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Chattering?


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#1 Bobg

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:12 PM

I've been watching some video's on YouTube on chattering. But, they never have said how dry the piece needs to be to do it. Anyone got any suggestions? The first pots I tried it out on we're drier than I normally like when trimming( it was hot out and I didn't get back to them soon enough).

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Bob

#2 Mark C.

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:42 PM

Are you trying to prevent or do you want chattering?
I'm unclear on what you want?
Mark
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#3 Bobg

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:44 PM

Hi Mark,

Sorry about not specifying what I wanted.

I do want chattering on my pots. Just never seen it mentioned how dry they need to be. I first pots I tried it on were just past the hard leather stage.

Bob

#4 Mark C.

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:51 PM

Chatter occurs when the clay is as you said just past leather hard to leather hard-the speed and trim tool will also affect this.
I have spent most of my years trimming trying to AVOID chattering .
For me it occurs easier when pots are past idea moisture state to trim ( that is drier than I'd like) I also notice that a broader trim tool seems to make it jump (chatter more) as well as a certain RPM. I use a smaller tool and change up rpm's to avoid as well as rewet pot
As noted I always try to avoid this so its harder for me to say exactly how to get this.
Hope this helps you.
Mark
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#5 ayjay

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:58 PM

I am far from from being an authority on this (or much else), but I've recently started playing with the idea myself and have made precisely two chattered pieces.

I did mine on the wheel, right after they were thrown. I also made my own chattering tool so it's possible that that may not be working correctly either. One was only bisque fired at the weekend and it's awaiting glaze and the other I've dared to take a pic and put it below.

They are a long way from the finished article, but we all have to start somewhere and I am still experimenting and enjoying experimenting.


Hopefully someone will be along who knows more than me. :)

Edit: I took so long writing that and taking pics that they already have.

#6 yedrow

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:02 PM

I like to chatter pieces when the clay is leather hard, about the consistency of a block of cheddar cheese. If it's a little wetter the force can push through and leave marks on the other side, and if its too dry the tool will tend to slip along the surface and not dig in. Also, you have two angles to work with, that of the tip of the tool (lateral so to speak) and that of the tool itself (longitudinal). You can change these to get a better 'dig' in the clay and to alter the pattern.

Joel.

#7 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:58 AM

Chattering happens when the clay is beyond leather hard but also depends on the speed AND the angle of your tool.
Like Mark I try to avoid it, but it can be a very cool pattern.
Marcia

#8 neilestrick

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:00 AM

Chattering can be done at just about any degree of leather-hardness. The softer the clay, the deeper your tool will cut in.
Neil Estrick
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#9 yedrow

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:38 AM

Yes, wheel speed matters. But to get really nice designs I focus on tool angle.

Posted Image


#10 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:33 PM

Yes, wheel speed matters. But to get really nice designs I focus on tool angle.

Posted Image

Nice piece!

#11 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:34 PM

Great texture! Is that chattering?


Marcia

#12 atanzey

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:07 PM

Joel - I (hopefully) see another video coming on.... ;-)

Alice

#13 yedrow

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:58 PM

Yes Marcia, that's a chattered piece, thank you for the compliment :)

Alice, I have a couple that need editing. I'm on a deadline for getting work done on a building and these days I'm so busy I can't even imagine surviving this phase of my existence. I got some time off last night and I should have done that.

Joel.

#14 LilyT

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:12 AM

Joel, that's beautiful, such nice form and balance.

Take some time for yourself so you don't burn out!

#15 Brian Reed

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:31 AM

I have been playing around with Chattering for about 6 months now and have enjoyed the journey. Here is a recent bowl. I like the accidental nature of the chatter and the simple way it is made.



I always do the chatter at high speed on the wheel with a sharpened tool. The clay will need to be a little beyond leather hard as many have stated above. place the cutting edge lightly and at a sharp angle to the pot surface. I then listen for the right frequency that I am looking for and then move it to the right rhythm down the pot from the smallest point to the widest point of the pot.


Posted Image
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#16 LilyT

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:43 PM


Yes, wheel speed matters. But to get really nice designs I focus on tool angle.

Posted Image

Nice piece!


Joel, are the long swirly ridges in place before you started the chatter, or did they somehow develop as a result of repeated chattering?

I still love this pot so much.

Thanks,
Lily




#17 JLowes

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:37 AM

I usually use chattering as an accent, or a place to put some color on a form. I have never gotten chattering close to what Joel achieved in his marvelous example, so I am curious as to how it was done as well. In fact, I have not gotten what Brian Reed has regularly either, so advise on which tool one is using for the chattering is also important.

The tool I use is one I made from a piece of steel strapping from a pallet. I have several configurations, including a straight cut across, one with a single vee point and one with two vee points, each one has a "handle" that is the strap folded a a little over 90 degrees to the point. I use the single vee point the most and play with wheel speed, how loosely I am holding the tool, where along the handle I hold the tool and where in leather hard the clay is for variation. I find that you can chatter fairly early, but waiting until the clay surface is quite firm works best for me. I sometimes help get it there with a heat gun I keep at my wheel.

I attached a couple examples of my pots with the accent chattering. The pattern on the red on white jar is what I get most of the time.

John

Attached Files



#18 Brian Reed

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:46 AM

John,

Oh my goodness that lidded jar is beautiful. The form is perfect and color treatment fits it well.



To answer you question about tools you are right it makes all the difference. I use a hacksaw blade bent at 90 degrees and sharpened on the end like a knife. I have several ends that I like to use. I see you used a flat edge. That makes a nice texture, but is totally different from a pointed edge, a flattened point, but my favorite is the rounded edge. My biggest tip is to sharpen your tools each time you sit and trim, and use the frequency and sound more that visual to tell if you are getting the chattering right. It should be smooth and rhythmic.
Brian Reed

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#19 Mark McCombs

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:01 PM

To answer you question about tools you are right it makes all the difference. I use a hacksaw blade bent at 90 degrees and sharpened on the end like a knife. I have several ends that I like to use. I see you used a flat edge. That makes a nice texture, but is totally different from a pointed edge, a flattened point, but my favorite is the rounded edge. My biggest tip is to sharpen your tools each time you sit and trim, and use the frequency and sound more that visual to tell if you are getting the chattering right. It should be smooth and rhythmic.


I use a hacksaw blade as well but I never thought to have different shaped cutting surfaces.

Thanks for the tip, Brian. B)
Mark
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#20 yedrow

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 08:36 PM

Lily,

That is just from one chattering.

John,

Just use the tool like a guitar string. I use any piece of flat thin metal. Banding straps make good tools. Here is a pic of the tool I used on the piece in the earlier pic.

Posted Image




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