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$30,000 Grant winner - now what?


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#1 artmom111

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:36 PM

I just found out that I will be receiving between $15,000 and $30,000. I've got a brand new ceramics program. We have a kiln, and that's it - I need to get everything else. I would love all suggestions regarding floor plans, etc. the room I will be transforming is 24' x 22' and have the kiln elsewhere. I've got classes with 30 high school students. For sure, I want a pugger, slab roller, and some sort of sink, possibly a Cink that can handle clay. I've got an outside area that I'm contemplating screening and awning-ing so we can put the wheels outside. I just don't even know where to start. Please, PLEASE give me some suggestions so that's I make the right choices. Thanks very much!

#2 DAY

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:44 AM

Congratulations!
Get a Bailey DRD slab roller- they are simple and tough.

#3 clay lover

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:13 AM

Good for you!!



I recommend a large 5" square Baily extruder, easy to keep dies aligned, buy bigger than you think, you can do smaller things out of a bigger, but not bigger things out of a smaller.

I just got a Peter Pugger, the small one that takes 25 lbs of clay, what a wonderful machine! VERY well built, you might want the next size up for that many students.


happy shopping !

#4 Cass

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:38 AM

(....made no sense with added details)

#5 artmom111

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 10:01 AM

I was looking at the Peter Puggers and was told a Shimpo was a better choice. Ideas, anyone???

#6 neilestrick

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 11:05 AM

I was looking at the Peter Puggers and was told a Shimpo was a better choice. Ideas, anyone???


Peter Puggers are great! What did they say was better about the Shimpo?
Neil Estrick
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Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
www.neilestrickgallery.com

neil@neilestrickgallery.com

#7 JBaymore

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 11:11 AM

I just found out that I will be receiving between $15,000 and $30,000. I've got a brand new ceramics program.



So that people can advise you .... what exactly do you mean by this? Is this for a private cooperative type clay studio? Is this for the teaching of ceramics in a public school? Is this for a college / university art program? What are the age ranges if the folks that will be involved? What is the background/experience level of the people who will be doing the teaching? And so on. Those factors will (should) impact many reccommendations.

best,

........................john
John Baymore
Immediate Past President; Potters Council
Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art

http://www.JohnBaymore.com

#8 artmom111

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 12:22 PM

Excellent point! I am a high school teacher in Dallas ISD. I've been trying to get the school to offer ceramics for a while and they finally agreed. I am currently teaching about 200 kids per day and have a kiln. My classroom used to be a mechanical room turned into a science classroom, turned into my studio. We have 3 tiny sinks and only one wall for shelves. I've got some wobbly tables and student chairs.my desk takes up a serious portion of the room (the whole front) and cannot be moved. So...

I know I want some Shimpo Whisper wheels & stools, a Cink, a pugger with extrusion capability, slab roller. We need shelving, but I want it all to be movable - if I move classrooms, I will be taking everything with me. Regarding tables, do I want big & square or long and narrowish? The way the room is designed, if I put all the wheels on one side, I should be able to fit a row of tables opposite. I'm also concerned with cleaning the floors. I was entertaining the possibility of screening in and putting an awning in an outside area right outside my room for the wheels, but there are issues with that as well.

#9 Bill T.

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 04:27 PM

Excellent point! I am a high school teacher in Dallas ISD. I've been trying to get the school to offer ceramics for a while and they finally agreed. I am currently teaching about 200 kids per day and have a kiln. My classroom used to be a mechanical room turned into a science classroom, turned into my studio. We have 3 tiny sinks and only one wall for shelves. I've got some wobbly tables and student chairs.my desk takes up a serious portion of the room (the whole front) and cannot be moved. So...

I know I want some Shimpo Whisper wheels & stools, a Cink, a pugger with extrusion capability, slab roller. We need shelving, but I want it all to be movable - if I move classrooms, I will be taking everything with me. Regarding tables, do I want big & square or long and narrowish? The way the room is designed, if I put all the wheels on one side, I should be able to fit a row of tables opposite. I'm also concerned with cleaning the floors. I was entertaining the possibility of screening in and putting an awning in an outside area right outside my room for the wheels, but there are issues with that as well.


Not meaning to step on any suggestions from all these great potters, but you have quite a few sources in the Dallas area. For one, Randy Brodnaux (sp) whom I believe teaches at one on the community colleges. Maybe some one from Trinity Ceramics. Check with them, invite someone to visit your room to give you suggestions. I know I always run into potters when I go to Trinity to buy clay.

#10 phill

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:56 PM

You might want a bigger sink. The "Cink" looks fine but small. When class is over and all the kids rush to clean up, you want a big sink. Get the double sink and plug up one end for slaking down clay scrap and dumping clay remnants from the kids' buckets. Use the other side like a regular sink. At my old college, they had two of these huge double sinks and they work marvelously. Take a look at these heavy gauge stainless steel sinks: http://www.plumbings...obowlsinks.html

#11 Idaho Potter

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 04:12 PM

I agree with Phill, the Cink is too small for a large class. You might consider using a large, deep laundry tub as a clay trap (based on a plaster trap) under the actual sinks. My studio sinks are double stainless steel over a double laundry tub arrangement. The extra depth of the laundry tubs allows the turbidity caused by the influx of water and clay to settle--so the water that goes out the drain pipe is clear and any clay particles have settled to the bottom of the tubs. Similar to the Cink idea, but I've been using mine since 1985 and haven't had any plumbing problems. Main thing is to get the drain from the tubs as close as possible to the floor so your sinks won't be set too high.

In a class room, your best bet would be to have a large barrel to do initial rinsing. High school kids sometimes forget that clay is bad (REALLY BAD!) for drain lines. If you make sure any large amounts of clay--like dumping their slop bucket--is handled without danger to the plumbing you'll be beloved by the school maintenance crew.

I like giltex58's suggestion on contacting Randy Brodnaux or the local pottery supplier in your area. Just because you're starting out anew, there's no reason not to tap into the minds and memories of those who have been there, done that. Good luck, and congrats on your grant.

#12 kdm

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:34 PM

Congratulations! How exciting. I do pottery as a hobby and now have a small home studio, but I've been in several studio situations and am a former teacher. I'm pretty good at figuring out a good use of space and would love to help in any way I can. I live just north of Dallas so I could possibly come visit your space. I'd also suggest visiting as many established school ceramic studios and professional studios as possible. Those who have been there done that always have good ideas. Another source of info might be the Craft Guild of Dallas. They have recently moved into a new facility so they would have some great ideas or at least may show you their facilities. You have a good start by getting good info with this forum. Let me know if you'd like my help. Good luck!

#13 artmom111

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:47 PM

Congratulations! How exciting. I do pottery as a hobby and now have a small home studio, but I've been in several studio situations and am a former teacher. I'm pretty good at figuring out a good use of space and would love to help in any way I can. I live just north of Dallas so I could possibly come visit your space. I'd also suggest visiting as many established school ceramic studios and professional studios as possible. Those who have been there done that always have good ideas. Another source of info might be the Craft Guild of Dallas. They have recently moved into a new facility so they would have some great ideas or at least may show you their facilities. You have a good start by getting good info with this forum. Let me know if you'd like my help. Good luck!



AWESOME! I would love for you to come by so I could pick your brain. Please let me know when you could come visit. I'm at Warren T. White HS.

#14 Karen B

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:21 AM

sorry messed up

#15 Karen B

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:27 AM

I bought a Shimpo Pug Mill two years ago and am very happy with it. I do wish I spent the extra money and got the stainless steel casing. The interior blades are all stainless, just the casing offered a choice. It has an extruder plate that can be attached. Which I will order soon.

#16 kdm

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 03:56 PM


Congratulations! How exciting. I do pottery as a hobby and now have a small home studio, but I've been in several studio situations and am a former teacher. I'm pretty good at figuring out a good use of space and would love to help in any way I can. I live just north of Dallas so I could possibly come visit your space. I'd also suggest visiting as many established school ceramic studios and professional studios as possible. Those who have been there done that always have good ideas. Another source of info might be the Craft Guild of Dallas. They have recently moved into a new facility so they would have some great ideas or at least may show you their facilities. You have a good start by getting good info with this forum. Let me know if you'd like my help. Good luck!



AWESOME! I would love for you to come by so I could pick your brain. Please let me know when you could come visit. I'm at Warren T. White HS.



Did you get the message I left for you at your school? If not, I'll call again on Monday. K

#17 artmom111

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:19 PM

Yes, I did get your message but teach all day without a phon win my classroom. Email is MUCH better!
Kanelson@dallasisd.org




Congratulations! How exciting. I do pottery as a hobby and now have a small home studio, but I've been in several studio situations and am a former teacher. I'm pretty good at figuring out a good use of space and would love to help in any way I can. I live just north of Dallas so I could possibly come visit your space. I'd also suggest visiting as many established school ceramic studios and professional studios as possible. Those who have been there done that always have good ideas. Another source of info might be the Craft Guild of Dallas. They have recently moved into a new facility so they would have some great ideas or at least may show you their facilities. You have a good start by getting good info with this forum. Let me know if you'd like my help. Good luck!



AWESOME! I would love for you to come by so I could pick your brain. Please let me know when you could come visit. I'm at Warren T. White HS.



Did you get the message I left for you at your school? If not, I'll call again on Monday. K



#18 oldlady

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:48 PM

congratulations!!!

i am surprised that so far nobody has suggested you buy things that are used. one of the best places to find suitable studio equipment is at your local restaurant equipment supply dealer. they are a good source of stainless steel tables, used sinks like the ones in that previous plumbing supply post and rolling carts. since you are already part of a public school system, check out the items that school kitchens no longer use. i have been to several auctions of school equipment that has been released from inventory. tons of stuff is usually available. just because it was in a kitchen does not make a stainless table with heavy shelving under it unsuitable for a clay studio. my 8 foot stainless table was free from a pizza hut which was remodeled. i keep buckets of glaze on the bottom shelf and store new boxed clay below that on rolling 3/4 inch plywood which keeps itout of the way but convenient when needed.

rolling ware carts are sometimes free if you find a supermarket upgrading or closing down. i have six or so of various sizes. the most common shelf size seems to be about 18 inches by about 25 inches. i equipped each of them with heavy drywall shelves to fit. in my humid area, drywall is the choice that makes sense. (if i need to hold something in a moist state, i cover the item with thin sheet plastic or recycled grocery plastic bags with the handles removed.) the best way to see these shelf units is to visit your local supermarket with an active bakery section. the carts are heavy duty metal and wide spacers hold shelves firmly in place. in the bakery they are sometimes used to actually bake things, not just transport goods. that is why some of them have burned looking stains. (if they get to the local restaurant supply house they are cleaned up for resale, usually at about $50 each.) mine came free from a supermarket that was moving into a nice, new building and wanted new racks. all i did was ask at the right time and take them that minute in my pickup truck.

the same source may also have free buckets of various sizes. icing comes in 1 and 3 gallon plastic buckets with tight fitting lids and handles. some supermarkets give them away while others refuse to because they recycle them as grease containers. that means they won't have to rinse them out to give to you and probably save them until you can pick them up. realize that the store has to pay someone to clean them or they must throw them away so they do not attract rats. also, some bakeries only use icing that comes in plastic bags. i have actually bought cleaned buckets from a local donut shop for a dollar each which includes the lid. if you are really lucky and find a good source, you will have buckets forever, all free.

there are other containers you will need, check out local carry out restaurants for the quart, pint and half pint heavy plastic containers with lids usually reserved for chinese foods or soups. NOT styrofoam! find who has the best and ask where they came from. a restaurant supplier, most likely and under $5 for 25 of them. these are the translucent kind you can label using a sharpie. when you need to change the label, try cheap hairspray and a cotton ball to erase the sharpie or magic marker name you put on the container first. these make so much more sense than reusing grocery tubs originally used for things like cottage cheese or yogurt. yuk!

your grant money seems like a lot now, but if you save some pennies on what would normally be considered minor expenses, you will have more left for the big stuff. like plumber labor to install sinks. ( oh! right! you have a maintenance department! get to know and love them all, you will be needing them forever.) lowes or home depot have laundry sinks at about $20 each and a row of them will handle a lot of kids at once. of course you will do the prewashing in a barrel or something already suggested by previous posters. get several sinks, everyone will want to clean up at the same time.
"putting you down does not raise me up."

#19 oldlady

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:40 PM

continued because i was interrupted.

sinks can be set at various heights to accomodate kids whose reach keeps changing. find a kid of each size and check his or her reach to determine the settings for the sink heights. inserting a 3 inch tall pipe to stick up inside the drain will help keep mud out of the plumbing also. do not miss one other thing about cleanup. tools will often find their way into the bottom of the first clean-up barrel. to save them from sinking four feet into the muck, (and have volunteers ready to dig them out!) suspend a piece of hardware cloth inside the barrel just a few inches below the water level. this will not be easy, maybe you could ask for help from your new best friends. use 1/2 inch mesh to keep the mud flowing but the tools safe. you will probably still lose some tiny paintbrushes but most every other tool will be caught close enough to the surface for retrieval. setting up hardware cloth drainboards between every two sinks will help keep things neat. no dripping stuff dragged across the aisle to a table for storage. where the water drips below is something to discuss with the maintenance folks, too. get them involved, they will be cleaning up your space every night, make it easy for them.


kilns...........O. K. we all have our favorites. remember that you will be loading and unloading lots and lots of (probably heavy) student pots. get a front loader since you can afford it now. yes, today you are young and strong but that will change and why work harder than you have to? i know that Paragon is close to dallas, well, reasonably close. if you talk to them and let them know your needs, they will be happy to work with you. my old paragon was used when i bought it in the 70s and bob, since retired, helped me every time i needed it. ( it needs new elements now, anyone want to volunteer to do it?)

if you really want a top loader, L & L kilns are great. banging shelves loaded with pots on the sides as you lift them hardly hurts since the elements are set in hard grooves. my old paragon has chipped bricks near the elements, my 10 year old L & L looks new. the advice they give is priceless and free for the price of a phone call. rob battie is the best and he is patient about explaining how things really work. with his help, the maintenance is simple enough that i can do it. (at age 72 and afraid of electricity.) my kiln has 3 inch thick walls which helps hold heat in. because the walls are so thick, check the size of shelves so you do not wind up as i did with 21 inch shelves in a 22 1/2 inch space. that is hard on the elements since there is little room around the edges. if you can, add a second bottom so you have even more insulation available. do not go without a vent system! the school will probably require it anyhow.

whoever you buy from should offer you customized advice if you provide them with floor plans and details you can get from your maintenance people. remember them, your new best friends? talk to them early and often.

tables...............sturdy is the word. DO NOT cover the tops with canvas! the trapped dust is an unnecessary hazard. use TYVEK instead. it is wipe-down-with-water easy. it comes in hundred foot rolls 8 or 10 feet wide. was about $70 last time i priced it. it will last a long time if you do not cut it and is easy to staple into place over the edges of your tables so you can wipe things off easily. it will not stick to clay that is being worked on its top. it is magic.

there are lots of other things you can do to make your money last and the fun not stop. most of all, enjoy the experience. you will be setting up something which will last a long time. influencing kids who want to learn is wonderful for your soul. ENJOY!

Edited by oldlady, 28 September 2012 - 08:51 PM.

"putting you down does not raise me up."

#20 artmom111

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:04 PM

[thank you so much for the info. i have been looking online at restaurant used equipment, as i was thinking about that when i saw the price of the professional ceramic work tables. Yipes! I've got a kiln - front loading. S far, that's all I have. I'm sleepy tired but wanted to drop a quick note of thanks to everyone for your help. Keep it coming - there's so much to think about and consider...



quote name='oldlady' date='28 September 2012 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1348882805' post='22831']
continued because i was interrupted.

sinks can be set at various heights to accomodate kids whose reach keeps changing. find a kid of each size and check his or her reach to determine the settings for the sink heights. inserting a 3 inch tall pipe to stick up inside the drain will help keep mud out of the plumbing also. do not miss one other thing about cleanup. tools will often find their way into the bottom of the first clean-up barrel. to save them from sinking four feet into the muck, (and have volunteers ready to dig them out!) suspend a piece of hardware cloth inside the barrel just a few inches below the water level. this will not be easy, maybe you could ask for help from your new best friends. use 1/2 inch mesh to keep the mud flowing but the tools safe. you will probably still lose some tiny paintbrushes but most every other tool will be caught close enough to the surface for retrieval. setting up hardware cloth drainboards between every two sinks will help keep things neat. no dripping stuff dragged across the aisle to a table for storage. where the water drips below is something to discuss with the maintenance folks, too. get them involved, they will be cleaning up your space every night, make it easy for them.


kilns...........O. K. we all have our favorites. remember that you will be loading and unloading lots and lots of (probably heavy) student pots. get a front loader since you can afford it now. yes, today you are young and strong but that will change and why work harder than you have to? i know that Paragon is close to dallas, well, reasonably close. if you talk to them and let them know your needs, they will be happy to work with you. my old paragon was used when i bought it in the 70s and bob, since retired, helped me every time i needed it. ( it needs new elements now, anyone want to volunteer to do it?)

if you really want a top loader, L & L kilns are great. banging shelves loaded with pots on the sides as you lift them hardly hurts since the elements are set in hard grooves. my old paragon has chipped bricks near the elements, my 10 year old L & L looks new. the advice they give is priceless and free for the price of a phone call. rob battie is the best and he is patient about explaining how things really work. with his help, the maintenance is simple enough that i can do it. (at age 72 and afraid of electricity.) my kiln has 3 inch thick walls which helps hold heat in. because the walls are so thick, check the size of shelves so you do not wind up as i did with 21 inch shelves in a 22 1/2 inch space. that is hard on the elements since there is little room around the edges. if you can, add a second bottom so you have even more insulation available. do not go without a vent system! the school will probably require it anyhow.

whoever you buy from should offer you customized advice if you provide them with floor plans and details you can get from your maintenance people. remember them, your new best friends? talk to them early and often.

tables...............sturdy is the word. DO NOT cover the tops with canvas! the trapped dust is an unnecessary hazard. use TYVEK instead. it is wipe-down-with-water easy. it comes in hundred foot rolls 8 or 10 feet wide. was about $70 last time i priced it. it will last a long time if you do not cut it and is easy to staple into place over the edges of your tables so you can wipe things off easily. it will not stick to clay that is being worked on its top. it is magic.

there are lots of other things you can do to make your money last and the fun not stop. most of all, enjoy the experience. you will be setting up something which will last a long time. influencing kids who want to learn is wonderful for your soul. ENJOY!
[/quote]




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