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#41 Idaho Potter

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:07 PM

Jim, I'm sorry you are having problems using your Peter Pugger. Do you think it's because you use porcelain?

I've had mine for almost ten years, and in my case it was a physical need. I'm old. I get cranky when I hurt. Students don't like cranky teachers so much. Admittedly I don't use it as much as I did when I bought it, but the problem is with me, not the machine. I've quit teaching due to health problems (like my body falling apart) so now I can be as cranky and I want or need to be.

I bought the darn thing to keep me going, and I hope to be using it for another ten years (that's how far I'm willing to look into the future)--all times and calendars are adjusted as need be.

Shirley

#42 OffCenter

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:03 PM

Jim, I'm sorry you are having problems using your Peter Pugger. Do you think it's because you use porcelain?

I've had mine for almost ten years, and in my case it was a physical need. I'm old. I get cranky when I hurt. Students don't like cranky teachers so much. Admittedly I don't use it as much as I did when I bought it, but the problem is with me, not the machine. I've quit teaching due to health problems (like my body falling apart) so now I can be as cranky and I want or need to be.

I bought the darn thing to keep me going, and I hope to be using it for another ten years (that's how far I'm willing to look into the future)--all times and calendars are adjusted as need be.

Shirley


Shirley... Getting old is a ###### isn't it? Sometimes I think every bone in my body is aching at the same time! But I enjoy self-medicating. The whole pugmill thing boggles my mind. I am real picky about the condition of the clay I use and I must like it a lot harder than others here because I've never opened a bag of commercial clay that wasn't way too wet to use yet I see post here about new clay being too hard. It's not just porcelain (but porcelain is the worse). I use B-Mix Woodfire for my cone 13 work, cone 5 B-Mix for my cone 6 work, Lizella red for cone 3 and 6 work, Southern Ice for cone 10 and Frost for cone 6. Plus I experiment with other clays and use clay I dig on my property. All of it is ruined when pugged. I've tried adding beer to help it age and adding a little ball clay thinking that I may be losing some of the finer particles while throwing. I've got several clays that have been aging almost a year since pugging and they are only a little improved and still not good enough for me. The two porcelains that have aged almost a year are just as bad now as when they came out of the pugmill. So, I simply don't know why my Peter Pugger ruins my clay but like I posted somewhere else, I've adjusted to it. Instead of working out every morning, I recondition clay by hand. That way I get a great workout and perfect clay. I'll use my pugmill to make bricks.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#43 OffCenter

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:05 PM

Golly Gee! I guess you can't use the word b i t c h here without the software subing pound signs!: "Shirley... Getting old is a ###### isn't it? Sometimes I think every..."
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#44 Benzine

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:10 PM

"Students don't like cranky teachers so much"

What a coincidence, I don't like cranky students.....


And Jim, don't let the machines censor you. That's the first step in their takeover of mankind. First it's that, then the next thing you know, we're in The Matrix.
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#45 Idaho Potter

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:32 PM

Okay you guys! I love it when Jim and TJR get going and NOW we have Benzine? Thanks for the fun, at my age laughter makes for an exciting day. I shall chuckle my way through dinner. Heck with it, I'm gonna drink.

Shirley

#46 Artificial Gravity

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:25 PM



In fact, it doesn't even make sense to reclaim clay, by ANY method.


idem.


That's a stupid thing to say. Just because it may not make sense for some dishmaker to reclaim clay doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for someone else to reclaim clay.

Jim


Economically, it does not make sense to reclaim clay by ANY method.
I have done my own figuring, as have others that are better at the ceramics game than me.

I don't think it's a stupid thing to say, at all.

#47 Frederik-W

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:59 AM

We took the clay from the earth, so don't be afraid to give some back!


I agree. "Recycling" clay is not the same as recycling consumer waste in order to save the environment.
If it does not pay do not do it.


#48 OffCenter

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:32 AM




In fact, it doesn't even make sense to reclaim clay, by ANY method.


idem.


That's a stupid thing to say. Just because it may not make sense for some dishmaker to reclaim clay doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for someone else to reclaim clay.

Jim


Economically, it does not make sense to reclaim clay by ANY method.
I have done my own figuring, as have others that are better at the ceramics game than me.

I don't think it's a stupid thing to say, at all.


If you had taken the time to read the early posts to this thread, you might possibly understand why I called your silly grand proclamation stupid. Whether it makes sense or not to reclaim clay depends on the kind of ceramic work you do. A production potter turning out the same pots he/she has been producing for the past decade has very little reclaiming to (if he/she's any good) and it may be a better use of their time to toss what little scrap clay they have but try to wrap your head around the fact that some of us see very little difference between being a production potter and working in a factory and are not interested in making the same pots over and over and over. Since you can't be bothered to read previous posts to a thread before making your know-it-all grand proclamation I'll copy post #12 here:

It depends on your needs. As long as clay is relatively cheap, a production potter's time is probably better spent making more dishes than reprocessing clay. Of course, a lot of production potters make their own clay and need pug mills for that. Back when I was a production potter in Denver we would have laughed at any potter who bought his/her clay in 25 lb bags. For potters more interested in creating new forms than making more dishes you may use more expensive clays and, most importantly, You many have to throw twenty 20lb bowls to get the new shape you're looking for, meaning that 19 of those bowls or 380 lbs of clay needs to be either tossed or reworked. I bought a Peter Pugger to reprocess my clay but was so disappointed in what it does to the clay (especially porcelain) that I don't use it except to process clay I dig and clay to make bricks. My solution was that I stopped exercising in the mornings and substituted reprocessing clay by hand for an hour or so every day. My clay is perfect and I get a great workout.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#49 neilestrick

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:51 AM

Now it's getting interesting!
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#50 OffCenter

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:01 AM


We took the clay from the earth, so don't be afraid to give some back!


I agree. "Recycling" clay is not the same as recycling consumer waste in order to save the environment.
If it does not pay do not do it.


I imagine Chris has to give back a lot of her expensive porcelain to the earth because she colors it. A long time ago I worked in colored clay and hated throwing away the scraps from big cakes of clay that I cut into slabs. I had a machinist make me a machine that used the thinnest strand of piano wire to cut the colored porcelain that I could laminate on both sides of a slab of recycled colored clay, which allowed me to even recycle colored porcelain.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#51 neilestrick

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:14 AM

For newbies, I think recycling is an important part of their education. You learn a lot about the clay going through that process.
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#52 Chris Campbell

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:44 AM

>I imagine Chris has to give back a lot of her expensive porcelain to the earth because she colors it. A long time ago I worked in colored clay and hated throwing away the scraps from big cakes of clay that I cut into slabs. I had a machinist make me a machine that used the thinnest strand of piano wire to cut the colored porcelain that I could laminate on both sides of a slab of recycled colored clay, which allowed me to even recycle colored porcelain.>

I actually give back almost none of my colored clay ... As you say, it is way too expensive to throw out. The cost of the clay, shipping, colorants, labor ... No way!
What do I do with it? I make cutting wire ends for my workshop students since we make our own sharper wires, I make colored stones, I make chopstick holders ... Lots of small stuff. Once the clay gets too grey/brown, I let it dry out and use it as the base for black slip.

Now, my cheap clay is a totally different story. I have no problem giving it back to the earth!
I sold my pugger eighteen years ago and bought my commercial Hobart mixer which has been a thousand times more useful to a clay colorer and slip maker.

Chris Campbell
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TRY ...   FAIL ...  LEARN ...  REPEAT


#53 Chris Campbell

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:59 AM

For newbies, I think recycling is an important part of their education. You learn a lot about the clay going through that process.


I would agree only to the point that you can learn clay by throwing it, mash it down and let it dry a bit then throw it again etc. ... but I would never try to promote the idea that it was a way to save money or decrease the wear and tear on your body.

Chris Campbell
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https://www.facebook...88317932?ref=hl

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#54 OffCenter

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:22 AM

>I imagine Chris has to give back a lot of her expensive porcelain to the earth because she colors it. A long time ago I worked in colored clay and hated throwing away the scraps from big cakes of clay that I cut into slabs. I had a machinist make me a machine that used the thinnest strand of piano wire to cut the colored porcelain that I could laminate on both sides of a slab of recycled colored clay, which allowed me to even recycle colored porcelain.>

I actually give back almost none of my colored clay ... As you say, it is way too expensive to throw out. The cost of the clay, shipping, colorants, labor ... No way!
What do I do with it? I make cutting wire ends for my workshop students since we make our own sharper wires, I make colored stones, I make chopstick holders ... Lots of small stuff. Once the clay gets too grey/brown, I let it dry out and use it as the base for black slip.

Now, my cheap clay is a totally different story. I have no problem giving it back to the earth!
I sold my pugger eighteen years ago and bought my commercial Hobart mixer which has been a thousand times more useful to a clay colorer and slip maker.


Very interesting.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#55 swells

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:22 AM

I lust after a pugger, not only for recycled clay, but as I am getting older I see that it is easier on the body to put clay through a pug mill rather than wedge it all. It is good exercise, but when speaking with those that have a pug mill, I hear how much easier it is on their bodies, I have also spoken to two women who both brought up how hard being a potter is on their body, one is no longer working in clay because of that. The other has a pug mill.

#56 OffCenter

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:34 AM

but I would never try to promote the idea that it was a way to save money or decrease the wear and tear on your body.


But you just said you recycle your clay because it is too expensive to throw away. As I keep repeating, it depends on how you work with clay. I though you'd be one of the few art potters who would not recycle because you use colored clay but you do recycle it to save money. For some it is worth the effort for some it isn't. I would think that for a student recycling would be important because unless they have a lousy teacher, they are going to throw a lot of clay and the vast majority of those pieces are not going to be worth keeping. My old pottery instructor would have pugged any student he saw throwing clay away. (BTW, we made it from scratch--because only dilettantes bought those cute little 25 lb bags of clay-- and it was dirt cheap.)

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#57 Artificial Gravity

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

I've reported OffCenter's rant post above, and ask that it be removed in the interest of a more civilized discussion.
Thank you.

#58 neilestrick

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

Not to defend the rant, but it would be nice to know who you are, AG. The ceramics community is small, so it's nice to meet new folks. I've met a lot of great people here, some of whom live near me and I've actually had the chance to meet in person.
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#59 Artificial Gravity

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:16 PM

Since I started this thread, I can hijack it at any time, as I will.
Below is partial list of people that have started threads in this section of the forum. There are fourteen names on the list, I have circled the names of members that have posted NO information on their page. nine of us, out of fourteen, have no real name, pictures, birthdays, locations, etc. Most of these people did not 'introduce themselves' either.
Why should I (Or anyone) be required to post anything they don't want to post?

Posted Image

#60 OffCenter

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:17 PM

I've reported OffCenter's rant post above, and ask that it be removed in the interest of a more civilized discussion.
Thank you.


Which one?

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.




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