Jump to content


Photo

magic water


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 CarmKim

CarmKim

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:00 PM

can magic water be made with out soda ash?

#2 Chris Campbell

Chris Campbell

    clay stained since 1988

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,950 posts
  • LocationRaleigh, NC

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:23 PM

At the risk of giving offense to it's fans ...
I think it's the cute name "magic water" that makes everyone think it works better than plain old vinegar and water.
Put about 1 teaspoon of vinegar in a quart of water. Spritz and attach.
or ... use your throwing slurry to attach
or ... make your own water/clay slip from the clay you are using to attach

Mostly, its all about attaching at the right time with the same moisture levels in the pieces. No amount of 'magic' anything can overcome trying to attach something dry to something wet. : - )

Chris Campbell
Contemporary Fine Colored Porcelain
www.ccpottery.com

TRY ...   FAIL ...  LEARN ...  REPEAT


#3 Marcia Selsor

Marcia Selsor

    Professor Emerita, Montana State University-Billings

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,516 posts
  • Locationwhere Texas, Matamoros, Rio Grande and Gulf of Mexico come together.

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:46 PM

I am a big fan of vinegar too.

Marcia

#4 Pres

Pres

    Retired Art Teacher

  • Moderators
  • 1,738 posts
  • LocationCentral, PA

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

I am a big fan of vinegar too.

Marcia


I'm a big fan of vinegar and water, and even vinegar-water-paper clay slip. However, when I started using magic water with my students, I found that there was considerable less construction cracking with slab and coil pieces. It was interesting to note that coil pieces could be assembled without a whole lot of extra slip that would soften coil lines when students desired to have them. We also were able to make cleaner slab joins with smaller reinforcing coils. Just a few thoughts I observed with students.

Back to the original question. I have made some magic water using bone ash, and some with wood ash. They really didn't seem a whole lot different from the soda ash on my work.

Simply retired teacher, not dead, living the dream. on and on and. . . . on. . . .                                                                                 http://picworkspottery.blogspot.com/


#5 Benzine

Benzine

    Socratic Potter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,184 posts
  • LocationThe Hawkeye State

Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:23 AM

As opposed to starting an entirely new thread, I'll just breath some life into this one. For years I have been using a product called "Ceramic Enhancer". It's a small bottle of liquid that you add to slip, which is used to mend relatively dry pieces. The liquid doesn't allow the clay to shrink as it dries, greatly minimizing the cracks that would form, if you were to just use plain slip. The product can also be used to "Enhance" glazes, though I've never used it for that.

So my question is, would magic water and/or paper clay be better for mending projects, than the afforemoentioned Ceramic Enhancer?
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#6 Min

Min

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 253 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:46 AM

There was a thread discussing how to heat baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to turn it to soda ash, if you have baking soda available that might be an idea.

 

Thread is http://ceramicartsda...soda#entry41692



#7 Kohaku

Kohaku

    Huffing cobalt over a Raku kiln

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • LocationMoscow, Idaho

Posted 12 September 2013 - 11:09 AM

At the risk of giving offense to it's fans ...
I think it's the cute name "magic water" that makes everyone think it works better than plain old vinegar and water.
Put about 1 teaspoon of vinegar in a quart of water. Spritz and attach.
or ... use your throwing slurry to attach
or ... make your own water/clay slip from the clay you are using to attach

Mostly, its all about attaching at the right time with the same moisture levels in the pieces. No amount of 'magic' anything can overcome trying to attach something dry to something wet. : - )

 

I certainly haven't noted any marked increase in success rates for complex objects since I've added this stuff to my score and slip ritual.

 

Of course... now I hate to give it up in case I'm mistaken...


Not all who wander are lost

#8 Wyndham

Wyndham

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 273 posts
  • LocationSeagrove NC

Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:46 PM

I had always thought that "Magic Water" was sodium silicate and water. I have added some sodium silicate to some slip/slop clay and found it worked well on attaching handle on dryer mugs.

Wyndham



#9 Diane Puckett

Diane Puckett

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 384 posts
  • LocationAsheville, NC

Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:50 PM

Re vinegar, does it matter what kind it is? I have read apple cider vinegar but wonder if I can use distilled white vinegar.
Diane Puckett
Dry Ridge Pottery

#10 jrgpots

jrgpots

    "The creations of the hands can express the soul."

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 336 posts
  • LocationHurricane, Utah

Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:10 PM

Re vinegar, does it matter what kind it is? I have read apple cider vinegar but wonder if I can use distilled white vinegar.


1. Does balsomic vinigar give it more culture?.....lol.
2. Would your red apple vinigar work better with apple wood ash?.....just curious.....
3. If I added paper clay, would it be better to add ash from pencil shavings?

I could not help injecting some sick humor or "crack a joke" every once in a while.

Jed

#11 TJR

TJR

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,041 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:33 PM

Re vinegar, does it matter what kind it is? I have read apple cider vinegar but wonder if I can use distilled white vinegar.

Cheaper the better. Wine vinegar and cider vinegar have a stronger odour, but all are ascetic acid. All work the same.Just buy the generic big jug [of viegar] and you are laughing.

TJR.



#12 TJR

TJR

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,041 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:35 PM

I agree with Chris. I slap my handles on as soon as I am done trimming the mugs. The following day from throwing them.Not possible if you are in a once a week class. Keep your work moist with a damp cloth,wrapped inside plastic.

TJR.



#13 mregecko

mregecko

    Potteries

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 135 posts
  • LocationBay Area, CA

Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:18 PM

I had always thought that "Magic Water" was sodium silicate and water. I have added some sodium silicate to some slip/slop clay and found it worked well on attaching handle on dryer mugs.

Wyndham

 

I do the same thing. I hate the smell of vinegar, and it attracts fruit flies in the studio, so I usually use the sodium silicate of magic water. Never have any problems with attachments cracking. But I also use pretty forgiving clays.



#14 Bob Coyle

Bob Coyle

    GEEZER

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 285 posts
  • LocationSanta Fe

Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:39 PM

 

There was a thread discussing how to heat baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to turn it to soda ash, if you have baking soda available that might be an idea.

This idea keeps popping up. I don't get it. Why not just buy soda ash? There is hardly a difference in price and it is readily available.



#15 Benzine

Benzine

    Socratic Potter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,184 posts
  • LocationThe Hawkeye State

Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:15 PM

Honestly, I haven't needed anything for my own work. My handles and such rarely crack, even a bit.
I am just always looking for a better method, for mending student projects. Without fail, a couple get broken, at the bone dry stage, and I need a good way to repair them.
As I said, I currently use the Ceramic Enhancer, which does work fairly well. But if something works better, and is cheaper, then I'm all for it.
"Anything worth believing, is worth questioning"

#16 Min

Min

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 253 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:36 PM

 

 

There was a thread discussing how to heat baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to turn it to soda ash, if you have baking soda available that might be an idea.

This idea keeps popping up. I don't get it. Why not just buy soda ash? There is hardly a difference in price and it is readily available.

 

 

I just brought it up because the original poster was asking if you can make magic water without it. Most people have baking soda at home so it wouldn't involve a trip to the supplier when all you need for a gallon of m.water is 1 1/2 tsp of soda ash (plus 3 Tbs sodium silicate)



#17 Pres

Pres

    Retired Art Teacher

  • Moderators
  • 1,738 posts
  • LocationCentral, PA

Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:45 AM

On this same topic, I have read lately that some folks are using toilet paper blended into the magic water or the slip, even though the clay being joined is not made up of paper clay. I imagine that this may be helpful, as it would cut the shrinkage of the slip.  I usually end up with magic water in the small dish I use that has quite a bit of clay in it, and on the pot the scoring/scrubbing surfaces mixes a bit of clay into the magic water so the addition of a little paper might be helpful. I'll have to experiment.  

 

When working with HS project, joining pieces together was a problem when they allowed them to get too dry.  I probably took a radical solution to this, but it worked especially with their thrown pieces. I would first tell them that my solution could or could not solve their problem and that there were other alternative that they could try and would name/explain them. Those that went with my original suggestion would watch me dump their pot into a bucket of water, hold it under, take it out and let it sit for a few seconds til not longer shiny, do it again, and then again. Afterwards I would wrap it tightly in plastic for a day. Next day add the handle or other ornaments etc and re-wrap tightly for the week. Usually the handles stayed on, the pot survived and the student was. .. happy.


Simply retired teacher, not dead, living the dream. on and on and. . . . on. . . .                                                                                 http://picworkspottery.blogspot.com/


#18 Kohaku

Kohaku

    Huffing cobalt over a Raku kiln

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • LocationMoscow, Idaho

Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:07 PM

On this same topic, I have read lately that some folks are using toilet paper blended into the magic water or the slip, even though the clay being joined is not made up of paper clay. I imagine that this may be helpful, as it would cut the shrinkage of the slip.  I usually end up with magic water in the small dish I use that has quite a bit of clay in it, and on the pot the scoring/scrubbing surfaces mixes a bit of clay into the magic water so the addition of a little paper might be helpful. I'll have to experiment.  

 

When working with HS project, joining pieces together was a problem when they allowed them to get too dry.  I probably took a radical solution to this, but it worked especially with their thrown pieces. I would first tell them that my solution could or could not solve their problem and that there were other alternative that they could try and would name/explain them. Those that went with my original suggestion would watch me dump their pot into a bucket of water, hold it under, take it out and let it sit for a few seconds til not longer shiny, do it again, and then again. Afterwards I would wrap it tightly in plastic for a day. Next day add the handle or other ornaments etc and re-wrap tightly for the week. Usually the handles stayed on, the pot survived and the student was. .. happy.

 

Lakeside Pottery calls this stuff 'Magic Mud'. I've successfully used it to re-bisque and repair cracked wares. Definitely works well for joining dry elements.


Not all who wander are lost




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users