Bajamary Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I'm new to this forum and wanted to ask this question. I've been using Duncan Concept's Bright Butternut underglaze. I've been firing to come 6 and have had great results, the glase is a lovely yellow/gold similar to what you see in Mexican Pottery. I want to glaze some very large garden pots and made an inquiry to Duncan to see if I could purchase the glaze in a larger quantity than the 8oz jar. The answer was yes, but I had to go thru a commercial pottery supplier. I went to Aardvark with the request and while they were very helpful, the end result was that I had to buy three 3 1/2 gallon containers of the glaze at a total of over $1,200.00 Something that is impossible, so my question is does anyone have a good cone 6 yellow gold receipe? I'm going to start testing and see if I can replicate this glaze or at least come close. It's really a nice color. If anyone is familiar with Duncan Bright Butternut, you will know what I mean. I look forward to seeing what this request brings.... Bajamary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlady Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 congratulations on deciding to ask for help. this is a great place to do it. it is helpful that you have included the firing temperature but more information is needed to answer it. for example, you are talking about using an underglaze in the first part and then you call it a glaze later. your question probably makes sense to you but you have put it out on the whole web hoping someone who is familiar with a specific manufacturer's product will be the only one to answer you. this is a forum where many busy potters of varying degrees of expertise can help you. BUT you need to answer a few questions first. i am not being mean or unhelpful but you really need to know how to think of your question before you ask it. for example, is the finish matte or shiny once you finish it? do you cover it with a glaze at all? underglazes can be fired and left without a glaze covering but you have to think about the practical side of the pot when it is in use. what clay do you use? do you already have ingredients to mix a glaze in your studio including mason stains? have you made glaze before or do you just buy bottles of whatever you want? are you familiar with the glaze recipies commonly used at your firing temperature? do you have big enough buckets or containers to dip the pots, or do you want to make enough glaze to dip at all? do you spray your glazes or pour them? think through what you want to do and how to present your question so you will get the answer you need sooner. like a lot of potters i have been making glazes for years. i have 252 tests on one white clay body. i have a couple of very nice yellow glazes. i also fire at cone 6 in an electric kiln. my favorite base glazes are based on some that were published by bill van gilder and/or hesselberth and roy, (or way back, george wettlaufer) and modified to the color i wanted. that explains the 252 tests so far. if cone six oxidation suits you, ask for my recipes. they are way back in my studio so if they are not what you need, please say so. if you choose to make them, you will have to TEST them on your clay to find out if the color is what you want. do not be discouraged and think this answer is putting you down or any other negative thought you may have. i am trying to be instructive, not destructive. i would just like you to think clearly and learn to love what you do so you can answer some other newbie's question some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bajamary Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 congratulations on deciding to ask for help. this is a great place to do it. it is helpful that you have included the firing temperature but more information is needed to answer it. for example, you are talking about using an underglaze in the first part and then you call it a glaze later. your question probably makes sense to you but you have put it out on the whole web hoping someone who is familiar with a specific manufacturer's product will be the only one to answer you. this is a forum where many busy potters of varying degrees of expertise can help you. BUT you need to answer a few questions first. i am not being mean or unhelpful but you really need to know how to think of your question before you ask it. for example, is the finish matte or shiny once you finish it? do you cover it with a glaze at all? underglazes can be fired and left without a glaze covering but you have to think about the practical side of the pot when it is in use. what clay do you use? do you already have ingredients to mix a glaze in your studio including mason stains? have you made glaze before or do you just buy bottles of whatever you want? are you familiar with the glaze recipies commonly used at your firing temperature? do you have big enough buckets or containers to dip the pots, or do you want to make enough glaze to dip at all? do you spray your glazes or pour them? think through what you want to do and how to present your question so you will get the answer you need sooner. like a lot of potters i have been making glazes for years. i have 252 tests on one white clay body. i have a couple of very nice yellow glazes. i also fire at cone 6 in an electric kiln. my favorite base glazes are based on some that were published by bill van gilder and/or hesselberth and roy, (or way back, george wettlaufer) and modified to the color i wanted. that explains the 252 tests so far. if cone six oxidation suits you, ask for my recipes. they are way back in my studio so if they are not what you need, please say so. if you choose to make them, you will have to TEST them on your clay to find out if the color is what you want. do not be discouraged and think this answer is putting you down or any other negative thought you may have. i am trying to be instructive, not destructive. i would just like you to think clearly and learn to love what you do so you can answer some other newbie's question some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bajamary Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Well, I read your reply several times and found it interesting that you must have known exactly how you meant what you said, because you told me more than once that you wern't trying to be "mean" I will most likely not be asking any more questions of this forum. I didn't expect to receive many replys as it was for something specific. I was not interested in being told how stupid I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel_Rocker Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 I think oldlady was just trying to explain that to get a complicated recipe to you close to what you want initially she needs a lot of specific info. And by stating she didn't mean to offend she meant to NOT get the response you gave. It's always hard to help people out on simple things on the internet when they give little info, even harder when trying something complicated like a specific glaze color. People often get bent out of shape on the internet and that's why people add those warnings to their posts right off the bat. She doesn't know you, she doesn't know what you know about glazes, she only knows there are a lot of questions she needs answered to help you right (and she is willing to do so). She offered to give you specific glaze recipes if you were to just give her specific details first. She's probably really busy so she wants to be proficient and not waster your time or hers. IMO you should be grateful that she is willing to help you find exactly what you want, just give her the info she asked for and don't be a ######## about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JBaymore Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Bajamary, Let me see if I can give you something possibly helpful here.......... If you can, can you please get an image of the color you are trying to duplicate up here on this thread? You can attach image files to postings on these forums. (Just make sure the image file is not too large...... something like a 1024 x 768 at 72 dpi jpg file would be fine.) Having an image would maybe help folks here a bit to give you some decent answers. Aha..... nevermind...... I just did a web search on "Duncan Bright Butternut" and found that color is an underglaze color. That is, unless there is also a different product they make utilizing the same name. But that is unlikely. http://www.chicagoce...roductID_E_4605# http://www.chicagoce...012_12_8_55.jpg Are you using the underglaze without a covering glaze, or are you putting a transparent or translucent cone 6 glaze over it? Underglazes are really just "fancy slips", usually (but not always) utilizing stabilized ceramic color stains rather than oxides to obtain the colors, and usually adding suspension agants and binders to affect the application consistency of the product. It is possible that you could find a ceramic color stain from someone like Mason Color and Chemical ( http://www.masoncolor.com/ ) that it what is being used in that Duncan underglaze (or close to it), and then find a good cone 6 white slip recipe in which to add it. Slip formulations are basically very cheap to produce. You'll have to do some testing work, but it likely would coast far less than the minimum of over a Grand . And you'll learn a lot in doing the testing, and you'll have a nice sense of "ownership" in the final results. It looks like maybe yellows stains #6410 or #6450 might be a good place to start on that project, possibly blended with some #6464. best, .............john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bajamary Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Bajamary, Let me see if I can give you something possibly helpful here.......... If you can, can you please get an image of the color you are trying to duplicate up here on this thread? You can attach image files to postings on these forums. (Just make sure the image file is not too large...... something like a 1024 x 768 at 72 dpi jpg file would be fine.) Having an image would maybe help folks here a bit to give you some decent answers. Aha..... nevermind...... I just did a web search on "Duncan Bright Butternut" and found that color is an underglaze color. That is, unless there is also a different product they make utilizing the same name. But that is unlikely. http://www.chicagoce...roductID_E_4605# http://www.chicagoce...012_12_8_55.jpg Are you using the underglaze without a covering glaze, or are you putting a transparent or translucent cone 6 glaze over it? Underglazes are really just "fancy slips", usually (but not always) utilizing stabilized ceramic color stains rather than oxides to obtain the colors, and usually adding suspension agants and binders to affect the application consistency of the product. It is possible that you could find a ceramic color stain from someone like Mason Color and Chemical ( http://www.masoncolor.com/ ) that it what is being used in that Duncan underglaze (or close to it), and then find a good cone 6 white slip recipe in which to add it. Slip formulations are basically very cheap to produce. You'll have to do some testing work, but it likely would coast far less than the minimum of over a Grand . And you'll learn a lot in doing the testing, and you'll have a nice sense of "ownership" in the final results. It looks like maybe yellows stains #6410 or #6450 might be a good place to start on that project, possibly blended with some #6464. best, .............john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bajamary Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 John, Thank you for your reply, I have a picture of a pot with the Bright Butternut on it, but I'm not sure how to attach it to this reply. Even tho this is an underglaze it fires to cone 6 just fine and keeps it's color and brightness. I do not put a clear glaze over it. I get a nice shine to the finish. I use it on some ornamental fish pots, not on anything functional. If I can figure it out, I'll send the picture, in the meantime, I will start testing. I have always made my own glazes, and have only recently started trying some of the commercial glazes. I have some nice base glaze receipes and will test with different colorants. I had asked the first question just in the hopes of finding someone out there who had used Bright Butternut, knew what it looked like and perhaps had a cone 6 receipe that came close to the color. I appreciate your professional reply.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denice Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 You might try the Cone 6 Electric Forum they have several glaze data bases, I think it cost 9 dollars to join but it is well worth it. I have used Dk Butternut at cone 1 but couldn't find anything in my glaze samples close to it. Good Luck Denice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venicemud Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 The Mason Stain company has a stain that sounds, to me, like the one you want. It is Buttercup (6406) and it is not the bright light yellow that the name suggests to me but a very nice yellow gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hate to say it, but it's going to take a ton of testing to find something that works. Matching an existing color and surface is about as difficult as it gets in glaze formulation. If you have a base formula that has the surface qualities you want, then start testing stains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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