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orange with dark green shino


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#1 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:57 AM

I have been looking for the perfect glaze to use on a specific sculpted pot that i made. I have seen images of a bright orange shino with dark green breakthrough but I cannot find a product that looks like that. Can any of you experienced potters point me in the right direction?
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#2 AtomicAxe

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:17 AM

that is a carbon trapping shino. there is no product for that, that requires testing and specific practices earned by repeatedly mapping kilns and making a million tests. for every one pot that person made that was that glaze, probably 2 were not.

you want a shino glaze with a high amount of soda ash and you want the glazed ware to go in the kiln and fired as soon as possible, the more time the soda ash has to migrate to the surface, the more white it will be.

#3 neilestrick

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:35 PM

you want a shino glaze with a high amount of soda ash and you want the glazed ware to go in the kiln and fired as soon as possible, the more time the soda ash has to migrate to the surface, the more white it will be.


I respectfully do not agree with this statement. For the shinos I have used over the years, if you want good carbon trapping, then you need to allow time for the soda ash to come to the surface, as it is what traps the carbon. The more soda ash comes to the surface the glossier it will be, but not necessarily white. Sometimes it will be white, or yellowish/greenish if very thick, or it will trap carbon and be dark. Whiteness in shino glazes is also achieved by thickness. It typically gets whiter as it gets thicker.
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#4 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:32 PM

do you have opinions on how to get this color effect using store products and Not using an actual shino? Is there a good place (web page) that has a variety of test tiles of layered purchased glaze?
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#5 neilestrick

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

Unfortunately, glaze manufacturers rarely show their glazes layered. In my opinion, fake shino looks really fake, and won't fool anyone who has ever used a real shino. Maybe look fo something that behaves similarly, but isn't necessarily a shino. Shino glazes are very stiff/waxy, don't flow/run.
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#6 JBaymore

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:33 PM


you want a shino glaze with a high amount of soda ash and you want the glazed ware to go in the kiln and fired as soon as possible, the more time the soda ash has to migrate to the surface, the more white it will be.


I respectfully do not agree with this statement. For the shinos I have used over the years, if you want good carbon trapping, then you need to allow time for the soda ash to come to the surface, as it is what traps the carbon. The more soda ash comes to the surface the glossier it will be, but not necessarily white. Sometimes it will be white, or yellowish/greenish if very thick, or it will trap carbon and be dark. Whiteness in shino glazes is also achieved by thickness. It typically gets whiter as it gets thicker.


I'm with Neil on this one.

best,

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#7 Biglou13

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:19 PM

do you have opinions on how to get this color effect using store products and Not using an actual shino? Is there a good place (web page) that has a variety of test tiles of layered purchased glaze?


Nothing like carbon trap here. But you asked for layered glazes. Here is link.

http://www.amaco.com...-choice-glazes/

Turns I think they are advertisers/sponsors of site.

What will get you is when you start experimenting /layering w ith other commercial glazes.

Check out Steven hill's work and his layered glazes. His work is amazing. (While most of my tests look like clown puke)
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#8 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:01 AM


do you have opinions on how to get this color effect using store products and Not using an actual shino? Is there a good place (web page) that has a variety of test tiles of layered purchased glaze?


Nothing like carbon trap here. But you asked for layered glazes. Here is link.

http://www.amaco.com...-choice-glazes/

Turns I think they are advertisers/sponsors of site.

What will get you is when you start experimenting /layering w ith other commercial glazes.

Check out Steven hill's work and his layered glazes. His work is amazing. (While most of my tests look like clown puke)



thanks! I appreciate the link with the amaco layered glaze. Steven's work is Fricking amazing!
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#9 AtomicAxe

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:35 PM

What the OP is looking for is not the black carbon surface trapping that comes with shino, that comes from firing the carbon trapping shino when fully dry. At which point it's more of a stark contrast, the soda ash not going to flux the foot and exposed clay areas into a lovely red-to brown sheen of an almost salt/wood fire consistancy. And in contrast, much color from subtle carbon trapping does not represent itself into the piece. That requires an earlier firing. in that case, the glaze can go from white, to red, to green, to black with even the least amount of reduction. It is as alive as the flames themselves and just as unpredictable.

Of that note, I won't bicker further about this as what Rebby needs is something consistant, and this direction is for a different discussion. Especially since shino debates can last years ... or decades. And I will follow my own knowledge of years, firing shinos and ash glazes as my primary glazes. Cheers.

--------------------------------------------

Rebby, are you firing to oxidation or reduction? and to what cone? you might not be able to get that brilliant orange to red with that certain non-metallic sheen that a shino can achieve, but perhaps I might be able to find you an alternative from my notes that will get similar but stable results.

#10 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:03 PM

What the OP is looking for is not the black carbon surface trapping that comes with shino, that comes from firing the carbon trapping shino when fully dry. At which point it's more of a stark contrast, the soda ash not going to flux the foot and exposed clay areas into a lovely red-to brown sheen of an almost salt/wood fire consistancy. And in contrast, much color from subtle carbon trapping does not represent itself into the piece. That requires an earlier firing. in that case, the glaze can go from white, to red, to green, to black with even the least amount of reduction. It is as alive as the flames themselves and just as unpredictable.

Of that note, I won't bicker further about this as what Rebby needs is something consistant, and this direction is for a different discussion. Especially since shino debates can last years ... or decades. And I will follow my own knowledge of years, firing shinos and ash glazes as my primary glazes. Cheers.

--------------------------------------------

Rebby, are you firing to oxidation or reduction? and to what cone? you might not be able to get that brilliant orange to red with that certain non-metallic sheen that a shino can achieve, but perhaps I might be able to find you an alternative from my notes that will get similar but stable results.


I am using Oxidation Cone 5-6.

I appreciate the passion you all have in the topic. I am totally ignorant to it, you could all be speaking in russian and I would get just as much out of it! Posted ImagePosted Image I am at the very very early stages of learning as I haven't even been making pots of a year. I am still learning my skill and control of the clay and have not even ventured into the glazing aspects enough to know about it. I know what i think is pretty but I could not identify what they are.
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#11 AtomicAxe

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 09:04 PM

Alrighty, cone 6 should be easy enough for me to try to play with to see if I can find something interesting in my glaze tests.

#12 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 10:58 PM

Alrighty, cone 6 should be easy enough for me to try to play with to see if I can find something interesting in my glaze tests.





While you are at it- Posted Image Maybe you could steer me in the direction of an red/orange/ yellow breakthrough? I actually need both color combos for the same piece.



I am making a pineapple and the red/ green is the effect i want for the foliage and the bottom part of this pineapple is the effect I am hoping to achieve for the bottom.

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#13 OffCenter

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:14 AM


Alrighty, cone 6 should be easy enough for me to try to play with to see if I can find something interesting in my glaze tests.





While you are at it- Posted Image Maybe you could steer me in the direction of an red/orange/ yellow breakthrough? I actually need both color combos for the same piece.



I am making a pineapple and the red/ green is the effect i want for the foliage and the bottom part of this pineapple is the effect I am hoping to achieve for the bottom.


This whole thread is absolutely priceless!!!

Jim
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#14 Rebekah Krieger

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:35 AM



Alrighty, cone 6 should be easy enough for me to try to play with to see if I can find something interesting in my glaze tests.





While you are at it- Posted Image Maybe you could steer me in the direction of an red/orange/ yellow breakthrough? I actually need both color combos for the same piece.



I am making a pineapple and the red/ green is the effect i want for the foliage and the bottom part of this pineapple is the effect I am hoping to achieve for the bottom.


This whole thread is absolutely priceless!!!

Jim


I was hoping i didn't freak anyone out with the second color request... Posted Image
Learning On my Kick wheel with my vintage Paragon (from the late 1960's)

#15 Venicemud

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:23 PM

Have you looked at the Coyote Clay and Color website? They have a green "Shino" though I wouldn't call the breakthrough color orange - more like a redish brown. The second glaze effect you wanted may require overlapping glazes and, thus, quite a bit of experimentation. If you go to the Coyote website and click on their Large Tile section you can see examples of all of their glazes and clicking on those that have a blue band around them will reveal examples of pots using that particular glaze - quite often with, and overlapping of, other glazes in their repertoire. Maybe you can get some hints of glazes to try or perhaps combinations to avoid. Joan Klotz

#16 Claypple

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 12:27 PM




Alrighty, cone 6 should be easy enough for me to try to play with to see if I can find something interesting in my glaze tests.





While you are at it- Posted Image Maybe you could steer me in the direction of an red/orange/ yellow breakthrough? I actually need both color combos for the same piece.



I am making a pineapple and the red/ green is the effect i want for the foliage and the bottom part of this pineapple is the effect I am hoping to achieve for the bottom.


This whole thread is absolutely priceless!!!

Jim


I was hoping i didn't freak anyone out with the second color request... Posted Image



AtomicAxe probably thought: "Wow, that was too much!" and ran away.







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