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#21 Nelly

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:12 PM

Hi Nelly,

I share your compulsion for form and I have very much enjoyed reading through this thread.

The responses by Chris Campbell and OffCenter really resonate with me. Chris' sentiment that, "it takes as long as it takes," is the stance I've taken in my own work, as well as in my instruction of other potters. I find this particularly true when trimming and while babying handles and spouts. While I generally strive for forms that follow "the rules," the idea that there is a set-in-stone checklist of qualities for a form to embody in order to be considered proper is not something I subscribe to. OffCenter's comment about making dishes versus making anyhting else speaks to this.

For me what is most important in a piece of pottery, whether functional, decorative or sculptural, whether a traditional shape or not, is that the maker's intention is achieved. The majority of my work is in making dishes. I generally don't sit down at the wheel with an intention to make wonky, aesymetrical forms. If I make a bowl that is unbalanced, off-center, asymmetrical, etc it reads as a mistake. It is rare that I let these pots make it as far as the kiln, but the ones that do just seem "off." For anyone with a basic knowledge of the ceramic process, upon holding a piece like this, they can tell it's not exactly what I was going for.

In line with some of the comments made throughout the thread, I do think a lot of pots are unsuccessful. It's frustrating for me to check out other potters' work at shows, shops, galleries, wherever, and know as soon as I pick a piece up, that the pot does not truly reflect the intention of the maker. The heavy bottom, the wonky lip, the sloppy handle attachment are the usual giveaways, but the real issue is a disconnect between intended aesthetic and achieved results. Some of the pieces which speak most to me are unbalanced, asymmetrical, etc, but upon inspection of these pieces, it becomes clear that the "broken rules" were done so with clear intention.

In an artform where final results all begin simply as balls of mud, the only rule I really subscribe to is to strive for pots with which I feel I've acheived my vision and intention.

So Nelly, keep being compulsive; I will too.


Dear Chris,

What becomes interesting for me at these shows is how drawn people are to glaze. Color. It is that part of the vessel that they see the clearest. I am not sure but they could be asking themselves, will this fit into my decor. They do not recognize or really feel the energy of the piece. I am compulsive but so be it. There was a time where all I was concerned with was how many pots I could make in a short period of time. Now I can just putter. If I don't like the piece it goes into the scrap bin and I begin again. But this is my luxury as a hobbiest at this point. It is all about me learning as well.

Thank you for your response.

Nelly

#22 Chris Campbell

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:48 PM

I am posting an image of the work of Jason Biggs, from whom I learned the "it takes as long as it takes" lesson ...

http://jasonbriggs.com

I watched him demo at the Alabama Clay Conference and he began by saying it would be very boring because he can stare at his pieces for an hour just deciding what needs to happen next. Everything is done by intention and he does not leave the surface area until it looks exactly the way he wants it to look. An hour, a week ... whatever. The surface is not done until it looks exactly the way he wants it to. ( By the way, his intention is to make people nervous about touching the piece, to make them wonder what it is. They always look vaguely creepy and yes, that is his hair ... each one placed with a tweezer in a very precise little hole! )

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#23 Nelly

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:35 PM

I am posting an image of the work of Jason Biggs, from whom I learned the "it takes as long as it takes" lesson ...

http://jasonbriggs.com

I watched him demo at the Alabama Clay Conference and he began by saying it would be very boring because he can stare at his pieces for an hour just deciding what needs to happen next. Everything is done by intention and he does not leave the surface area until it looks exactly the way he wants it to look. An hour, a week ... whatever. The surface is not done until it looks exactly the way he wants it to. ( By the way, his intention is to make people nervous about touching the piece, to make them wonder what it is. They always look vaguely creepy and yes, that is his hair ... each one placed with a tweezer in a very precise little hole! )


Dear Chris,

Wow!!! That is amazing work. While I am not sure I jive with the subject matter, I can truly appreciate the incredible amount of detail in each piece. Ammmmazing.

I remember once, being at the Gardiner Museum in Toronto and seeing a bowl by Lucie Rie. It was a simple piece with line or stripes around the circumference. My boyfriend who was a water colorist also looked at the piece. I remember saying, I wonder if she just put these colors on randomly and came up with this great scheme that worked well together. He said in no uncertain terms "every stroke she painted on that bowl was with volition and intention, she had a vision and she worked to accomplish it." Know he was a professional artist. Thus, for him, he saw his own work and the amount he was able to charge as a function of how many years it took him to accomplish his skill. It was only then I realized that art for those who are truly great does have intentionality. There is no just throw on some color or make some form and hope for the best. A really great artist thinks and ponders.

Thank you Chris for showing me this incredible work. Very, very bold work but it truly shows the skill this artist has and their command of the material.

Nelly

#24 OffCenter

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:52 PM

I am posting an image of the work of Jason Biggs, from whom I learned the "it takes as long as it takes" lesson ...

http://jasonbriggs.com

I watched him demo at the Alabama Clay Conference and he began by saying it would be very boring because he can stare at his pieces for an hour just deciding what needs to happen next. Everything is done by intention and he does not leave the surface area until it looks exactly the way he wants it to look. An hour, a week ... whatever. The surface is not done until it looks exactly the way he wants it to. ( By the way, his intention is to make people nervous about touching the piece, to make them wonder what it is. They always look vaguely creepy and yes, that is his hair ... each one placed with a tweezer in a very precise little hole! )


Holy crap! that's ugly! (Not that there's anything wrong with that if that's what you're after.)

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#25 OffCenter

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:58 PM

It was only then I realized that art for those who are truly great does have intentionality. There is no just throw on some color or make some form and hope for the best. A really great artist thinks and ponders.


Like all generalizations this one isn't true. (But does that include the one I just made, too? Oh ########! I've confused myself again!)

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#26 Claypple

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:07 PM

Looks like Jason Biggs is a mentally sick person. Period. There is no justification for what he is making.
It is not even an anti-art! It is equal to brining some intestines or feces to the museum and say: "I envision something in it!".
I do not even appreciate his skill and patience, as I would not in somebody who is methodically puts graffito on the walls.

Do not confuse Obsessive Compulsive disorder with Schizophrenia.

#27 OffCenter

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

Looks like Jason Biggs is a mentally sick person. Period. There is no justification for what he is making.
It is not even an anti-art! It is equal to brining some intestines or feces to the museum and say: "I envision something in it!".
I do not even appreciate his skill and patience, as I would not in somebody who is methodically puts graffito on the walls.

Do not confuse Obsessive Compulsive disorder with Schizophrenia.


Oh no! I'm going to have to disagree with one of my favorite posters, Claypple. I probably hate Bigg's work (at least the example above) as much as you do (After all, I'm the one who posted "Holy Crap! That's ugly" before your post.) but you need at least an "IMHO" in front of "There is no justification..." because, IMHO, there is justification for it simply because he has the right (I mean artistic, not legal) to present anything he wants as his artistic creation. I'm not real happy about Ai Weiwei dropping a Han Dynasty urn and calling it art even if it was an ugly urn, but if I said there is no justification for him doing that, I'd be just as wrong as the late 19th Century art critics who said there was no justification for Cezanne painting the way he did.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#28 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:29 PM

I find Jason Briggs work to be really amazing. He was the tech assistant when I taught a workshop at the Appalachian Center for Crafts about 14 years ago. He was working in this direction back then. I think he is a meticulous craftsman. And I think his imagery is a humorous criticism of human anatomy. He is a really nice guy too.

Marcia

#29 Nelly

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

I find Jason Briggs work to be really amazing. He was the tech assistant when I taught a workshop at the Appalachian Center for Crafts about 14 years ago. He was working in this direction back then. I think he is a meticulous craftsman. And I think his imagery is a humorous criticism of human anatomy. He is a really nice guy too.

Marcia


Dear All,

I couldn't really figure out what any of his pieces meant or were intended to present. I just saw the lines of the piece and the lengths he went to in the creation of his work. I honestly could not really see what they were to mean?? Well maybe the one with the jacket done up at the back I understood as being some sort of feeling of imprisonment but I was lost with the rest of the images. Or maybe, just maybe I didn't want to go any deeper in my analysis. I just saw the soft edges juxtaposed against the courseness and the detail.

Nelly

#30 Claypple

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:00 PM


Do not confuse Obsessive Compulsive disorder with Schizophrenia.


if I said there is no justification for him doing that, I'd be just as wrong as the late 19th Century art critics who said there was no justification for Cezanne painting the way he did.

Jim


Many impressionists painted the way they did for many reasons: unusual imagination, defects in the vision, recreational use of ... whatever they were taking. Many had some mental problems. Their art justified their flaws. Their art will be here forever.

Brigg's art will be here forever too! Simply because it is well done mechanically, it is outstanding, unforgettable.
Whatever caused his imagination to go that sick, I cannot and shouldn't guess. However, what he created does not justify the cause.

Although ... I looked at it again, and you know, I see hate in his art. Yes, hate! So, if he, been a nice man (as Marcia said about him), wants to tell people in a nice manner how disgusting the mankind is, than I can see the justification of ... whatever his problem is.

Brigg even admitted this by himself; he said what influences his art is "an ugly wrinkle, fat neck, a pimple". Not a beauty of the human's body, not a deepness of the human soul, but the ugly inside of it.

#31 Natania

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:26 AM



Do not confuse Obsessive Compulsive disorder with Schizophrenia.


if I said there is no justification for him doing that, I'd be just as wrong as the late 19th Century art critics who said there was no justification for Cezanne painting the way he did.

Jim


Many impressionists painted the way they did for many reasons: unusual imagination, defects in the vision, recreational use of ... whatever they were taking. Many had some mental problems. Their art justified their flaws. Their art will be here forever.

Brigg's art will be here forever too! Simply because it is well done mechanically, it is outstanding, unforgettable.
Whatever caused his imagination to go that sick, I cannot and shouldn't guess. However, what he created does not justify the cause.

Although ... I looked at it again, and you know, I see hate in his art. Yes, hate! So, if he, been a nice man (as Marcia said about him), wants to tell people in a nice manner how disgusting the mankind is, than I can see the justification of ... whatever his problem is.

Brigg even admitted this by himself; he said what influences his art is "an ugly wrinkle, fat neck, a pimple". Not a beauty of the human's body, not a deepness of the human soul, but the ugly inside of it.




Maybe he sees the beautiful in the ugly?

#32 clay lover

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:53 AM

I was sad to read in his bio that he has a 'real baby now'. disturbing thoughs go through my head on that one.

#33 OffCenter

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:10 AM



Do not confuse Obsessive Compulsive disorder with Schizophrenia.


if I said there is no justification for him doing that, I'd be just as wrong as the late 19th Century art critics who said there was no justification for Cezanne painting the way he did.

Jim


Many impressionists painted the way they did for many reasons: unusual imagination, defects in the vision, recreational use of ... whatever they were taking. Many had some mental problems. Their art justified their flaws. Their art will be here forever.

Brigg's art will be here forever too! Simply because it is well done mechanically, it is outstanding, unforgettable.
Whatever caused his imagination to go that sick, I cannot and shouldn't guess. However, what he created does not justify the cause.

Although ... I looked at it again, and you know, I see hate in his art. Yes, hate! So, if he, been a nice man (as Marcia said about him), wants to tell people in a nice manner how disgusting the mankind is, than I can see the justification of ... whatever his problem is.

Brigg even admitted this by himself; he said what influences his art is "an ugly wrinkle, fat neck, a pimple". Not a beauty of the human's body, not a deepness of the human soul, but the ugly inside of it.


All our verbage basically gets down to this. I don't like his work but want him to keep creating whatever he desires to create and call his art. You don't like his work and attack him personally and deny his right to create that work. That is far more disturbing and sicker than anything he has ever made.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#34 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:22 AM

Finding the beauty in the flaws of humanity is not a sick behavior.In fact, I think it is the opposite. Not every being is physically beautiful.
What about Guernica? That was not meant to be beautiful but an acknowledgement of inhumanity to mankind. It has its own museum. I saw it at the Met in NY when it was in exile. I saw it again in Madrid while a large group of Japanese tourists sat viewing it. It was interesting to me to think of Guernica happening in the early years of the European conflict that grew into WWII and then sitting with a group from Japan where the atomic bomb ended WWII.
I have only seen art work dealing with the A bomb and that is Richard Notkin's Bikini Atoll tile piece or some of his teapots.. I think his work is striking. He also mentored Jason Briggs while he was at ACC.
The world is not a perfect place and humanity certainly has flaws.
Marcia

#35 JBaymore

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:47 AM

Finding the beauty in the flaws of humanity is not a sick behavior.In fact, I think it is the opposite. Not every being is physically beautiful.
What about Guernica? That was not meant to be beautiful but an acknowledgement of inhumanity to mankind. It has its own museum. I saw it at the Met in NY when it was in exile. I saw it again in Madrid while a large group of Japanese tourists sat viewing it. It was interesting to me to think of Guernica happening in the early years of the European conflict that grew into WWII and then sitting with a group from Japan where the atomic bomb ended WWII.
I have only seen art work dealing with the A bomb and that is Richard Notkin's Bikini Atoll tile piece or some of his teapots.. I think his work is striking. He also mentored Jason Briggs while he was at ACC.
The world is not a perfect place and humanity certainly has flaws.
Marcia


Well said, Marcia.

best,

......................john
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Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

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#36 Chris Campbell

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:15 AM

Looks like Jason Biggs is a mentally sick person. Period. There is no justification for what he is making.
It is not even an anti-art! It is equal to brining some intestines or feces to the museum and say: "I envision something in it!".
I do not even appreciate his skill and patience, as I would not in somebody who is methodically puts graffito on the walls.

Do not confuse Obsessive Compulsive disorder with Schizophrenia.


An artist should pay close attention to the things that provoke the strongest reactions in them, whether they are joy or horror.
It is interesting that you respond so personally and so deeply to art that is meant to involve you rather than just entertain you. It is meant to make you look at it, feel and think.
If you look closely at all of his work nothing is as it seems. They are vaguely organic, somewhat off putting ... but there is nothing really there that you should label 'sick' as forcefully as you did. When his work is shown in museums, shows and galleries people do not run for the doors ... often you see the initial recoil followed by quiet smiles ... people stop and stare and try to figure out what it is. You can usually count on conversation with the person next to you. I have not yet wanted to touch one, but I admire the vision and the skill.

And yes, he himself is a lovely person with a great sense of humor ... an unassuming quiet person who no doubt is a great father. I think it is sad that you judge the man so harshly because you do not like his art.
His work is also featured on the main page for next year's NCECA conference ... this piece is perhaps not as off putting as some others!Posted Image
http://nceca.net/sta...amproposals.php

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#37 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:17 AM

An artist should pay close attention to the things that provoke the strongest reactions in them, whether they are joy or horror.
It is interesting that you respond so personally and so deeply to art that is meant to involve you rather than just entertain you. It is meant to make you look at it, feel and think.





I think this is the quote of the day. I would like to go further and say that Not only should an artist pay close attention to things that provoke strong emotions- but that everyone should. There is always a deeper story to "why" we feel the way we do. Although I personally think it's gross looking- the artist succeeded in the purest of forms. He doesn't make ugly things to get people to appreciate the beauty in them (my interpretation... may not be the case) He seems to make ugly things to force people to look at and accept them as they are. I am sure he knows his work is shocking, it appears that he succeeded in doing so. He probably understands that the majority of people don't get inspired by a pimple. So he probably understands that people are going to find it gross.


Furthermore after looking at that piece- we should ask "why do we find it gross" or "why does it make me feel strong negative/dark emotions" Or "why do I giggle when I see it" , "what makes that implied body part grosser than a beautiful one" etc (just to name a variety of questions we could ask ourselves about it. ) Could he be disturbed/ in pain? Or have we checked to see if we are for perceiving it that way? (not making an opinion here... just asking thought provoking questions)
Could the piece be a method of digging up things that which we buried? Could it be a mirror to our darkness or our secrets?
As an artist I agree with Jim that art should not be stifled unless harming of another human being is involved.
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#38 Claypple

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:14 PM

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#39 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:21 PM



Is there anyone else out there with this slightly neurotic effort for perfection in the overall weight of the form and shape.


Not me, I like HEAVY, things that are light weight especially for their size and expected materials feel "cheap" to me. A large very thin walled hollow bronze sculpture that is light feels very cheap to me, like plastic, so everything I've ever made is always substantial and heavy, maybe it's a man thing who knows!


More likely than being a "man thing" it is that most posters to this thread are thinking pots and you're thinking sculpture.

Jim





I am just a little freaked out why my name is being used on a quote that I didn't make.... (twice in this thread) ??
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#40 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:44 AM

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Is that a camera lense to his head? Can't make out what it is.
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