Wondering how to do this brushwork

[bigDave 4]

Hola Folks,

 

Been Making bonsai pots for a decade. I make mostly unglazed, stoneware brown, electric fired stuff, I guess youd say utilitarian pots.

 

I have been admiring the very decorative porcelian pots coming out of Japan.

 

So I have been trying brushwork, on bisque. Looks like amateur hour. The best Ive done is in my avatar.

 

 

 

 

Any ideas as to how this work below is accomplished ?

 

And where do you get those amazing brushes that do such a fine line?

[TJR 361]

bigDave;

1.Looks like high fire porcelain.

Piece one is painted over the unfired white glaze with cobalt carb or oxide. Then that area is waxed and some kind of yellow over glaze is applied.

2.Could be fired to stoneware temps, then a yellow enamel is applied at a lower temperature-like cone 012

3. The other one is painted with a manganese type stain of oxide over the unfired white glaze.

Mucho testing to find an opaque glaze that doesn't move.

Notice how I tied in the Spanish there.

4. I use Japanese bamboo brushes for my painting. Also you can buy fine liners called "riggers". They were used for painting rigging on paintings of ships. Don't ask me how I know this.

Check out my gallery post to see some examples of my work. I use this technique all the time.

TJR.

[bciskepottery 952]

To improve my brush work, I've been taking a Chinese Brush Painting class, also called Sumi E. Fortunately, my instructor started out decorating tall vases in Taiwan and China after her schooling with her Masters.

 

I get my brushes from Oriental Art Supply http://www.orientalartsupply.com/ and Blue Heron Arts Store http://www.blueheronarts.com/index.php

 

Elizabeth Priddy has a dvd on using brush work (she was a student of my instructor years ago) http://www.elizabethpriddy.com/

 

Another good source is Linda Arbuckle http://lindaarbuckle.com/

 

It takes time and practice, much practice. And, you need to make sure you've got your chi.

[bigDave 4]

My responses in CAPS

bigDave;

 

HI TOM- THANKS FOR THIS

1.Looks like high fire porcelain.

 

YES

Piece one is painted over the unfired white glaze with cobalt carb or oxide. Then that area is waxed and some kind of yellow over glaze is applied. .Could be fired to stoneware temps, then a yellow enamel is applied at a lower temperature-like cone 012

 

SO BISQUE THEN DIP IN WHITE,(NOT CLEAR /?) THEN OVERGLAZE DECORATIONS ON TOP. WAX THE PANEL AND AREAS WANTING TO RESIST THE YELLOW, DIP IN YELLOW GLAZE ? fIRE TO MATURITY--- THEN AN ENAMEL? NOT SEEING THE SECOND YELLOW DIFFERENCE

 

3. The other one is painted with a manganese type stain of oxide over the unfired white glaze.

 

OKAY SURE SAME AS BEFORE DIFFERNT COLOR OVER WHITE...HUMMM COOL

 

Mucho testing to find an opaque glaze that doesn't move.

SURE...BUENO

 

Notice how I tied in the Spanish there.

 

4. I use Japanese bamboo brushes for my painting. Also you can buy fine liners called "riggers".

OKAY, HAD TO SQUINT ME EYES TO MAKE SURE I READ THAT RIGHT

 

They were used for painting rigging on paintings of ships. Don't ask me how I know this.

Check out my gallery post to see some examples of my work. I use this technique all the time.

 

RIGHT AND YOUR WORK IS AWESOME.

 

tHE LOOK OF THIS IS DIFFERENT, ALMOST LIKE ITS SITTING ON TOP, YA KNOW, ITS DOESNT BLEND INTO THE GLAZE AS YOURS DOES.

I SEE THE FOLKS IN ASIA ON YOU TUBE AND THE DECORATING MEDIUM FLOWS SO NICELY, MINE IS NOT, BUT IM DECORATING ON BISQUE THEN PUTTING A CLEAR OVER.

 

SO WHITE, THEN OVER GLAZE IS THE TICKET EH?

[bigDave 4]

To improve my brush work, I've been taking a Chinese Brush Painting class, also called Sumi E. Fortunately, my instructor started out decorating tall vases in Taiwan and China after her schooling with her Masters.

 

I get my brushes from Oriental Art Supply http://www.orientalartsupply.com/ and Blue Heron Arts Store http://www.blueheronarts.com/index.php

 

Elizabeth Priddy has a dvd on using brush work (she was a student of my instructor years ago) http://www.elizabethpriddy.com/

 

Another good source is Linda Arbuckle http://lindaarbuckle.com/

 

It takes time and practice, much practice. And, you need to make sure you've got your chi.

 

tHANKS-- OFF TO STUDY THOSE SITES

[bigDave 4]

Ordered some brushes,

 

thanks for the tip

[bigDave 4]

Anyone else have some ideas on the subject?

 

TJR, Did you see comment above about your great advice.

 

 

thank you kindly

 

Big d

[Round2potter 3]

Try brushing onto wetware (leatherhard) as painting on bisque sucks up so much moisture from the brush that it can make it hard to get detailed, seamless lines.

[TJR 361]

My responses in CAPS

bigDave;

 

HI TOM- THANKS FOR THIS

1.Looks like high fire porcelain.

 

YES

Piece one is painted over the unfired white glaze with cobalt carb or oxide. Then that area is waxed and some kind of yellow over glaze is applied. .Could be fired to stoneware temps, then a yellow enamel is applied at a lower temperature-like cone 012

 

SO BISQUE THEN DIP IN WHITE,(NOT CLEAR /?) THEN OVERGLAZE DECORATIONS ON TOP. WAX THE PANEL AND AREAS WANTING TO RESIST THE YELLOW, DIP IN YELLOW GLAZE ? fIRE TO MATURITY--- THEN AN ENAMEL? NOT SEEING THE SECOND YELLOW DIFFERENCE

 

3. The other one is painted with a manganese type stain of oxide over the unfired white glaze.

 

OKAY SURE SAME AS BEFORE DIFFERNT COLOR OVER WHITE...HUMMM COOL

 

Mucho testing to find an opaque glaze that doesn't move.

SURE...BUENO

 

Notice how I tied in the Spanish there.

 

4. I use Japanese bamboo brushes for my painting. Also you can buy fine liners called "riggers".

OKAY, HAD TO SQUINT ME EYES TO MAKE SURE I READ THAT RIGHT

 

They were used for painting rigging on paintings of ships. Don't ask me how I know this.

Check out my gallery post to see some examples of my work. I use this technique all the time.

 

RIGHT AND YOUR WORK IS AWESOME.

 

tHE LOOK OF THIS IS DIFFERENT, ALMOST LIKE ITS SITTING ON TOP, YA KNOW, ITS DOESNT BLEND INTO THE GLAZE AS YOURS DOES.

I SEE THE FOLKS IN ASIA ON YOU TUBE AND THE DECORATING MEDIUM FLOWS SO NICELY, MINE IS NOT, BUT IM DECORATING ON BISQUE THEN PUTTING A CLEAR OVER.

 

SO WHITE, THEN OVER GLAZE IS THE TICKET EH?

 

Dave;

The question is;"What is that yellow? It is probably an over-glaze enamel. Vanadium? You have to find a white matt glaze that is hard enough to take your brush strokes. Some glazes powder up when on-glaze painting is applied. It's a bit of trial and error. Feel free to email me @ tomroberts007@gmail.com and I will send you a couple of recipes. What temp. are you firing to?

That was a dangling participle. Sorry. At which temperature are you firing?

TJR.

[Chantay 101]

bciskepottery,

 

thanks for those links. I discovered that Hsi-Mei, the teacher of Elizabeth Priddy, is teaching classes here in VA. I am looking into taking from her. When I started working in clay I would use underglaze to create the blue line work look It doesn't work to well. I am now experimenting with oxides.

[bciskepottery 952]

bciskepottery,

 

thanks for those links. I discovered that Hsi-Mei, the teacher of Elizabeth Priddy, is teaching classes here in VA. I am looking into taking from her. When I started working in clay I would use underglaze to create the blue line work look It doesn't work to well. I am now experimenting with oxides.

 

 

 

Hsi-Mei is teaching at both Liberty Town Arts in Fredericksburg and at Lorton Workhouse Arts in Lorton. She's a good teacher. http://www.hsi-meichinesewatercolor.com/

[TJR 361]

Anyone else have some ideas on the subject?

 

TJR, Did you see comment above about your great advice.

 

 

thank you kindly

 

Big d

 

Dave;

Yes I did, and thank-you for the complement.

TJR.

[Guest JBaymore]

The quality of the brushing medium matters to get the fluid gestural qualities of line you are observing.

 

It is likely not just oxide and water being used. Plus the cobalt (and manganese) likely has been ground (by hand) very finely.

 

Decorating mediums used for this kind of decoration often contain multiple ingredients........ the coloring oxide, a small amount of a flux supplier like a frit, a small amount of a very fine clay (like a ball clay), then suspended in a cariier that is a mixture of a suryp made by boiling seaweed til it disolves, or something like propylene glycol, glycerine, and often also a glue to make it not smudge..... like a rice flour glue or even something like Elmers white glue.

 

It is important to GRIND the mixture very finely. This is done in a porcelain mortar and pestle by hand, or in a grinding machine that automates this process.

 

Use red food coloring to rough out the design on the piece...... and then follow up with the actual painting medium. Red food coloring burns out.

 

best,

 

.......................john

[bigDave 4]

Try brushing onto wetware (leatherhard) as painting on bisque sucks up so much moisture from the brush that it can make it hard to get detailed, seamless lines.

 

 

Round,

Yes agreed... thanks for thinking about this

[bigDave 4]

 

Dave;

The question is;"What is that yellow? It is probably an over-glaze enamel. Vanadium? You have to find a white matt glaze that is hard enough to take your brush strokes. Some glazes powder up when on-glaze painting is applied. It's a bit of trial and error. Feel free to email me @ tomroberts007@gmail.com and I will send you a couple of recipes. What temp. are you firing to?

That was a dangling participle. Sorry. At which temperature are you firing?

TJR.

 

 

White matte...check

 

Cone Five ...laguna frost... http://www.lagunaclay.com/clays/western/wc437.php

 

Trial and error...check

 

email you...most kind

 

Dangling, ...uh ... no apology needed

[bigDave 4]

 

 

Very good info. J-Bay

 

Like the food coloring idea, shall use it

 

Now... Im buying off the shelf amaco, velvets stuff like that...barking up the wrong tree there?

 

Still needa grinda ?

 

 

okay Thanks much fellas...

 

 

a plan is coming together

[Guest JBaymore]

 

 

Very good info. J-Bay

 

Like the food coloring idea, shall use it

 

Now... Im buying off the shelf amaco, velvets stuff like that...barking up the wrong tree there?

 

Still needa grinda ?

 

 

okay Thanks much fellas...

 

 

a plan is coming together

 

 

Japanese brushwork with cobalt decoration like this is often done directly onto the RAW procelain. Much different consistency from bisqued. Doesn't "suck" the brush dry quite so fast. Try both ways and see what you like. Cobalt pigment is so strong...... if you screw up either on the raw clay or the bisque....... you can't get fully "rid" of it.... and it gets trashed anyway... so not much risk to trying on the raw clay.

 

I've visited the the Kondo family in Kyoto (their studio near Kyomizudera) and watched the brushwork being done. The grinding is considered an important and integral part of the process.

 

Also note that cobalt CARBONATE (here in the USA) comes in a finer particle size than cobalt OXIDE. So I'd start there.

 

I never use commercial underglazes... so can't really say. I ALWAYS use commercial overglaze enamels... and grind them too.

 

best,

 

........................john

[yedrow 10]

To improve my brush work, I've been taking a Chinese Brush Painting class, also called Sumi E. Fortunately, my instructor started out decorating tall vases in Taiwan and China after her schooling with her Masters.

 

I get my brushes from Oriental Art Supply http://www.orientalartsupply.com/ and Blue Heron Arts Store http://www.blueheronarts.com/index.php

 

Elizabeth Priddy has a dvd on using brush work (she was a student of my instructor years ago) http://www.elizabethpriddy.com/

 

Another good source is Linda Arbuckle http://lindaarbuckle.com/

 

It takes time and practice, much practice. And, you need to make sure you've got your chi.

 

 

Could you recommend a basic set of brushes that work well on bisque for someone who is just beginning to learn brush strokes?

 

Joel.

[scoobydoozie 7]

I'm surprised no one mentioned china paints.... If the second piece looks like the detail is on top of the glaze, it is probably china paints. They are applied after the glaze is fired and then refired to about cone 016. Check the directions on the china paints if you try it. Here's a website that sells supplies. http://www.marylandchina.com/index.php/china-painting-supplies.html

Try searching on YouTube or Google for China Painting techniques...

 

Good Luck!

[bigDave 4]

I'm surprised no one mentioned china paints.... If the second piece looks like the detail is on top of the glaze, it is probably china paints. They are applied after the glaze is fired and then refired to about cone 016. Check the directions on the china paints if you try it. Here's a website that sells supplies. http://www.marylandc...g-supplies.html

Try searching on YouTube or Google for China Painting techniques...

 

Good Luck!

 

 

I think you just did...Scooby, rank roo

 

The site that has given me the inspiration, is strictly Japanese potters and that is what Im shooting for, look wise. But now clues given at the latest blog post seem to signal china paints, what he call overglaze enamels are being used. Here is a quote then the link

 

Three views of a fantastic overglaze enamel celadon pot with goldfish. The thickness of the enamel makes the goldfish seem almost 3 dimensional. The detailing to the feet is especially nice.

 

http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

[bigDave 4]

And the Pic of the pot just talked about

[bigDave 4]

 

I never use commercial underglazes... so can't really say. I ALWAYS use commercial overglaze enamels... and grind them too.

 

best,

 

........................john

 

Good stuff J-B,

 

So am I understanding ...commercial overglaze enamel= china paint ?

 

that process seems better for me,

 

I have scuttled many green pots with cobalt as you described above... LOL

Currently that is how I am working, just want that other look, like the goldfish ... No one is doing this kind of work in the States...for Bonsai pots.

 

Thanks

 

big D

 

ps, my current style

 

ps.

[Guest JBaymore]

I'm surprised no one mentioned china paints....

 

Overglaze enamels are also known as china paints.

 

best,

 

......................john

[bigDave 4]

I'm surprised no one mentioned china paints....

 

Overglaze enamels are also known as china paints.

 

best,

 

......................john

 

I'm on the job

[metal and mud 6]

I'm surprised no one mentioned china paints.... If the second piece looks like the detail is on top of the glaze, it is probably china paints. They are applied after the glaze is fired and then refired to about cone 016. Check the directions on the china paints if you try it. Here's a website that sells supplies. http://www.marylandc...g-supplies.html

Try searching on YouTube or Google for China Painting techniques...

 

Good Luck!

 

 

I think you just did...Scooby, rank roo

 

The site that has given me the inspiration, is strictly Japanese potters and that is what Im shooting for, look wise. But now clues given at the latest blog post seem to signal china paints, what he call overglaze enamels are being used. Here is a quote then the link

 

Three views of a fantastic overglaze enamel celadon pot with goldfish. The thickness of the enamel makes the goldfish seem almost 3 dimensional. The detailing to the feet is especially nice.

 

 

I have had some fun, and a little success, playing with oxides. I recently applied a nice cobalt oxide to a piece that had a negative texture (bamboo) on a white clay that had been bisque fired to 04. I VERY carefully dabbed on a clear glaze with a sponge, then brushed over it with another layer of clay. Some areas of the cobalt bled into the clear glaze in little blobs; some areas (where the oxide was thinner) didn't. So it seems to me that on my next trial I should wipe off more of the cobalt so it won't bleed into the clear. But I'm reading here that maybe I can apply the cobalt to the dried piece and bisque fire it and then the cobalt won't bleed into the clear glaze. Would that work? Now that I'm writing this I'm thinking that this would work with cobalt brushed on, but not cobalt wiped off, because that would destroy the texture on the piece that was not hardened by bisque firing. Hmm. . .stream of consciousness learning. . .

http://japanesebonsaipots.net/