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derp

Education is enough?

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derp    0

I want to discuss about the modern education and our young generation. It has been seen that our young generation even though has best of the best educational facilities and technology but still they are not enough educated as it suppose to be. They are tend to be the spoiler or bratz rather then just being a positive persons. Do they not have any good role model or the teachers are focusing science and technology too much and not focusing upon the moral education, what do you think?

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TJR    359

Derp;

I love these kind of questions! The youth of today are just as good and bad as we were and in generations past. It is up to parents and teachers and others to help form the youth into the wonderful human beings that they can be. There are sometimes mitigating circumstances that stall students from developing, like the realization that they are not loved or valued by their parents.Then they become emotionally disturbed. If the mother drank alcohol during pregnancy, then the baby will have brain damage called fetal alcohol spectrum. They will need an external brain-someone to watch over them 24/7.

I have been a high school art art teacher for 27 years. I taught in the TOUGHEST inner city school in my city for 12 years. I have taught art from kindergarten to university. Children and youth are not bad people. We must help them to make the right choices in life through our example. If you do not want students to bring food and drinks to your class, then don't walk around with a cup of coffee in your hand.[hypocrisy].

The late George Carlin said it best; "It doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes two committed adults."

Did I mention that I am the Canadian High School Art Educator for 2012?

Tom Roberts[TJR]

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JBaymore    1,432

You go, Tom! Well said.

 

And congratulations again on the honor.

 

Staying away from politics here as much as I can...... (forum rules) .... I have to say that here in the USA many of the public school core academic policies of the last decade or so have not been positive factors in the effectiveness of our K-12 educational structure.

 

And great Carlin quote.

 

best,

 

....................john

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Marcia Selsor    1,301

Congratulations again for the honor, Jim.

 

I want to stay away from this too. After my last full time teaching gig in 2011-2012, I never want to go back to a University Gen Ed. classroom. I found many of the students (class of 100 and required) to be rude, texting constantly, walking in and out of the classroom, and cheating blatantly. This is an open enrollment campus until next year.

The Art majors were great. The kids coming over daily from Mexico were the best and more dedicated than the townies in general. The Mexican students even complained about the others' poor behavior. I had to send students to the Dean of Students for behavior problems.

 

This year the Dean of Humanities and Interim chair have forced all lecturers ( only one teacher on tenure track in Art and he is the interim chair) to teach 5 classes/semester and no overload pay. They cover everything from 2 ceramics classes, advance Art History, Art Appreciation with 100 students and Education courses. This does not meet accreditation standards. No support techs to fire kilns, no graders to help grade papers or tests. So times have gotten pretty bad. It still is better than many young MFA people teaching as adjuncts at 4 colleges.

I don't think we have the best educational system in the world. I think the American culture distrusts education. In fact, it is often ridiculed. Dumbing down of society is happening. IMHO.

 

Marcia

 

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TJR    359

John, Marcia;

Gee.. that sounds like a cheesy soap opera. Anyway, I have great respect for you both as educators. I had no idea that you were teaching upwards of 100 students. I have had classes of 30 which I have complained about loudly. I know many states and provinces do not value the arts, and view it as a dumping ground. Four years ago I was on a teacher exchange to Australia. There were 7 art teachers in a school the same size as mine. However, they worked us pretty hard with a dog's breakfast of grades from 7-11. All gr.9's were separated out and the poor first year teachers got to teach them.It was a bit of a war zone.One day we'll get together over a beverage and really talk.

Tom[TJR].cool.gif

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Marcia Selsor    1,301

any chance you'll be going to Milwaukee NCECA next year. I'd buy the first beer!

Maybe take you to the Texas Party!

Marcia

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TJR    359

any chance you'll be going to Milwaukee NCECA next year. I'd buy the first beer!

Maybe take you to the Texas Party!

Marcia

 

 

Marcia;

It's tempting. If I could swing a presentation/panel discussion on education I would come. We drove down to Houston one Christmas. Took us 3 days. The difficult part was coming back to the cold and dark. Bought a cactus when I was there, and sauteed it in butter like the grocer said. Guess what it tasted like? .....pause here for effect.. a cactus!

Tombiggrin.gif

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Marcia Selsor    1,301

any chance you'll be going to Milwaukee NCECA next year. I'd buy the first beer!

Maybe take you to the Texas Party!

Marcia

 

 

Marcia;

It's tempting. If I could swing a presentation/panel discussion on education I would come. We drove down to Houston one Christmas. Took us 3 days. The difficult part was coming back to the cold and dark. Bought a cactus when I was there, and sauteed it in butter like the grocer said. Guess what it tasted like? .....pause here for effect.. a cactus!

Tombiggrin.gif

 

 

Proposals are due in May. Propose a k-12 panel. There are enough people here to develop a good group. I have a napolito cactus in my back yard. It is about 15 ft. tall.

Marcia

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Nelly    16

any chance you'll be going to Milwaukee NCECA next year. I'd buy the first beer!

Maybe take you to the Texas Party!

Marcia

 

 

Marcia;

It's tempting. If I could swing a presentation/panel discussion on education I would come. We drove down to Houston one Christmas. Took us 3 days. The difficult part was coming back to the cold and dark. Bought a cactus when I was there, and sauteed it in butter like the grocer said. Guess what it tasted like? .....pause here for effect.. a cactus!

Tombiggrin.gif

 

 

Proposals are due in May. Propose a k-12 panel. There are enough people here to develop a good group. I have a napolito cactus in my back yard. It is about 15 ft. tall.

Marcia

 

 

Dear Tom,

 

Way to go Canada!!!!! THAT is an honor.

 

Well done. Must make you feel good you are teacher Tom.

 

Nelly

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derp    0

Derp;

I love these kind of questions! The youth of today are just as good and bad as we were and in generations past. It is up to parents and teachers and others to help form the youth into the wonderful human beings that they can be. There are sometimes mitigating circumstances that stall students from developing, like the realization that they are not loved or valued by their parents.Then they become emotionally disturbed. If the mother drank alcohol during pregnancy, then the baby will have brain damage called fetal alcohol spectrum. They will need an external brain-someone to watch over them 24/7.

I have been a high school art art teacher for 27 years. I taught in the TOUGHEST inner city school in my city for 12 years. I have taught art from kindergarten to university. Children and youth are not bad people. We must help them to make the right choices in life through our example. If you do not want students to bring food and drinks to your class, then don't walk around with a cup of coffee in your hand.[hypocrisy].

The late George Carlin said it best; "It doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes two committed adults."

Did I mention that I am the Canadian High School Art Educator for 2012?

Tom Roberts[TJR]

 

 

thanks for your reply tom. Like what you said specially the last line is awesome. For me parents are more responsible for this.

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Marcia Selsor    1,301

Seriously , Tom. Write a proposal for a panel or a presentation for NCECA. You have the expertise, the acknowledgement of success with your honor. You could share quite a lot of great insight.

 

Marcia

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JBaymore    1,432

Seriously , Tom. Write a proposal for a panel or a presentation for NCECA. You have the expertise, the acknowledgement of success with your honor. You could share quite a lot of great insight.

 

Marcia

 

 

+1

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Natania    6

I second (third) that. I think it is important to expose young people to clay whenever possible. A good number of people only understand what I mean by the word "potter" from taking a class in high school. Otherwise they think I am related to Harry Potter (ha ha). A K-12 panel at NCECA is a great idea, and I bet there are many teachers out there who would like to participate and endorse the importance of ceramics in art ed. A lot of schools would have no 3-D art if it weren't for a ceramics class or two. And, sadly, many schools do not have any ceramics classes as well. when they should. There are many issues to discuss, and if anyone wants help brainstorming what they might be I'd be glad to help, either here on the forum or with another online format....

 

P.S. I have taught teenagers in several countries and now teach high school students from various countries. Unfortunately, I do find that on average my American students tend to be less focused and serious about learning, and more entitled overall (of course I have many wonderful American students as well).... Conversely, I find that in America, a lot of the focus in K-12 education is to prepare people for "the work force" with the emphasis being on getting (and presumably keeping) well paying jobs ($$$). Once they have these jobs I bet they will be expected to work long hours with little time for themselves and families (another American trend in my opinion), so there is a disconnect somewhere here. I would rather see an emphasis on developing individuals who can think and create and leaving the job part up to colleges, life, etc. but I am probably in the minority here....

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TJR    359

any chance you'll be going to Milwaukee NCECA next year. I'd buy the first beer!

Maybe take you to the Texas Party!

Marcia

 

 

Marcia;

I had to look Milwaukee up on google maps. It's not that far from where I live. I could even drive it. Google it and look NW,past Minneapolis. I am 500 miles N of Minneapolis in Winnipeg. I'd love to hear the story of how you traded a dinner ware set for a devorce. Might be worth a drive.

Tom. biggrin.gif

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Marcia Selsor    1,301

any chance you'll be going to Milwaukee NCECA next year. I'd buy the first beer!

Maybe take you to the Texas Party!

Marcia

 

 

Marcia;

I had to look Milwaukee up on google maps. It's not that far from where I live. I could even drive it. Google it and look NW,past Minneapolis. I am 500 miles N of Minneapolis in Winnipeg. I'd love to hear the story of how you traded a dinner ware set for a devorce. Might be worth a drive.

Tom. biggrin.gif

 

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Marcia Selsor    1,301

I don't have to google it. I know where you are and where Milwaukee is. I have driven across from Montana to the east many times and my friend lives in Manitoba.

Think about it. Get some others to talk about effective teaching through clay. There was an issue in Education decades ago in Studio Potter. Maybe time for some more.

 

There are several other educators on here as well. Pull them out of the woodwork. It would be a great contribution. Really. Go http://www.nceca.net...amproposals.php

 

Marcia

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I am not quite sure what moral education is. But the basics of student involvement is that some are good and some are not. If you have one, or two, or if your really lucky three great students in each class then wow! SWEET! But the fact is there is and has always been some bad and some mediocre students. I have seen the bad ones sometimes become good students and I have seen ups and downs with all levels of student interest.

 

Laying down the law and rules and making them clear along with following through with them is important. If students are late, they get marked as late. If students are absent, they get marked as absent. After a decided amount they fail the class, that is listed and clear on the syllabus. If they are rude they are asked first to respect others and if the behavior keeps up they are asked to leave, (I never had to do that). If they use their cell phones for texting they are marked as absent. If they talk on their phones, same thing. So, that is in a university setting. In HS there is a limited way of dealing with some issues but many can be dealt with in a similar manner.

 

However I have found that because I am a total geek about clay and I am so excited about all there is to art that generally most of my students are really excited to learn. The excitement and energy rubs off. And the more students I have excited the more the other students join in.

 

Do I still have a student or maybe two in a class who is to put it bluntly are the dullest crayons in the box, of course I do.

 

But not every student needs to be awake to make teaching worth it. The students who are geeking out on the clay are really the students we are there for. You only hope the others are getting some appreciation for the material and the discipline that we love so much.

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Pres    896

You go, Tom! Well said.

 

And congratulations again on the honor.

 

Staying away from politics here as much as I can...... (forum rules) .... I have to say that here in the USA many of the public school core academic policies of the last decade or so have not been positive factors in the effectiveness of our K-12 educational structure.

 

And great Carlin quote.

 

best,

 

....................john

 

 

I'm happy to see that some people recognize the state of affairs that NCLB led the country to. The digital age was to remove a lot of the multiplication of paper work that we had before, policies like NCLB just increased it and took much of the joy of teaching out of teaching.

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TJR    359

You go, Tom! Well said.

 

And congratulations again on the honor.

 

Staying away from politics here as much as I can...... (forum rules) .... I have to say that here in the USA many of the public school core academic policies of the last decade or so have not been positive factors in the effectiveness of our K-12 educational structure.

 

And great Carlin quote.

 

best,

 

....................john

 

 

I'm happy to see that some people recognize the state of affairs that NCLB led the country to. The digital age was to remove a lot of the multiplication of paper work that we had before, policies like NCLB just increased it and took much of the joy of teaching out of teaching.

 

 

Pres;

I don't know what NCLB is. National Council on Licenced Barbecues? National Co-ordinated Libertarian Babies. I am just guessing here. Can you help me out?

Tom.

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dawn523    1

NCLB is "No Child Left Behind" act. There is also a growing drive in the state of Florida for STEM programs at the elementary level. (Science technology engineering and mathmatics)

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Benzine    611

In my short time teaching, I would say things have gotten a bit more difficult, in regards to what is required of teachers, and how the students, and parents, behave.

 

When I first started, No Child Left Behind, was going into full effect. It sounds like a great idea, in theory, "All students should get a quality education, and not be overlooked". The problem is, as with most things, it's not that simple. Every student is expected to improve. A student with a severe learning disability, they have to improve. A student, who doesn't care, they have to improve. A student, who performs at the upper level anyway, they have to improve. It's just not realistic, and when schools are judged by, and given money based on how well said students perform on a standardized test, it's actually not fair. Even worse, what about the schools, that base teacher pay, based on how well students perform? How do non-core teachers fit into that? Last I checked, there isn't a section on those tests for art terminology.

 

Beyond that, everyone seems to be finding new ways, for teachers, to demonstrate that they are actually teaching. Teachers have to create a portfolio, every couple years, attend so many professional development classes a year as well as take recertification classes to keep their license up. Much of this actually takes the teacher out of the classroom, or at least burns through their prep time.

 

I'm not going to pretend, that I have the answer, for the best way to evaluate teachers, especially those weirdos, that make up the art department(s). But I can tell you that politicians, aren't the best people to create that evaluation.

 

I've also discussed some of the upcoming trends, in other topics, such as No zeroes, and Standards Based Grading. Some have more merit than others, but all disregard, and dispute, some of the core concepts of the American education system.

 

When it comes to the students, they have gotten a bit worse, in some regards. I won't argue, the kids themselves are the same, but the parents and the world, seem to expect less from them, and as taking the path of least resistance is human nature, the students have grown accustomed to that.

The students are used to having constant stimulus from some type of electronics, hence their desire to text, tweet, etc constantly. I like technology, but we need to condition the students to survive without it. The problem is, trying to punish students these days has become harder to do. Even if teachers do so, there seems to less support, for the teachers, at home. Time was, if you got in trouble at school, you got worse, when you got home. Now, the parents don't really care, or worse, take their child's side. One of the biggest issues, that seems to have developed in the past couple years, is attendance. Parents have been calling their child out, for anything, and there is not much the school can do. The student misses, and then they expect the teacher to get them up to speed, like it's no big deal, they miss a couple days a week. My district, has started getting the District Attorney involved, once a student misses so many days, excused or not.

 

I think we do have great schools, in the U.S. But I also think, that we need to start expecting more from our students.

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TJR    359

NCLB is "No Child Left Behind" act. There is also a growing drive in the state of Florida for STEM programs at the elementary level. (Science technology engineering and mathmatics)

 

 

Dawn;

Thanks for cluing me in. I really didn't know what that term meant.I don't know if we have that policy specifically in Canada.

TJR.

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TJR    359

In my short time teaching, I would say things have gotten a bit more difficult, in regards to what is required of teachers, and how the students, and parents, behave.

 

When I first started, No Child Left Behind, was going into full effect. It sounds like a great idea, in theory, "All students should get a quality education, and not be overlooked". The problem is, as with most things, it's not that simple. Every student is expected to improve. A student with a severe learning disability, they have to improve. A student, who doesn't care, they have to improve. A student, who performs at the upper level anyway, they have to improve. It's just not realistic, and when schools are judged by, and given money based on how well said students perform on a standardized test, it's actually not fair. Even worse, what about the schools, that base teacher pay, based on how well students perform? How do non-core teachers fit into that? Last I checked, there isn't a section on those tests for art terminology.

 

Beyond that, everyone seems to be finding new ways, for teachers, to demonstrate that they are actually teaching. Teachers have to create a portfolio, every couple years, attend so many professional development classes a year as well as take recertification classes to keep their license up. Much of this actually takes the teacher out of the classroom, or at least burns through their prep time.

 

I'm not going to pretend, that I have the answer, for the best way to evaluate teachers, especially those weirdos, that make up the art department(s). But I can tell you that politicians, aren't the best people to create that evaluation.

 

I've also discussed some of the upcoming trends, in other topics, such as No zeroes, and Standards Based Grading. Some have more merit than others, but all disregard, and dispute, some of the core concepts of the American education system.

 

When it comes to the students, they have gotten a bit worse, in some regards. I won't argue, the kids themselves are the same, but the parents and the world, seem to expect less from them, and as taking the path of least resistance is human nature, the students have grown accustomed to that.

The students are used to having constant stimulus from some type of electronics, hence their desire to text, tweet, etc constantly. I like technology, but we need to condition the students to survive without it. The problem is, trying to punish students these days has become harder to do. Even if teachers do so, there seems to less support, for the teachers, at home. Time was, if you got in trouble at school, you got worse, when you got home. Now, the parents don't really care, or worse, take their child's side. One of the biggest issues, that seems to have developed in the past couple years, is attendance. Parents have been calling their child out, for anything, and there is not much the school can do. The student misses, and then they expect the teacher to get them up to speed, like it's no big deal, they miss a couple days a week. My district, has started getting the District Attorney involved, once a student misses so many days, excused or not.

 

I think we do have great schools, in the U.S. But I also think, that we need to start expecting more from our students.

 

Benzine;

You are right. The NCLB is a political movement to keep kids in school and off unemployment rolls. In Australia, the then prime minister, Kevin Rudd brought this in. The idea was that all youth under 21, if not employed, would be in some sort of course, and were not eligible for welfare. In Canada, education is a provincial mandate. Ontario teachers are currently working to rule for better pay. This means no coaching, no clubs or intramural sports. It has gone on a long time-since September.

TJR.

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Benzine    611

TJR, sadly, No Child Left Behind, seems to be a lot of rhetoric. Like I said, it sounds good in theory.

 

 

What's really unfortunate is that there are shifts in educational theory and required policy all the time. This means that teachers are expected to constantly change, what they are doing in their classroom. At the very best, teachers have to add something, to what they normally do. At the very worst, they have to completely redo, everything that works for them, and their class(es).

I mentioned required professional development meetings, in my first post. Since I've been teaching, there hasn't been two years in a row, where we continued a professional development focus, from one year to the next. It's something new every year. We do it, basically because we have to. All the while, we are having early outs, and morning meetings, which take away from our work time, in our class, with students.

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