

Calibrate the pin with files markings...... or........

 

Dentists use a pointed milimeter probe gauge to deal with some issues. It is just a metal tool. See if your dentist will give you an old one. It might be a milimeter or so off when it is no longer useful to them ..... but if it is available for free ........

 

 

 

best,

 

..................john

 

 

 

Thanks for the idea John! I just asked my wife, who works in a dental office, and she said they have some metal ones sitting around, they really don't use. They apparently have plastic ones, which everyone seems to prefer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OffCenter    82

I need an easy, simple, cheap way to measure the thickness of sprayed on glazes

 

 

Doc... Sprayed glazes go on so thin that I think you'll find that you'll just have to judge the thickness by eye. Sure a needle will help, but watching how the glaze goes on with a trained eye works better than any tool. Once you've used your guns enough to be very familiar with how each one sprays and adjusts and have sprayed enough pots to be very familiar with the way a glaze looks when it is getting too thick or how it shines or how quickly it dries on bisque and over other glazes you will not need to measure anything. It's like centering a pot to trim it. You can waste a lot of time holding a needle to it and stopping the wheel to move it over 1/16th of an inch and then holding the needle to it again or you can just let your body learn to tap on center.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
docweathers    79

I have been using the pin, scratch and look approach while spraying. I'm just not that good at any of those yet, but I'm sure in another 40 years huh.gif of potting I will get better. I would just hoping that you smart folks had come up with some real clever technique that even the maladroit like myself could make use of.

 

Thanks for all useful suggestions...Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
perkolator    54

i gauge this the same way i gauge how thick a glaze is after brushing on (or even when slipcasting) - take needle tool and scratch through the glaze surface somewhere inconspicuous (like at the foot), then simply look and see how deep the cut is. it's that simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
docweathers    79

I've always had a tendency to think things are more complicated than they are. I come up with the obvious answer, along the lines of what has been suggested, then think, all those guys are getting paid an awful lot of money to do this stuff (whatever this stuff might be at that point) so they must be doing something fancier than that. So, I keep looking beyond the obvious answer to see what all those guys getting paid so much money are doing to pay for their private jets:rolleyes:src="http://ceramicartsdaily.org/community/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif">.

 

Now tell me how many of you folks have paid for your private jet just making a little scratch or pin prick on a glazed pot to see how thick it is? And even if that's all you're doing, it is certainly good marketing to make it seem like a much more complicated, skill dependent and sophisticated technology. Are you sure it's not very important to use a beryllium alloy needle to poke the glaze?

 

Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JBaymore    1,432

Larry,

 

The key to most any pursuit is "puttin' in the hours". It is as simple as that.

 

I'm 64 in a few days... and been working with clay for well over 40 years now....almost all of that full time. I am just feeling like I finally know something about a very limited spectrum of the field.

 

Experience is a great teacher that helps you understand what all the "tools" are trying to be telling ya'.

 

It is a simple as observing accurately what you are doing. The problem is that developing that necessary observational skill is a bear.

 

Read Malcolm Gladwell's thoughts on folks like Yoyo Ma, Bill Gates, and others (The Outliers).

 

best,

 

.......................john

 

 

 

PS: Gotta' go do the pre-flight chacklist on my Lear.cool.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
docweathers    79

Hi John

 

I agree with you thoroughly. I'm a pretty good observer, but my problem is I turn 69 in a few weeks. I've spent the last 40 years chasing other carrots and I don't have another 40 to case this one. Thus, I'm always looking for a few shortcuts to trim a few years off of the 40 that many people on this forum reference.

 

I too like Outliers by Gadwell. I always like folks who cut through cultural myths. my current favorite is Antifragile by Nassim Taleb .

 

Thanks

 

Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
docweathers    79

Attached is a picture of my first attempt at a cheap glaze depth measuring tool. It as just a bunch of tiny finish nails soldered together with some E 6000 glue over the solder to give a nice handle. It is about an inch and a quarter long.  The picture makes it look like an evil little bug.

post-6406-0-09186000-1376958023_thumb.jpg

post-6406-0-09186000-1376958023_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mark C.    1,807

Doc a needle tool does the same or better job and does not look like a  grizzly vampire weapon.

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OffCenter    82

Knowing your glazes and equipment and developing an eye for thickness is even better than the needle. It's sort of like tapping on center in that it takes practice but is far better than using a needle (or a Griffin Grip) to center a pot.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
docweathers    79

You old wizards have a lifetime of swatting clay and scratching glazes. I'm a raw beginner trying to play catch-up by developing prostheses for my meager skills. To play catch-up, I'm literally firing hundreds of test tiles at a time. Thus, I have to have some way of objectively quantifying and recording my procedures so that I have some hope of repeating the stuff that turns out good.

 

My problem was scratching glazes is how do you calibrate it and record that calibration for future reference after firing. With my little tool, I can just count how many pins deep the glaze is and record that number.

.

 

Or, maybe all of the above is just confabulation and I am just "man the toolmaker".

 

Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oldlady    1,323

you may be anticipating problems that probably won't happen.  if you spray your glaze too thin you can refire it later and it will be ok.  if you spray it too thickly you will most likely notice it immediately and wash it off and start over.  do not start with your favorite never to be repeated masterpiece.  fire on broken shelf pieces if you suspect anything bad might happen.

 

if you want to practice, use something to test spray glaze onto, like non-shiny cardboard.  you should notice the look of the sprayed glaze as it dries.  if it looks a little like chunky  velvet, it is probably perfect.  if you go beyond that, the glaze will take a while to dry instead of being almost immediate. you will lose the velvetyness and the surface will look like paint and probably run down the piece.  running down means something is wrong with the consistency of the liquid being sprayed or the speed you are spraying

 

this assumes that you are using a reasonable thickness of glaze, the right kind of sprayer, the humidity is just right, the moon is in the proper phase and the human sacrifice is acceptable to the glaze gods. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
docweathers    79

You are right, I am highly inclined to make simple things complex.  But isn't that the way science progresses. It's by looking in the black boxes that you find  answers.. ie. "this assumes that you are using a reasonable thickness of glaze, the right kind of sprayer, the humidity is just right, the moon is in the proper phase and the human sacrifice is acceptable to the glaze gods. :)" My theory is that all of these things are not very relevant if the glazes goes on reasonably smooth and I have the right thickness.  If you look at the history of science, one of the hinge points of progress is improved measurement technology... In my case it may be the Ugly little bug tool.

 

From my limited experience, it seems as if many glazes respond quite differently to different thickness of application. This is particularly true when you're doing 2 to 3 layers of glaze, which is the majority of what I am fumbling with. ... or as I said in a previous post, this may be just a case of "man the toolmaker". Then again, if I look around for guidance, this may be just the first step to workshop, a CD, an article or a book :wacko: ??

 

Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OffCenter    82
Then again, if I look around for guidance, this may be just the first step to workshop, a CD, an article or a book :wacko: ??

 

Larry

 

You may already have it and/or I may have suggested it before, but in "The Surface Techniques of Steven Hill", he covers applying layers of glazes and how to control thickness. While the tool you made is clever it is probably worthless. Even several layers of glaze applied with a spray gun correctly would be too thin for your tool to measure. If you're determined to use a tool instead of learning how to gauge thickness by eye and technique, then a simple needle tool is all you need.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
docweathers    79

Jim

 

The surface techniques of Stephen Hill are definitely on my to buy list. And yes, I do hope to develop an eye for correct glaze thickness. However, given that I'm about 30 years less experienced than you are, I need to use whatever prostheses I can muster to catch up. Hopefully, I will be able to throw the tool away, like a cane, when it is no longer useful in training my eye.

 

 And. I do appreciate your advice from the perspective of an old, experienced Sage

 

Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OffCenter    82

Jim

 

The surface techniques of Stephen Hill are definitely on my to buy list. And yes, I do hope to develop an eye for correct glaze thickness. However, given that I'm about 30 years less experienced than you are, I need to use whatever prostheses I can muster to catch up. Hopefully, I will be able to throw the tool away, like a cane, when it is no longer useful in training my eye.

 

 And. I do appreciate your advice from the perspective of an old, experienced Sage

 

Larry

 

Larry... I understand what you're saying and don't mean to pester you about not using tools, but I want to point out that I'm no experienced sage. I've been spraying glazes closer to 4 years than 30. I potted back in the 70's (worshiping the cone 10 reduction idol) but stopped because I saw no difference between production pottery and working in a factory and took 35 years off. Now, I've been potting 6 or so years and feel the same pressure you do to make up for lost time. Maybe that's why my work is all over the place now in the sense that I try everything I can.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
docweathers    79

Jim

 

I've seen your stuff on your website  and you do some wonderful stuff. You have made amazing progress for four years of spraying glaze.

 

 I took some pottery classes back in graduate school and too worshiped the cone 10 reduction idol. I even considered being a professional potter until one day I walked into the studio and saw one of the extremely good instructors over in a corner throwing dozens of cups off of the hump. I had seen him do amazing things, so I was bewildered by why he was wasting his time on such trivia. So, I asked him that.  He looked up from the wheel and said "that's what sells".  I thought, if that's what even great potters have to do to make a living, then I was going to do something else. So, I have never since aspired to be a professional potter. Now, it is just a retirement hobby.

 

No, I am not wed to tools but I'm probably overly fixated on them since I started out this journey as a car mechanic, which is almost entirely dependent upon having the right tools.

 

Though a lot of what I have done has necessarily relied upon good "clinical feel", and essentially that is what you are advocating, I've always worked hard to ground that in something more concrete and measurable.

 

I don't see your feedback and suggestions as pestering. I appreciate your taking the time to offer me guidance.

 

Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OffCenter    82

Jim

 

I've seen your stuff on your website  and you do some wonderful stuff. You have made amazing progress for four years of spraying glaze.

 

 I took some pottery classes back in graduate school and too worshiped the cone 10 reduction idol. I even considered being a professional potter until one day I walked into the studio and saw one of the extremely good instructors over in a corner throwing dozens of cups off of the hump. I had seen him do amazing things, so I was bewildered by why he was wasting his time on such trivia. So, I asked him that.  He looked up from the wheel and said "that's what sells".  I thought, if that's what even great potters have to do to make a living, then I was going to do something else. So, I have never since aspired to be a professional potter. Now, it is just a retirement hobby.

 

No, I am not wed to tools but I'm probably overly fixated on them since I started out this journey as a car mechanic, which is almost entirely dependent upon having the right tools.

 

Though a lot of what I have done has necessarily relied upon good "clinical feel", and essentially that is what you are advocating, I've always worked hard to ground that in something more concrete and measurable.

 

I don't see your feedback and suggestions as pestering. I appreciate your taking the time to offer me guidance.

 

Larry

 

That's very interesting. Thanks for posting it and thanks for the kind words. I imagine there are many people like us who are disillusioned by the prospect that to make a living as a potter the two main courses are to teach it in high school or college or to become a dish-making machine.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oldlady    1,323

Doc, art is NOT science.  there are no answers.  just jump into the pool.  you will only get wet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×