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#1 Strelnikov

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:17 PM

My wife and I recently bought a used Paragon B99B kiln. We haven't hooked it up yet but I noticed that the steel plate under the firebrick floor has completely rusted away where it sets on the stand and the bare firebrick is exposed. The steel plate is still there close to the walls of the kiln. Is it okay to use in this condition? And what does it take to replace the bottom steel floor plate of this kiln? Could I find a piece of steel plate to set the kiln on where the original plate is gone?

#2 Mark C.

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

Without a photo its only a guess-
Kiln floor needs to be support-It holds all the load of shelve and wares.
I suggest since its not set up to unstack it and take floor to a metal supply shop and get one made from either 3/16 or 1/4 inch steel or 1/4 inch aluminum. It can even be diamond plate
Just make sure that it stays absolutely flat when they fabricate it.
It can be round or have the multi sides cut-whatever is cheaper.
In our area the shop is called Eureka boiler works-any large metal supply outlet can do this for you.They sell structural steel and also fabricate it.
Mark
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#3 neilestrick

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:19 PM

Yeah, that's a problem with those old Paragon kilns. The floors always rust out eventually. As long as there is still steel around the edges where it contacts the stand you should be okay. It should sit even, without rocking. Completely removing the remaining steel can be a real mess, but may be necessary if it just won't sit properly. If the floor is in good condition, without cracks, I don't think you'll need to replace the steel. The floor slab should be strong enough on it's own. Most kilns don't have a steel sheet under them. Maybe Arnold from Paragon will weigh in on this. There may be a reason for the steel that I'm not aware of.
Neil Estrick
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#4 Strelnikov

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:20 PM

Thanks Mark, the kiln is currently setting in our family room and will have to be taken apart to move it out to our porch, which will be its permanent home. I don't know anyone who could fabricate a new bottom plate for it but I have a friend who should know. He owns a business and occasionally requires metal fabrication to be done.

#5 Strelnikov

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

Yeah, that's a problem with those old Paragon kilns. The floors always rust out eventually. As long as there is still steel around the edges where it contacts the stand you should be okay. It should sit even, without rocking. Completely removing the remaining steel can be a real mess, but may be necessary if it just won't sit properly. If the floor is in good condition, without cracks, I don't think you'll need to replace the steel. The floor slab should be strong enough on it's own. Most kilns don't have a steel sheet under them. Maybe Arnold from Paragon will weigh in on this. There may be a reason for the steel that I'm not aware of.


The kiln doesn't rock on its stand but the floor has several hariline cracks in it. The walls do as well. Not sure how serious that is or how much it would cost to replace the cracked fire bricks.

#6 Mark C.

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:40 PM


Yeah, that's a problem with those old Paragon kilns. The floors always rust out eventually. As long as there is still steel around the edges where it contacts the stand you should be okay. It should sit even, without rocking. Completely removing the remaining steel can be a real mess, but may be necessary if it just won't sit properly. If the floor is in good condition, without cracks, I don't think you'll need to replace the steel. The floor slab should be strong enough on it's own. Most kilns don't have a steel sheet under them. Maybe Arnold from Paragon will weigh in on this. There may be a reason for the steel that I'm not aware of.


The kiln doesn't rock on its stand but the floor has several hariline cracks in it. The walls do as well. Not sure how serious that is or how much it would cost to replace the cracked fire bricks.


If the floor is cracked all the more reason to support it-I would not worry about a few bricks with cracks even in the walls as they are trapped in place with shell.
I checked out this model online and its standard 3 section kiln.
Many kilns come with no support under floor but thats always been a cost saving issue I think just as using poor quality stainless that rusts or metal screws that rot away instead of stainless-a few pennies saved in the long run costs the consumer.I will add its a pet peeve of mine. I'm not suggesting a stainless floor but one thats thick enough to handle rust for many years.

Mark
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#7 neilestrick

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:48 PM



Yeah, that's a problem with those old Paragon kilns. The floors always rust out eventually. As long as there is still steel around the edges where it contacts the stand you should be okay. It should sit even, without rocking. Completely removing the remaining steel can be a real mess, but may be necessary if it just won't sit properly. If the floor is in good condition, without cracks, I don't think you'll need to replace the steel. The floor slab should be strong enough on it's own. Most kilns don't have a steel sheet under them. Maybe Arnold from Paragon will weigh in on this. There may be a reason for the steel that I'm not aware of.


The kiln doesn't rock on its stand but the floor has several hariline cracks in it. The walls do as well. Not sure how serious that is or how much it would cost to replace the cracked fire bricks.


If the floor is cracked all the more reason to support it-I would not worry about a few bricks with cracks even in the walls as they are trapped in place with shell.
I checked out this model online and its standard 3 section kiln.
Many kilns come with no support under floor but thats always been a cost saving issue I think just as using poor quality stainless that rusts or metal screws that rot away instead of stainless-a few pennies saved in the long run costs the consumer.I will add its a pet peeve of mine.
Mark


Adding a steel plate under a kiln would definitely increase the cost. It would also be one more piece to replace, after it rusted out all over your floor, as described above. A stainless sheet would be impossibly expensive. If a floor is properly leveled and sits evenly on the stand, it will last a good long time. It's extremely rare that I replace a floor slab- maybe one every couple of years. Most every dead, worn out kiln I put in the dumpster still has the original floor.
Neil Estrick
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Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
www.neilestrickgallery.com

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#8 Strelnikov

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

I'm going to see how much it will cost to get a flat piece of 1/4" steel plate to put between the stand and the bottom of the kiln. The stand doesn't have a solid top and the small amount of surface area at the top of the stand in contact with the bottom of the kiln looks to me like it could damage the floor of the kiln if it is in direct contact with the fire bricks.

#9 Strelnikov

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:26 PM

Does anyone know the thickness/gauge of the sheet metal at the bottom of this kiln? I'm thinking I should replace the rusted out area with a new piece of sheet metal of the proper thickness before putting the entire kiln on a 1/4" thick piece of steel plate setting on top of the stand. If I don't do this there will be a gap between the fire bricks at the bottom center of the kiln and the base plate on the stand, causing the fire bricks at the bottom of the kiln to crack even more.

#10 bciskepottery

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

Arnold Howard, kiln guru from Paragon, is a member of the forum; find him in the gallery and shoot him an email message . . . he will be more than willing to help you out and provide excellent advice. Or try tech support at the Paragon website.

#11 Arnold Howard

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:53 AM

My wife and I recently bought a used Paragon B99B kiln. We haven't hooked it up yet but I noticed that the steel plate under the firebrick floor has completely rusted away where it sets on the stand and the bare firebrick is exposed. The steel plate is still there close to the walls of the kiln. Is it okay to use in this condition? And what does it take to replace the bottom steel floor plate of this kiln? Could I find a piece of steel plate to set the kiln on where the original plate is gone?


A badly rusted galvanized steel base generally indicates that the kiln is either very old or that moist greenware was fired. When the moisture drips from the steel case, you can be sure that parts are going to rust.

I suggest that you buy a piece of sheet metal that is large enough to cover the outside of the firebrick floor. A square piece of metal is okay. It doesn't have to be cut to the shape of the kiln. Have people lift the kiln. Then slide in the sheetmetal and lower the kiln. The new sheetmetal goes between the kiln stand and the firebrick bottom.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

#12 Arnold Howard

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

Most kilns don't have a steel sheet under them. Maybe Arnold from Paragon will weigh in on this. There may be a reason for the steel that I'm not aware of.


The galvanized steel base helps to support the brick bottom and the hundreds of pounds of ware that are loaded in the kiln. The base plate is not easy to manufacture. Tabs on the steel base are folded and inserted into the steel case on all sides. The steel base protects the firebrick bottom from gouges caused by centering the kiln on the stand.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

#13 Arnold Howard

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

Does anyone know the thickness/gauge of the sheet metal at the bottom of this kiln? I'm thinking I should replace the rusted out area with a new piece of sheet metal of the proper thickness before putting the entire kiln on a 1/4" thick piece of steel plate setting on top of the stand. If I don't do this there will be a gap between the fire bricks at the bottom center of the kiln and the base plate on the stand, causing the fire bricks at the bottom of the kiln to crack even more.


12 gauge sheet metal between the kiln bottom and stand. I don't think you need 1/4" steel.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

#14 Strelnikov

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

Thanks very much for your replies. Hopefully we will get it going soon. The place where we are putting it was carpeted. We tore up the carpet which was glued to a concrete slab. I would like to put something on top of the concrete because the glue is ugly and will be very hard to get off. What would you recommend to put between the concrete and the kiln stand? Something that is fireproof and will bear the weight of the kiln and look decent.

#15 Strelnikov

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:03 AM


Does anyone know the thickness/gauge of the sheet metal at the bottom of this kiln? I'm thinking I should replace the rusted out area with a new piece of sheet metal of the proper thickness before putting the entire kiln on a 1/4" thick piece of steel plate setting on top of the stand. If I don't do this there will be a gap between the fire bricks at the bottom center of the kiln and the base plate on the stand, causing the fire bricks at the bottom of the kiln to crack even more.


12 gauge sheet metal between the kiln bottom and stand. I don't think you need 1/4" steel.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com


It looks too thin to be 12 gauge. I managed to find a micrometer and it looks more like 24 gauge.

#16 Arnold Howard

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:42 AM

It looks too thin to be 12 gauge. I managed to find a micrometer and it looks more like 24 gauge.


We are currently making the full-formed steel base with 12 gauge galvanized steel for kilns of that size.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com




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