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#1 Mutt

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:02 PM

I found some decals that use a colorful ink and are on a clear cellophane-like paper. The images that are on them are some classical chinese design. There is a bit of lettering with people catching koi or with a phoenix. They don't have a brand name or any instructions. I cut off a small piece and used denatured alcohol to try and adhere it. It got a bit sticky but mostly it rubbed holes in the small piece. I was wondering if anyone had come across something like this and if the could help me with instructions on how to use them.

#2 JBaymore

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

Mutt,

They are likely ceramic decals using overglaze enamels (china paint). COULD be decals using lusters... but those are rare.

You float the decal in water for a few minutes, then take the decal while still on the backing paper and place it next to the spot that you want the decal to be. Then you slide the decal off the backing and into place on the already fired glaze surface. This can be tricky.

You then CAREFULLY, using a very FINE soft sponge, smooth out the decal so that there are absolutely NO wrinkles, airbubbles, or trapped pockets of water under it.

Then let it dry for 24 hours.

It gets fired to likely Orton (small) cone 014 -016.... although the exact formulation will determine firing range.

Almost for SURE these contain lead as a flux and if reds and oranges are there...cadmium also. Not too many decal manufacturers that use lead free overglazes for this. Some... but not many. SO watch handling, firing fumes (but so little material from only a couple of decals....not an issue) and potential leaching from food contact surfaces.

best,

...........john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#3 jo4550

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:23 PM

Mutt,

They are likely ceramic decals using overglaze enamels (china paint). COULD be decals using lusters... but those are rare.

You float the decal in water for a few minutes, then take the decal while still on the backing paper and place it next to the spot that you want the decal to be. Then you slide the decal off the backing and into place on the already fired glaze surface. This can be tricky.

You then CAREFULLY, using a very FINE soft sponge, smooth out the decal so that there are absolutely NO wrinkles, airbubbles, or trapped pockets of water under it.

Then let it dry for 24 hours.

It gets fired to likely Orton (small) cone 014 -016.... although the exact formulation will determine firing range.

Almost for SURE these contain lead as a flux and if reds and oranges are there...cadmium also. Not too many decal manufacturers that use lead free overglazes for this. Some... but not many. SO watch handling, firing fumes (but so little material from only a couple of decals....not an issue) and potential leaching from food contact surfaces.

best,

...........john


In my experience there seem to be some really big issues with these decals. The first issue is that they are extremely fragile in attaching to the surface following the instructions given in Chinese Clayart, California.. They do not want to stick very well to the glaze surface once floated on. They are at risk of adhering to your fingers, squeegees or sponges once on. They will adhere to themselves very quickly if creased and are impossible then to smooth out.

The second big issue is that they burn out very readily. Do NOT assume that you can fire them at the temperature you normally use for the conventional decals. The ceramic colour used fluxes at a much lower temperature and runs. I fire all my work to 810.C including decals as I work wirth porcelain and the glazes I use need that temperature to accept the overglaze at its optimum.

In my opinion (I do have a lot of experience with decals), this type of decal is not worth buying as the failure rate is high . You would be better served finding ones that have the conventional cartridge paper backing as well as the heavier covercoat which gives greater rigidity yet flexibility and a much wider and reliable firing range.

Regards
Johanna

#4 JBaymore

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

Aha... thanks for chiming in here, Johanna. I assumed that the "celophane" he mentioned was the decal itself with the overcoat. Hence the "backing" comment.

So...... it's THOSE "cheap stuff" ones.


best,

.............john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#5 jo4550

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:24 PM

Aha... thanks for chiming in here, Johanna. I assumed that the "celophane" he mentioned was the decal itself with the overcoat. Hence the "backing" comment.

So...... it's THOSE "cheap stuff" ones.


best,

.............john


Hi John
I didn't see that these decals were any cheaper in price when I purchased them from Chinese Clayart but I guess they are made with "cheaper" materials. It is painful to have to throw them away as I pay at 50% on top of the value of my decal order in postage to get them to Australia and I have to buy in larger quantities to make it worthwhile. However I do go with the old addage "once bitten, twice shy"

Regarding the "look" of these decals on purchasing, they look like and feel like clingwrap (term used in Oz for light plastic used in kitchens and very much like drycleaners plastic). The covercoat is also clear thus making it more stressful for failing eyesight. Working with it is a bit like working with spiders' silk.

Regards
Johanna

#6 JBaymore

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

.........but I guess they are made with "cheaper" materials.


Johanna,

That's what I meant...... cheaper to fabricate for the manufacturer.

Can you get some stuff out of Japan? Strong tradition for overglaze work. Much closer to Austrailia shipping-wise than European or American sourcing. And likely very good quality.

The materials I get from there are always "first rate".

best,

.......................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com




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