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#1 wayver138

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:20 AM

I have entered a strange situation in terms of education and would really appreciate any advice or experiences. I have been in a Studio Art program and have the expected graduation date with a bachelors in Summer 2014. Well, the ceramics department has been shut down indefinitely as there is no faculty nor facilities to further support it. This is a very recent and sudden change so I did not really have a back up plan or the like. However, knowing the program was sub par in the beginning, I set up a modest home studio and have been attending workshops and community classes to help support my education in ceramics.


Here are my questions...

Originally, my plan was to attend graduate school and hopefully become an instructor in the college setting. Since then, the current education system has been scaring me off. My issue being a case in point. I have been looking at job postings in different community studios as a teacher or studio tech for future reference (I know that I am obviously not ready for a job in the field yet). Many of them require a BFA or BA. However, can a good portfolio and knowledge of a studio cause the bachelors requirement to be overlooked?

On one hand, if I stick with the program at school, I will come out with a bachelor's degree and have the piece of paper essentially but no ceramics experience behind it. On the other, I have looked into quitting school (saving a lot of money, time, and gas) and attending more workshops, developing my skill set and knowledge of a studio. Lately, I have been very discouraged by the program I am in as I feel it is taking up my time from ceramics with courses that will not particularly aid me in the future as well as hindering me from developing. I have been inquiring about studio assistantships as well as the ceramics program at Haywood Community College (they seem to have a lot of exciting things going on there) but this only leads to an Associate's degree.



Basically, what I am wondering is if I can get a job at a community studio or something similar as a teacher or tech without a bachelors degree? Many of the studios list it as a requirement but can a good portfolio and good, reputable workshop history negate that?


I have always felt that you get out what you put in, so to speak, so workshops, assistantships, and residencies are all avenues that I want to delve in to.

My main career goal is to be involved with a community studio as well as being a studio potter myself. And yes, I also have other interests that will help supplement my income into a decent living Posted Image



I really appreciate any advice, I know it is a bit of a loaded question.

-Amanda

#2 Benzine

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:28 AM

I do not teach, at the post-secondary level, so I am not an expert on what such institutions require. However, all the colleges, in my area, seem to require at least a Masters to teach there. I'm sure there may be exceptions, but from what I've seen this is the case.

I would say, that each potential employing college will be different, in regards to what they are looking for, from their hires. If you can get your foot in the door enough, to show them your portfolio, you might luck out. But if they don't see anything about the Arts, on your degree, you might not even get a shot.

Is there any possibility, you could continue your studies at another college/ university nearby? I know it's not the same everywhere, but there are five colleges/ community colleges/ universities, within an hour of me. I wouldn't want to commute to them everyday for four years, but if you are finishing a degree, a commute would be reasonable, and a solid investment.

Best of luck, in whatever you decide.
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#3 wayver138

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:52 AM

Benzine, thank you for the insight.

Yes, I understand that college teaching requires a MFA, however, as I said, I am looking to going into a different direction as college/university teaching seems to not be very promising. I still have a strong desire for teaching but without the politics of the education system. I would also prefer to teach people with an actual interest in ceramics unlike many of the other students I have had classes with.

The problem with switching to a different university is that most have passed deadlines for the upcoming semester as well as the commute. Also, I have taken upper level studio courses which many universities will not transfer as they prefer all or most upper level courses to be taught from one institution. All those scenarios push a graduation date back a lot.


My main question is will I be just as hirable to a community studio as a community class teacher or tech as well as eventual workshop instructor without a bachelor's degree (but with a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience) as someone who does have a bachelors?



Also for future reference, I have been looking into different residencies and fellowship opportunities. I have noticed that none of them out right require a degree to apply but many of the past artists do have a degree. Is this an unspoken requirement or is this because many are in between stages of higher education?



#4 JBaymore

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:10 AM

The absolutely MOST expensive college education you can get is one in which you do not complete your degree. Effectively, you've wasted a HUGE amount of the money you spent. (Yes... you gained the education from the experience....... and that can be very useful...... so it is ALL not totally "gone". ) However, the thing that potentially earns back the big investment is typically that nice little "piece of paper".

So I'd tend to say don't give up if summer 14 is your graduation date...... you only have one year left. Look into maybe transferring. You MIGHT be able to carry most of the credits with you. It would be a SHAME to do your Senior year without some good ceramics mentors and instruction....... so look for options as "Plan A".

Or look at just settling with finishing up with a BA in some other discipline at your existing school, that the school will allow you to shift over to without losing any credits or having to add more courses. THEY owe you .... what with dropping your major department with you still enrolled in the major. Bad Karma. So lean on them (politely) to help you out with either a placement in another related college in the articulation system they might have.... or with another school.

Be a strong advocate for yourself..... if you don't .... no one will. Use the resoruces you are currently paying for (advising, career services, Deans, Presidents, etc.) to help you solve this issue in the best way possible. Can you maybe get THEM to pay for some tuition at places (otehr schools, workshops, and so on) that DO have decent ceramics facilities and faculty... but keep the credits under your existing schoool? Explore the options.

Then if the "paper chase" is still important to you, find a good MFA program with a strong ceramics focus to bolster what you missed in your Senior year of undergrad.

As to teaching at the post-secondary level...... about 99.99999999999999999999% of the potential college positions will likely require a Masters. Crap... even many Studio Tech positions now say they want an MFA as a basic qualification (absurd!). (Our Studio Tech has a BFA.... and like a LOT of job situations available in the post secondary field... we hired one of our own grads for this position. A well known quantity.) Almost all Studio Tech positions ask for a BA or BFA. Studio Tech positions at community and craft centers are often a little more flexible in this regard. Occasionally a college will hire someone who is very skilled with a BFA or BA as a teacher.... but it is quite rare these days.

Teaching at community centers and craft centers is far more possible without the Masters.... but because the "market" is saturated with MFAs looking for teaching work........ that area is getting harder to crack without at least the BFA also. Far from impossible.... but your work better be good and you'd better be a dynamic presenter/teacher. And like ALL jobs..... the old addage "you need experience to get a job, and you can't get a job without experience" figures in here also.

You have a bit of a "mixed message" in that posting about your goals. Teaching at post-secondary level and studio artist CERTAINLY have some great overlap.... but in general require some different skill sets.

If your goal is to be a studio artist... you absolutely do not NEED a BA/BFA or a Mastrers. Make work and sell it. But there too... the formal "credentials" are often looked at by good galleries and venues for things like workshops. So not having that does make your road a lot "bumpier". And you really want to get some additional instruction in running a business, marketing, and other such stuff to help make things run well.

No easy answers. You are going to have to do a lot of soul searching. And look at all the alternatives. Then weigh them out. And make a decision. But as you are making that decision.... realize that it is not a "final sentence". Most people's lives and career paths look more like a random scribble than a straight line.

Best of luck.


best,

...................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#5 JBaymore

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

Just saw this new posting that was made as I was doing my other one........

The problem with switching to a different university is that most have passed deadlines for the upcoming semester as well as the commute. Also, I have taken upper level studio courses which many universities will not transfer as they prefer all or most upper level courses to be taught from one institution. All those scenarios push a graduation date back a lot.



Many things can be "done" if the right person is attending to them. Every "rule" can be broken wit hthe right signature on it. You need to get someone at your college in a "high position" to be an advocate for you. THAT is you goal right now. Find that person. If you have to go to the college's President... then do so. You have NOTHING to lose. And again... they created this problem for you.... let them help to solve it.

My main question is will I be just as hirable to a community studio as a community class teacher or tech as well as eventual workshop instructor without a bachelor's degree (but with a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience) as someone who does have a bachelors?


The short answer is that the better your credentials... the higher up the "potential hire" list you are. There are lots of people with "......a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience" that ALSO have a BFA or MFA that will be looking at the same positions.


Also for future reference, I have been looking into different residencies and fellowship opportunities. I have noticed that none of them out right require a degree to apply but many of the past artists do have a degree. Is this an unspoken requirement or is this because many are in between stages of higher education?


The same thing I said directly above applies here.

best,

.........................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#6 GEP

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

My main question is will I be just as hirable to a community studio as a community class teacher or tech as well as eventual workshop instructor without a bachelor's degree (but with a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience) as someone who does have a bachelors?


Yes, but these jobs do not provide an income that you can support yourself with. At best it is a side income stream. Not a complete plan, but can be part of a larger plan.

At the community center where I teach, I do not have a degree in ceramics, though I do have a BA in something else. The studio tech does not have a degree in ceramics either, she was trained on the job by the previous tech, and she does a terrific job.

Mea
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Good Elephant Pottery
http://www.goodelephant.com

#7 wayver138

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:34 AM

The absolutely MOST expensive college education you can get is one in which you do not complete your degree. Effectively, you've wasted a HUGE amount of the money you spent. (Yes... you gained the education from the experience....... and that can be very useful...... so it is ALL not totally "gone". ) However, the thing that potentially earns back the big investment is typically that nice little "piece of paper".

So I'd tend to say don't give up if summer 14 is your graduation date...... you only have one year left. Look into maybe transferring. You MIGHT be able to carry most of the credits with you. It would be a SHAME to do your Senior year without some good ceramics mentors and instruction....... so look for options as "Plan A".

Or look at just settling with finishing up with a BA in some other discipline at your existing school, that the school will allow you to shift over to without losing any credits or having to add more courses. THEY owe you .... what with dropping your major department with you still enrolled in the major. Bad Karma. So lean on them (politely) to help you out with either a placement in another related college in the articulation system they might have.... or with another school.

Be a strong advocate for yourself..... if you don't .... no one will. Use the resoruces you are currently paying for (advising, career services, Deans, Presidents, etc.) to help you solve this issue in the best way possible. Can you maybe get THEM to pay for some tuition at places (otehr schools, workshops, and so on) that DO have decent ceramics facilities and faculty... but keep the credits under your existing schoool? Explore the options.

Then if the "paper chase" is still important to you, find a good MFA program with a strong ceramics focus to bolster what you missed in your Senior year of undergrad.

As to teaching at the post-secondary level...... about 99.99999999999999999999% of the potential college positions will likely require a Masters. Crap... even many Studio Tech positions now say they want an MFA as a basic qualification (absurd!). (Our Studio Tech has a BFA.... and like a LOT of job situations available in the post secondary field... we hired one of our own grads for this position. A well known quantity.) Almost all Studio Tech positions ask for a BA or BFA. Studio Tech positions at community and craft centers are often a little more flexible in this regard. Occasionally a college will hire someone who is very skilled with a BFA or BA.... but it is quite rare these days.

Teaching at community centers and craft centers is far more possible without the Masters.... but because the "market" is saturated with MFAs looking for teaching work........ that area is getting harder to crack without at least the BFA also. Far from impossible.... but your work better be good and you'd better be a dynamic presenter/teacher. And like ALL jobs..... the old addage "you need experience to get a job, and you can't get a job without experience" figures in here also.

You have a bit of a "mixed message" in that posting about your goals. Teaching at post-secondary level and studio artist CERTAINLY have some great overlap.... but in general require some different skill sets.

If your goal is to be a studio artist... you absolutely do not NEED a BA/BFA or a Mastrers. Make work and sell it. But there too... the formal "credentials" are often looked at by good galleries and venues for things like workshops. So not having that does make your road a lot "bumpier". And you really want to get some additional instruction in running a business, marketing, and other such stuff to help make things run well.

No easy answers. You are going to have to do a lot of soul searching. And look at all the alternatives. Then weigh them out. And make a decision. But as you are making that decision.... realize that it is not a "final sentence". Most people's lives and career paths look more like a random scribble than a straight line.

Best of luck.


best,

...................john



Thank you, Mr. Baymore. I really appreciate your post, it is extremely helpful.


To clear up the mixed message...I really would like to be a studio potter but I would like to teach community classes and workshops on the side because I still have the desire and passion to teach in some form even if it is just for side money.


I have tried talking to the department but they have been all over the place and have certainly thrown me through the loop with mixed answers to what should be obvious questions. It seems as if they are more concerned with recruiting new students (into underdeveloped programs, I might add) rather than taking care of the ones that are nearing graduation. It is frustrating because even with all of the money, time, and commitment I have put into my education, I feel it is not giving me the skills I need nor preparing me for the next step.

#8 wayver138

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 11:46 AM

Just saw this new posting that was made as I was doing my other one........

The problem with switching to a different university is that most have passed deadlines for the upcoming semester as well as the commute. Also, I have taken upper level studio courses which many universities will not transfer as they prefer all or most upper level courses to be taught from one institution. All those scenarios push a graduation date back a lot.



Many things can be "done" if the right person is attending to them. Every "rule" can be broken wit hthe right signature on it. You need to get someone at your college in a "high position" to be an advocate for you. THAT is you goal right now. Find that person. If you have to go to the college's President... then do so. You have NOTHING to lose. And again... they created this problem for you.... let them help to solve it.

My main question is will I be just as hirable to a community studio as a community class teacher or tech as well as eventual workshop instructor without a bachelor's degree (but with a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience) as someone who does have a bachelors?


The short answer is that the better your credentials... the higher up the "potential hire" list you are. There are lots of people with "......a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience" that ALSO have a BFA or MFA that will be looking at the same positions.


Also for future reference, I have been looking into different residencies and fellowship opportunities. I have noticed that none of them out right require a degree to apply but many of the past artists do have a degree. Is this an unspoken requirement or is this because many are in between stages of higher education?


The same thing I said directly above applies here.

best,

.........................john



This makes a lot of sense, I suppose it works like most other jobs. Another thing, if I stuck with getting my BA but in a different dicipline, will that hinder me just as much or is that where that "piece of paper" comes in?

#9 wayver138

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:01 PM


My main question is will I be just as hirable to a community studio as a community class teacher or tech as well as eventual workshop instructor without a bachelor's degree (but with a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience) as someone who does have a bachelors?


Yes, but these jobs do not provide an income that you can support yourself with. At best it is a side income stream. Not a complete plan, but can be part of a larger plan.

At the community center where I teach, I do not have a degree in ceramics, though I do have a BA in something else. The studio tech does not have a degree in ceramics either, she was trained on the job by the previous tech, and she does a terrific job.

Mea



Thank you for the reply.
I understand that it would not be a sole source of income and rather be part of a larger plan, as you said. I would really like to teach and be involved in an art center just to be a part of that community and because I do have the desire to teach even if not for a living.


Congratulations on the new studio renovation, by the way! The post on that gave me a lot of practical ideas on my own studio that is in the works.

#10 JBaymore

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:13 PM


Just saw this new posting that was made as I was doing my other one........

The problem with switching to a different university is that most have passed deadlines for the upcoming semester as well as the commute. Also, I have taken upper level studio courses which many universities will not transfer as they prefer all or most upper level courses to be taught from one institution. All those scenarios push a graduation date back a lot.



Many things can be "done" if the right person is attending to them. Every "rule" can be broken wit hthe right signature on it. You need to get someone at your college in a "high position" to be an advocate for you. THAT is you goal right now. Find that person. If you have to go to the college's President... then do so. You have NOTHING to lose. And again... they created this problem for you.... let them help to solve it.

My main question is will I be just as hirable to a community studio as a community class teacher or tech as well as eventual workshop instructor without a bachelor's degree (but with a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience) as someone who does have a bachelors?


The short answer is that the better your credentials... the higher up the "potential hire" list you are. There are lots of people with "......a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience" that ALSO have a BFA or MFA that will be looking at the same positions.


Also for future reference, I have been looking into different residencies and fellowship opportunities. I have noticed that none of them out right require a degree to apply but many of the past artists do have a degree. Is this an unspoken requirement or is this because many are in between stages of higher education?


The same thing I said directly above applies here.

best,

.........................john



This makes a lot of sense, I suppose it works like most other jobs. Another thing, if I stuck with getting my BA but in a different dicipline, will that hinder me just as much or is that where that "piece of paper" comes in?


Thanks.

Jobs are jobs. Business or corporate or academic politics exist all over. It is a fact of life. You learn to deal with it. Part of the "college education" you get is just this... learning to deal with other people and operational structures.

While there are no guarantees on anything in life, if you have a BA in Art, a strong ceramics portfolio, and some ceramics teaching experiences listed on the resume', I think it certainly can't HURT you when compared to not having any degree at all. BEST would, of course, be having the BFA in Ceramics after your name.... but if that is not possible.... the BA in Art might be the "best of the available options".

Sometimes you have to make "lemonade" out of the lemons.

But don't get out the lemon squeezer just yet!

You said you "talked to the department". I am thinking that means that you have not yet gone to someone ABOVE the department level to get some options and answers????? Depending on the school..... there are usually a couple of layers of people ABOVE the people at the Department level that CAN help sometimes. Just make sure as much as possible to not "tick off" the art department people as you approach this problem. Don't "throw them under the bus" too directly unless you have reached the absolute "end of the line".

Work your way slowly and politely up the line of "powers that be" until you reach the last of your options. That last option may actually be someone a bit "outside" the college in a sense.... a member of the Board of Directors of the college. Most schools have them in one form or another. Get one of thei Board's member's ear... and somtimes amazing things can happen. Suddenly, all the BS goes away. (Unfortunately.... this is the way the world works in SO MANY things.)

But you absolutely must show that you have worked you way up the ladder if it gets that far. And be able to show that your actions were professional all the time as you dealt with it. Inside you may want to kill somone.... but don't let a speck of that show on the outside. Follow up every meeting / conversation with a polite written piece that expresses your thanks and states your undertstanding of what went on and what options were discussed.

You might find that you have more options than you think you do to solve this. Persistence and determination go a long way to succeeding in life. Go get em'.

BTW........ See your profile... I left a note there.

best,

.......................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#11 GEP

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:30 PM

If I was in this situstion, I would find out exactly how long it would take, and how much it would cost, to get the Associates Degree from Haywood Community College. If it is in the ballpark of the time/cost to complete your Bachelors, then I would do that. I think that "piece of paper" from a vibrant ceramics program will be a lot more valuable than a Bachelor of Vagueness from the University of We Don't Care.

I once met a bright young potter who just got her Associates at a community college with a strong ceramics program. She was headed off to the MFA program at Arizona State. Not too shabby. Even if you are not interested in the MFA route anymore, the point is an Associates degree from a good program can still open a lot of doors.

(glad you found my blog post about the new studio useful!)

Mea
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#12 wayver138

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

If I was in this situstion, I would find out exactly how long it would take, and how much it would cost, to get the Associates Degree from Haywood Community College. If it is in the ballpark of the time/cost to complete your Bachelors, then I would do that. I think that "piece of paper" from a vibrant ceramics program will be a lot more valuable than a Bachelor of Vagueness from the University of We Don't Care.

I once met a bright young potter who just got her Associates at a community college with a strong ceramics program. She was headed off to the MFA program at Arizona State. Not too shabby. Even if you are not interested in the MFA route anymore, the point is an Associates degree from a good program can still open a lot of doors.

(glad you found my blog post about the new studio useful!)

Mea




I have been looking more and more into this route as it seems like a much more valuable way to spend my time. They also require business courses within the arts program as well as more specific ceramics courses. It seems that they have genuine interest in preparing students for what comes after graduation. Not to mention, they have very impressive facilities in comparison to what was at my college.

#13 wayver138

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 12:57 PM



Just saw this new posting that was made as I was doing my other one........

The problem with switching to a different university is that most have passed deadlines for the upcoming semester as well as the commute. Also, I have taken upper level studio courses which many universities will not transfer as they prefer all or most upper level courses to be taught from one institution. All those scenarios push a graduation date back a lot.



Many things can be "done" if the right person is attending to them. Every "rule" can be broken wit hthe right signature on it. You need to get someone at your college in a "high position" to be an advocate for you. THAT is you goal right now. Find that person. If you have to go to the college's President... then do so. You have NOTHING to lose. And again... they created this problem for you.... let them help to solve it.

My main question is will I be just as hirable to a community studio as a community class teacher or tech as well as eventual workshop instructor without a bachelor's degree (but with a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience) as someone who does have a bachelors?


The short answer is that the better your credentials... the higher up the "potential hire" list you are. There are lots of people with "......a strong portfolio, workshop background, and assistantship experience" that ALSO have a BFA or MFA that will be looking at the same positions.


Also for future reference, I have been looking into different residencies and fellowship opportunities. I have noticed that none of them out right require a degree to apply but many of the past artists do have a degree. Is this an unspoken requirement or is this because many are in between stages of higher education?


The same thing I said directly above applies here.

best,

.........................john



This makes a lot of sense, I suppose it works like most other jobs. Another thing, if I stuck with getting my BA but in a different dicipline, will that hinder me just as much or is that where that "piece of paper" comes in?


Thanks.

Jobs are jobs. Business or corporate or academic politics exist all over. It is a fact of life. You learn to deal with it. Part of the "college education" you get is just this... learning to deal with other people and operational structures.

While there are no guarantees on anything in life, if you have a BA in Art, a strong ceramics portfolio, and some ceramics teaching experiences listed on the resume', I think it certainly can't HURT you when compared to not having any degree at all. BEST would, of course, be having the BFA in Ceramics after your name.... but if that is not possible.... the BA in Art might be the "best of the available options".

Sometimes you have to make "lemonade" out of the lemons.

But don't get out the lemon squeezer just yet!

You said you "talked to the department". I am thinking that means that you have not yet gone to someone ABOVE the department level to get some options and answers????? Depending on the school..... there are usually a couple of layers of people ABOVE the people at the Department level that CAN help sometimes. Just make sure as much as possible to not "tick off" the art department people as you approach this problem. Don't "throw them under the bus" too directly unless you have reached the absolute "end of the line".

Work your way slowly and politely up the line of "powers that be" until you reach the last of your options. That last option may actually be someone a bit "outside" the college in a sense.... a member of the Board of Directors of the college. Most schools have them in one form or another. Get one of thei Board's member's ear... and somtimes amazing things can happen. Suddenly, all the BS goes away. (Unfortunately.... this is the way the world works in SO MANY things.)

But you absolutely must show that you have worked you way up the ladder if it gets that far. And be able to show that your actions were professional all the time as you dealt with it. Inside you may want to kill somone.... but don't let a speck of that show on the outside. Follow up every meeting / conversation with a polite written piece that expresses your thanks and states your undertstanding of what went on and what options were discussed.

You might find that you have more options than you think you do to solve this. Persistence and determination go a long way to succeeding in life. Go get em'.

BTW........ See your profile... I left a note there.

best,

.......................john





I have kept my wits so far! I will find out who a better person to talk to next would be. It is very strange in the way all of this has been handled as it seems very unoffcial. Again, thank you so much for all of the insight.



As to the post on my profile...duly noted and I will begin working on that.

#14 Mark C.

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

When you are chasing paper (degrees) its best to finish the chase no matter what you do later.
I have a BA in art with ceramics being the primary-Never used it (except daily) as I have always been a studio Potter working for myself.
I suggest you do whatever it takes to wrap up that BA wherever you have to go.
Mark
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#15 JBaymore

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 04:56 PM

When you are chasing paper (degrees) its best to finish the chase no matter what you do later.
I have a BA in art with ceramics being the primary-Never used it (except daily) as I have always been a studio Potter working for myself.
I suggest you do whatever it takes to wrap up that BA wherever you have to go.
Mark


Mark,

Seems like an excellent pice of advice, at least to me. And you DO likely use it daily... in many ways. In addition to being someone with a broad core educational base from a college education, a well trained artist, an astute business man, and a person with some serious work ethic (wow!), I would bet that having that "piece of paper" probably has been noticed in the background if not overtly by many people you deal with.

best,

.......................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#16 Diane Puckett

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:22 PM

I agree with What everyone has said. Haywood does seem to have a terrific program. Perhaps some of their classes might be transferable back to your current college and count toward a BA there. Your college has left you in a rotten position, and there is quite possibly a way they can make adjustments to help you get a BA that works for you. The university where I did my undergrad degree had a Bachelors of Individualized Studies which allowed students to design a curriculum that fit their own needs. Regardless, I recommend finishing the BA if at all possible. You may not want to get an MFA now, but you might want to in the future, and you will need a BA to do so.

My impression is that getting a college degree in ceramics forces one to develop an artistic maturity and style that otherwise takes decades to develop.
Diane Puckett
Dry Ridge Pottery

#17 wayver138

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:53 PM

I wanted to again thank everyone for taking the time to post their opinions and experiences. It has certainly provoked a lot of thinking. The issue I can't get out of my mind and come to terms with, however, is at what point does a higher degree and that "piece of paper" take precedence over a quality education. I feel that Haywood, despite it being an Associate's degree, would actually help further my education rather than wallowing in the university I am at now (i.e. taking studio courses across the board with no general focus and no ceramics courses). I have been in college for a good amount of time now and have taken many upper level courses in many areas like chemistry, botany, psychology, and journalism. I began college at an earlier age and therefore changed majors a lot. In that respect, I do feel I have taken advantage of the education system by dipping my feet into everything. However, the other piece of advice that hit me hard and rings true was in Mr. Baymore's first post: "The absolutely MOST expensive college education you can get is one in which you do not complete your degree."


Again, I can't thank everyone enough for your thoughts and advice! I have a lot of thinking to do and plan on setting up a meeting at my current school to go over any other options.

#18 Pres

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:20 PM

I wanted to again thank everyone for taking the time to post their opinions and experiences. It has certainly provoked a lot of thinking. The issue I can't get out of my mind and come to terms with, however, is at what point does a higher degree and that "piece of paper" take precedence over a quality education. I feel that Haywood, despite it being an Associate's degree, would actually help further my education rather than wallowing in the university I am at now (i.e. taking studio courses across the board with no general focus and no ceramics courses). I have been in college for a good amount of time now and have taken many upper level courses in many areas like chemistry, botany, psychology, and journalism. I began college at an earlier age and therefore changed majors a lot. In that respect, I do feel I have taken advantage of the education system by dipping my feet into everything. However, the other piece of advice that hit me hard and rings true was in Mr. Baymore's first post: "The absolutely MOST expensive college education you can get is one in which you do not complete your degree."

Again, I can't thank everyone enough for your thoughts and advice! I have a lot of thinking to do and plan on setting up a meeting at my current school to go over any other options.


I am a retired Art teacher-loved it. About 8 years ago my niece was thinking of a college major. She decided to go the MA route instead of the Art Ed. route that I suggested. Her choice, and she did well in school. However, after looking for what to do after college, she faltered, going from workshop to workshop trying to find herself or her "media" Long of the short, she decided to get her teaching certificate along with an Med. She is now applying for jobs on the East coast. You may find this of use, especially with the across the board type of education you have had. Just a thought.

Simply retired teacher, not dead, living the dream. on and on and. . . . on. . . .                                                                                 http://picworkspottery.blogspot.com/


#19 Benzine

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:10 PM

I'm with Pres. I have been teaching for eight years now, and I do thoroughly enjoy it.

I would not be scared off by the current education system. I'm not a fan, of the current movement, but trends change, as quickly as they begin. I've been able to teach, the way that I am comfortable with, regardless of whatever professional development, and such my district has implemented.

If you have a passion for clay, and sharing that passion, there aren't too many districts out there, that will stop you from doing so.
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#20 clay lover

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:43 PM

While I do agree that the pieces of paper, the BA, is very important, and you will have wasted much $$$ and time pursuing it if you don't finish it, I will tell you that many of the highly successful studio potters in the Asheville areas and also on the wider South Eastern scene have been students at Haywood. Many covers of the ceramics magazines are potters who have graduated from there.

PM me if you would like some suggestions of names and places to visit .



Other thought, have you looked at applying to Arrowmont or Penland for a work study or resident position?




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