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Forced air burner plans?


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#21 justanassembler

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:26 PM

I went and played with it after posting. There was Missing bolt from blower to pipe, taped up gas orifice hole up, and got much better output... Then I realized..... Duh..... Dimmer dial........chances are i won't need 100cfm........ Especially. For smallish kiln.
( note to self don't test stuff when tired and late at night) ( so for most part disregard, in my best Gilda Radner voice......"never mind!"

Next question

What temperature do I need killn for gas to self ignite? What temp is red hot? ( yeah I'm trying figure options, before I drop coin for basso, and or other saftey parts)


Don't "invest" in a "dimmer" switch--unless its rated to be used with a load like your blower will produce, you'll burn out a lamp dimmer switch quickly. See how your blower has an intake on the side? Use a flat fridge magnet to cover that, you can adjust how much of the intake is covered to adjust your air output to the burner--simpler and cheaper than a rheostat for the blower. Now take that money you saved, go drop the ~125.00 on a baso valve.

#22 Biglou13

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:28 PM

I think red heat is when a kiln would ignite. ..but if the blower is running it may not ignite. I have used a round section of metal screwed over the air intake for reducing the air.

Get the basso before you invest in a dimmer. It is more expensive but well worth it.
Glad the blower is good.

Marcia

It came with rheostat/dimmer. I trying to figure out how to put together basso. I need hose and fitting,plumbing lesson.

Also found a few different basso devices on Internet, which one do I need?
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#23 justanassembler

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:26 PM


I think red heat is when a kiln would ignite. ..but if the blower is running it may not ignite. I have used a round section of metal screwed over the air intake for reducing the air.

Get the basso before you invest in a dimmer. It is more expensive but well worth it.
Glad the blower is good.

Marcia

It came with rheostat/dimmer. I trying to figure out how to put together basso. I need hose and fitting,plumbing lesson.

Also found a few different basso devices on Internet, which one do I need?


depends on a few things, one of which being the pressure that is feeding your burner(s). More information here: http://www.wardburne...rmocouples.html

#24 Biglou13

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:50 PM



I think red heat is when a kiln would ignite. ..but if the blower is running it may not ignite. I have used a round section of metal screwed over the air intake for reducing the air.

Get the basso before you invest in a dimmer. It is more expensive but well worth it.
Glad the blower is good.

Marcia

It came with rheostat/dimmer. I trying to figure out how to put together basso. I need hose and fitting,plumbing lesson.

Also found a few different basso devices on Internet, which one do I need?


depends on a few things, one of which being the pressure that is feeding your burner(s). More information here: http://www.wardburne...rmocouples.html


I don't know yet. I do know its from propane tank. Size TBD. I've been studying lots of info from ward, grainger, basso, http://gashosesandregulators.com, Neil "dolomite" posts.

What information is necessary in determining pressure?

Sorry for all the questions. The gas stuff is like a foreign language. I'm stepping into unknown territory. I feel like 1st grader I'm trying to teach my self calculus.

I'll post images of components given to me soon.

And thanks for the help.
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#25 neilestrick

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:35 PM

First you need to determine how many BTU's/Hr you'll need for the size and materials of your kiln. Then look at an orifice size chart. The size of the burner orifice will be determined by the type of gas (propane or natural) and pressure available. You have to make sure the pipe size and pressure combination can deliver enough BTU's.
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#26 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:33 PM

I think first you need to decide on propane or natural gas. The burners and orifices need to know!

Here s a discussion between several well known potters from 2004.
http://www.potters.o...ubject74949.htm

Marcia


#27 Biglou13

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:01 AM

Orrifice as given to me : .161 dia ( Via micrometer) According to chart (Ward) Approx. 181,000 btu.

I'm assuming powered is more efficient but not sure if that works into formula.

Not sure on kiln size yet, waiting to pick up more (free ) bricks, and furniture. Can we use 20 cu feet for discussion sake.

Ill need 320,000 to 400,000 btu per hour. For hard brick kiln, 20 cubic feet

Ward site states that power burners are designed to run on low pressures, 14"wc or 1/2 psi.

Also ill be using propane.

Neil, not sure what you're. Asking for when you mentioned pipe size.?
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#28 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:07 AM

Isn't wc for natural gas?
PSI of 1/2 pound is very low for propane. Are you certain Marc said they could be used for propane?
There is a difference between orifices for propane and natural gas. They are not the same thing.

Marcia

#29 neilestrick

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

Orrifice as given to me : .161 dia ( Via micrometer) According to chart (Ward) Approx. 181,000 btu.

I'm assuming powered is more efficient but not sure if that works into formula.

Not sure on kiln size yet, waiting to pick up more (free ) bricks, and furniture. Can we use 20 cu feet for discussion sake.

Ill need 320,000 to 400,000 btu per hour. For hard brick kiln, 20 cubic feet

Ward site states that power burners are designed to run on low pressures, 14"wc or 1/2 psi.

Also ill be using propane.

Neil, not sure what you're. Asking for when you mentioned pipe size.?


The size of the pipe delivering the gas. My gas kiln used about 800,000 btu's. A standar household gas line, 3/4 inch pipe, can't deliver deliver a large enough volume of gas to keep up with that, so I put in a 2" line.

14" WC, while low pressure, is double standard household pressure. If you plan on running natural gas, you'll have to have the pressure increased, which the gas company may or may not be willing to do at a home.
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#30 Lockley

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:12 AM

For the most helpful information on burner systems for Kiln's You will want to contact:

www.wardburner.com


They are very helpful and able to supply safe systems for any size kiln with integrated control.
Dimmer switches need not apply!


Lockley


#31 Biglou13

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:29 PM

Picture of components

Blower with tube ( yeah yeah siding needs some pressure washing, it's a rental....)
Gas orifice ( ok if it looks like hole drilled in some pipe it's because it is) (was designed to be dropped in hole on blower assembly)
And pilot

Notes
Propane
Approx 180000 btu with this orifice. Goal is 240 000 btu.


Needs

Plumbing the gas? (To blower, to propane tanks)
Selecting and assembling (plumbing) and wiring) basso valve, pilot system, (attached to copper tubing)

Ps I have 2 of everything came from retired 2 blower system. I planning on making a single . Also a couple of broke pressure dials.

Lockley. I'm well aware of ward. I've been doing a lot of studying on his site. But am waiting till I'm closer to purchase before contacting him. Plus I don't want to get charged consult fee yet

Attached Files


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#32 Biglou13

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:43 PM

Isn't wc for natural gas?
PSI of 1/2 pound is very low for propane. Are you certain Marc said they could be used for propane?
There is a difference between orifices for propane and natural gas. They are not the same thing.

Marcia


I'm going on info from here (first paragraph last sentence)

Not sure of details behind calculating btu. From orrifice size....

Great link information dense reading

But since forced air is more efficient does btu increase for forced Air???
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#33 neilestrick

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

You cannot (should not) change the size of the orifice of a venturi burner. As the gas goes through, it pulls the air through. If the orifice size is changed, the air to gas mixture gets all messed up. So you just buy whatever size (BTU) venturi you need. They are typically not as powerful as power burners, so you generally need more. Power burners can be made to just about any size (BTU), so they're greatest benefit is that you can usually just use two. Power burner kilns also don't need a tall stack/chimney, since you don't rely on secondary air (draft) to aid in the combustion.
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#34 Biglou13

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:44 PM

You cannot (should not) change the size of the orifice of a venturi burner. As the gas goes through, it pulls the air through. If the orifice size is changed, the air to gas mixture gets all messed up. So you just buy whatever size (BTU) venturi you need. They are typically not as powerful as power burners, so you generally need more. Power burners can be made to just about any size (BTU), so they're greatest benefit is that you can usually just use two. Power burner kilns also don't need a tall stack/chimney, since you don't rely on secondary air (draft) to aid in the combustion.


Thanks for reply.

To clarify question.

I will be building forced air burner. I will be using propane.

The propane orfice burner charts (http://www.hvacredu....acity Chart.pdf). given a btu rating for propane, and natural gas, With natural gas it has different ratings as pressure goes up for given orifice. For propane it has one rating/ orifice size.

For propane does btu increase with more fuel (increasing flow of gas)?
Are these charts propane data based on venturi systems?
Since forced air is more efficient, than Venturi, does using forced air for given orifice increase btu output?

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