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#61 OffCenter

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

Since I started this thread, I can hijack it at any time, as I will.
Below is partial list of people that have started threads in this section of the forum. There are fourteen names on the list, I have circled the names of members that have posted NO information on their page. nine of us, out of fourteen, have no real name, pictures, birthdays, locations, etc. Most of these people did not 'introduce themselves' either.
Why should I (Or anyone) be required to post anything they don't want to post?

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We have no right to require you to do anything but the Ceramics Arts software should, at least, require real names.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#62 Chris Campbell

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:30 PM

Asking for Offcenter's comments to be taken off is just silly ... He has the right to his opinion and just because you start a topic doesn't mean you get to edit other's views. He did not say anything even remotely rant-ish.
(Oops ... Was that a rant?)

Anyhow, to continue ...
I use as much of the colored Southern Ice as I can because it is expensive and time consuming to design and produce ... sometimes just too lovely to toss.
I do not recycle clay I get for .33 cents a lb.
You all can do whatever floats your boat ... Like everything else in pottery .... It all depends .......

Also .. Use your name, don't use your name ... As long as you aren't a troll you are welcome.

Chris Campbell
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#63 Artificial Gravity

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:52 PM

AH!, now I see how it goes!

I started a legitimate discussion about pugmills, and their practicality. When posters failed to convince me that they were needed, I said so.
Because I expressed an opinion that OffCenter didn't like, he resorted to an ad hominem attack, which really isn't necessary, the majority of people here can disagree without ranting posts calling others 'invertebrates', and calling their posts 'stupid'.
I mean, these posts came out of the blue, and were really unexpected, and surprising.
I guess these replies will reflect well on the forum, and Ceramic Arts in general, but maybe no-one cares about that.
Besides, how could a person's real name ever be verified anyway? and WHY should people be required to give it?
Did I call anyone names? Did I ridicule anyone's post?
this is really disappointing.

#64 Biglou13

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:25 PM

Hi my name is lou (real name). (Where are my manners) I'm a rank beginner as far pottery goes.
Birthday, gallery pics (a few), location, all present and accounted for. (As of now)

I enjoy the sardonic, vitriolic commentary that go on here and other posts!!! The drama makes for more interesting read. Not to mention learning a lot.
The art world requires thick skin. So does public forums.
I'd much rather honesty than sugar sweet pleasantries, and untruths.

Here's a welcome, and virtual round of drinks to ALLl. (Bourbon for me)
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#65 bigDave

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

AH!, now I see how it goes!




Art,

Great post, keep it up !

Good firing,
big Dave

#66 Chris Campbell

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:17 PM

>Besides, how could a person's real name ever be verified anyway? and WHY should people be required to give it?<

There is nothing on this forum that requires you to use your own name if you choose not to.

I use my real name by choice because I try never to post anything that I would not stand behind. I really don't see any need to stay anonymous ... plus I don't have the attention span it would require to maintain it.

I will say that it is nice to know who you are talking to ... where they are and how long they have been working and what they do. But I still respect the opinions and thoughts of those who stay unknown ... they have their reasons and I respect that.
When this forum started our main goal was to stay respectful ... express opinions, have lively discussions, laugh and disagree ... we did not put any rules in about identifying yourself or never expressing an opposing opinion.
Clay is all about opinions. Put four potters in a room and you have at least eight or ten different opinions.

Chris Campbell
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TRY ...   FAIL ...  LEARN ...  REPEAT


#67 Benzine

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:53 PM

Whoa, whoa, whoa Gentlemen! Let's everyone settle down.


Off Center, just because someone, doesn't have their information posted, doesn't mean they are trying to remain anonymous. If they are like me, they have been meaning to get around to it, but are just lazy....

Artificial Gravity, you need to realize, that like much in life, there are no absolutes in art and ceramics. You say pug mills are worthless, others disagree. It's kind of like with Off Center. There are two things, that man loves, splash pans and Giffin Grips. He goes from thread to thread, defending their use to the bitter end. But not everyone agrees with that stance, and that's OK. Neither side is more right or wrong than the other.
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#68 Benzine

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:08 AM

Also, in regards to reclaiming clay, not being economical, I would disagree. I recycle as much clay as possible in my classroom. I save several bags a year, by doing so. Which means, the next year, I don't have to order as much clay, which means I can use the money to buy other supplies. In a time, where school budgets, especially art budgets, are getting smaller, not larger, I save money any way I can.

I'm not as harsh as Jim's teacher though. I've never threatened, or thought about throwing a student in the pug mill, for wasting clay, and not just because I don't have a pug mill.... However, I have had very angry thoughts about the students, who waste my more "pricey" glazes. Nothing quite like seeing a student coat the inside and outside, of large, ugly vessels, with an expensive glaze, knowing that, they will toss the thing, the first chance they get. Which is why I put certain rules in place, for the glazes.
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#69 Frederik-W

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:22 AM

I like "Offcenter" / Jim's comments in many posts.
Not to say I always agree, but it is good to have opiniated people.

Even if I have a fight with Jim, it will be an honour.
I do not really care that much who he is or what is in his profile, I like his avatar,
i.e. the little boy with the big cock who looks as if he is smoking something.

If we wind up each other every once in a while it is not necessarily a bad thing.


#70 Big Electric Cat

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:19 AM

Woo, take a week or so off from the forum, and look what happens!
I like Jim as well, sometimes his view is just what is needed to cut through the crap But I think this time he has gone a bit far.

This was a pretty good discussion about mills and reclaiming, and now it is a lecture to someone just trying to express an idea.

I will at least apologize to Artificial Gravity for the rough treatment, as it appears no other long time veterans will step up.
Most people here are very helpful, and maybe if you stick around, you can benefit, and help others as well.

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#71 OffCenter

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:45 AM

It's kind of like with Off Center. There are two things, that man loves, splash pans and Giffin Grips. He goes from thread to thread, defending their use to the bitter end.


HOLY CRAP Benzine! You just made me spit coffee on my keyboard! For those of you who don't know, I despise splash pans and Griffin Grips.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#72 OffCenter

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:51 AM

I like Jim as well, sometimes his view is just what is needed to cut through the crap But I think this time he has gone a bit far.


Maybe you're right. Some guy's grand pronouncement while hiding behind anonymity bugged me and I over reacted. I apologize for calling him/her/it an invertebrate and will remove the post.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#73 Benzine

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:28 AM


It's kind of like with Off Center. There are two things, that man loves, splash pans and Giffin Grips. He goes from thread to thread, defending their use to the bitter end.


HOLY CRAP Benzine! You just made me spit coffee on my keyboard! For those of you who don't know, I despise splash pans and Griffin Grips.

Jim


Jim, I thought since, it is your comments, that tend to make people spit their coffee on their keyboard, I'd mix things up a bit.
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#74 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:58 AM

I am glad Jim will settle down. I too also like to know who I am taking with on the forum but I realize many prefer anonymity. When I hope to meet people from the forum at meetings like NCECA...and Spring, for instance, said our pictures are small for her to recognize us, at least some of us had pictures and name tags to read. I wouldn't recognize people with names like "ZAP!" on their name tags. Just sayin'.
Marcia

#75 Benzine

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:11 AM

This thread has reminded me of a question I had, based on the pug mills I've used. In my first classroom, our pug mill was a Blue Bird de-airing model, not sure which exactly. It a several inch, by several inch hopper, with the lever, to push the clay down. It wasn't sealed, so it had to be cleaned after every use, and worked pretty slow. Because of this, I seldom used it, and just had the students reclaim by hand.

At my second job, the room had an older pug mill, a Walker I believe. It has a huuuuuge hopper, a couple feet each direction. The students would just through all the scrap clay in there, it held a lot. Once it was full, I'd turn it on, and let it go to work. It had a cap for the extruding end, and a lid for the hopper. I only had to clean it once a year.

I haven't seen any large hoppers on the more current models. So my question is, why is that? Is it a safety issue? They don't want people hurting themselves on the dangerous clay pugger?...........or having teachers, throw wasteful students in there.....
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#76 Pres

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:25 AM

Also, in regards to reclaiming clay, not being economical, I would disagree. I recycle as much clay as possible in my classroom. I save several bags a year, by doing so. Which means, the next year, I don't have to order as much clay, which means I can use the money to buy other supplies. In a time, where school budgets, especially art budgets, are getting smaller, not larger, I save money any way I can.

I'm not as harsh as Jim's teacher though. I've never threatened, or thought about throwing a student in the pug mill, for wasting clay, and not just because I don't have a pug mill.... However, I have had very angry thoughts about the students, who waste my more "pricey" glazes. Nothing quite like seeing a student coat the inside and outside, of large, ugly vessels, with an expensive glaze, knowing that, they will toss the thing, the first chance they get. Which is why I put certain rules in place, for the glazes.


Oh yes, I'll high jack the strand on the glaze comment! I also hate to see my glazes wasted with large two gallon containers lifted off the shelf by the lids thus spilling the entire contents or the student that uses the expensive red glaze inside and out on a pot just to discover when it was fire it was FUBAR ugly!

Oh well, on with the thread. I also recycled/pugged to save money. School budgets have gotten tighter, and when they cut our budgets by 10% for several years. . . we had to cut corners, and recycling was one of those corners even though as a teacher you worked harder it was worth it to stay ahead of administrative penny pinching.

Simply retired teacher, not dead, living the dream. on and on and. . . . on. . . .                                                                                 http://picworkspottery.blogspot.com/


#77 JBaymore

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:29 AM


It's kind of like with Off Center. There are two things, that man loves, splash pans and Giffin Grips. He goes from thread to thread, defending their use to the bitter end.


HOLY CRAP Benzine! You just made me spit coffee on my keyboard! For those of you who don't know, I despise splash pans and Griffin Grips.

Jim


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#78 OffCenter

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:31 AM

This thread has reminded me of a question I had, based on the pug mills I've used. In my first classroom, our pug mill was a Blue Bird de-airing model, not sure which exactly. It a several inch, by several inch hopper, with the lever, to push the clay down. It wasn't sealed, so it had to be cleaned after every use, and worked pretty slow. Because of this, I seldom used it, and just had the students reclaim by hand.

At my second job, the room had an older pug mill, a Walker I believe. It has a huuuuuge hopper, a couple feet each direction. The students would just through all the scrap clay in there, it held a lot. Once it was full, I'd turn it on, and let it go to work. It had a cap for the extruding end, and a lid for the hopper. I only had to clean it once a year.

I haven't seen any large hoppers on the more current models. So my question is, why is that? Is it a safety issue? They don't want people hurting themselves on the dangerous clay pugger?...........or having teachers, throw wasteful students in there.....


The Walker with the big hopper and all safety things removed (if they were ever any on it) was the kind my college instructor used to pug students who threw away clay. The first story he ever told to new students was that when he was in school a grad student went into the pottery studio alone late at night to pug up some clay and her long hair got caught in the Walker and she was pulled in and created quite a mess on the studio floor. Most of us actually believed the story at least for a while. It put the fear of Walker in us which was that pugmill's best safety device. The Walker was a great pugmill that was also a mixer but was ridiculously dangerous. Even with an off bar at knee level, warning stickers, and careful instruction about the danger, I'd still question its use in a school setting.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#79 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:04 PM

I had a stainless Walker in my classroom for 25 years.I had a sign on it "JAWS III". Those blades were sharp. But we did use it for mixing and pugging clay. I never used pre-mixed clay for my classes in Montana. We eventually had a Soldner mixer.

Marcia

#80 Pres

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

I had a stainless Walker in my classroom for 25 years.I had a sign on it "JAWS III". Those blades were sharp. But we did use it for mixing and pugging clay. I never used pre-mixed clay for my classes in Montana. We eventually had a Soldner mixer.

Marcia




I also had a Walker in college and at our HS. I never removed any of the safety devices from ours and kept them in working order. In college, a different story, the kick bar was off, as was no over top guard to keep you from reaching too deep. Yes, we believed the story about the kid that tripped and lost all his fingers but the thumb and pointer also, but then these urban legends are there for a reason, I guess.

Simply retired teacher, not dead, living the dream. on and on and. . . . on. . . .                                                                                 http://picworkspottery.blogspot.com/





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