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Disappointed in my new wheel


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#1 ThisIsMelissa

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:09 PM

So, I bought that Creative Industries Artista.
My local clay supply place had one on floor model where the owner matched the internet price.
I felt good that I was keeping my money local, all the while, appeasing the hub who tightly controls purse strings.

Well, I bought it on a Satruday. 8 days later (this last Sunday), I took her for her first spin.
Boy was I disappointed.
When I was at the supplier, I noticed a slight wobble, but the sales guy (not the owner) told me if I located the high spot, I could whack it with a mallet at home. I asked if that would make the wheel non-refundable, to which to answered "well, Mike doesn't want to take it on return if you're paying by CC, cuz we'll be out the card processing fees".
When I unpacked the wheel, I saw the date 5-25-2005. Good gravy, that wheel has been on their floor for 7 years?

Well, when I threw the first ball of clay, it was impossible to center and pulling a wall was even worse.
Now, I've emailed the owner asking him to refund my money. I do not want to pay to ship it to Speedball (Creative Industries merged with them a few years ago) for repairs. I don't want the supplier to repair it (ie, whack it with a mallet), cuz in my mind, a new wheel, "that has never been used" should perform properly right from the getgo. I did offer to pay for the credit card processing fee as a re-stock fee.

The owner hasn't returned my email after 2 days and now I'm getting nervous that he's not going to be amicable with the deal.

I don't know what to do. I just want to walk away from this wheel and get the Shimpo VL Lite I should have gotten from the start.

#2 flowerdry

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:35 PM

I'm so sorry to hear about your disappointment. Just for what it's worth, I ordered a Shimpo Lite (I don't think it's a VL) from Clay-king and have been delighted with it. You didn't say...does it still wobble?

Doris Hackworth

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#3 Mark C.

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:38 PM

but the sales guy (not the owner) told me if I located the high spot, I could whack it with a mallet at home. I asked if that would make the wheel non-refundable, to which to answered "well, Mike doesn't want to take it on return if you're paying by CC, cuz we'll be out the card processing fees".
When I unpacked the wheel, I saw the date 5-25-2005. Good gravy, that wheel has been on their floor for 7 years?



Whacking a wheel head to true it up is not anything one should ever do-EVER
As this is a new (demo) purchase and after talking to the owner (not e-mail) tell him you will pay the C/C process fees (up to 4-5%). Be polite and firm as selling a wheel with a bent shaft even as a demo is not ok.
Call the owner (not-e-mail) and offer the C/C processing fees. I looked up your post on this as I had sent you a PM on my thoughts.
I could not tell weather this supplier had the VL wheel? if they do they can sell that to you and still be happy. If its with someone else to bad for them.
You still hold all the cards as you can call your credit card company for up to 2-3 months and contest the sale as bad -mention the faulty wheel and that it was 7 years old.(no one should ever sell a wheel that need hitting with a mallet) They will refund the charge to you if you have paid it already-if not contest before paying-either way you take the wheel back to supplier after talking to your c/c company.-Tell the owner you would rather let them make this right but only give then a very short time to make it right.
Give him a chance before doing this.
I am sorry you had to go thru this. If it was me I'd want to use that mallet on something other than a wheel head if you get my meaning.
When you use a credit card you have most of the rights so do not let this get you down as you will come out on top.
Mark
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#4 ThisIsMelissa

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:48 PM


Whacking a wheel head to true it up is not anything one should ever do-EVER
As this is a new (demo) purchase and after talking to the owner (not e-mail) tell him you will pay the C/C process fees (up to 4-5%). Be polite and firm as selling a wheel with a bent shaft even as a demo is not ok.
Call the owner (not-e-mail) and offer the C/C processing fees. I looked up your post on this as I had sent you a PM on my thoughts.
I could not tell weather this supplier had the VL wheel? if they do they can sell that to you and still be happy. If its with someone else to bad for them.
You still hold all the cards as you can call your credit card company for up to 2-3 months and contest the sale as bad -mention the faulty wheel and that it was 7 years old.(no one should ever sell a wheel that need hitting with a mallet) They will refund the charge to you if you have paid it already-if not contest before paying-either way you take the wheel back to supplier after talking to your c/c company.-Tell the owner you would rather let them make this right but only give then a very short time to make it right.
Give him a chance before doing this.
I am sorry you had to go thru this. If it was me I'd want to use that mallet on something other than a wheel head if you get my meaning.
When you use a credit card you have most of the rights so do not let this get you down as you will come out on top.
Mark


Yes Mark, I appreciated your thoughts. And did take them under consideration. Thank you.
My gut told me it was the wrong thing to do right after I'd done it. Perhaps that's why it took me 8 days to set it up.
This supplier was unwilling to meet the price on the VL-Lite. He said "that's a good price and I can't match it". He was willing to do a deal on a demo Skutt, but not anywhere near the price I could get from Clay-King on the VL-Lite. And now, with my experience and his demo wheels, I'll not be going that route again.

I would hate to burn this bridge, so I'm really hoping the owner and I can work things out. But there is another supplier in town that is nearer to me.

#5 Ivar

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:27 AM

So, I bought that Creative Industries Artista.
My local clay supply place had one on floor model where the owner matched the internet price.
I felt good that I was keeping my money local, all the while, appeasing the hub who tightly controls purse strings.

Well, I bought it on a Satruday. 8 days later (this last Sunday), I took her for her first spin.
Boy was I disappointed.
When I was at the supplier, I noticed a slight wobble, but the sales guy (not the owner) told me if I located the high spot, I could whack it with a mallet at home. I asked if that would make the wheel non-refundable, to which to answered "well, Mike doesn't want to take it on return if you're paying by CC, cuz we'll be out the card processing fees".
When I unpacked the wheel, I saw the date 5-25-2005. Good gravy, that wheel has been on their floor for 7 years?

Well, when I threw the first ball of clay, it was impossible to center and pulling a wall was even worse.
Now, I've emailed the owner asking him to refund my money. I do not want to pay to ship it to Speedball (Creative Industries merged with them a few years ago) for repairs. I don't want the supplier to repair it (ie, whack it with a mallet), cuz in my mind, a new wheel, "that has never been used" should perform properly right from the getgo. I did offer to pay for the credit card processing fee as a re-stock fee.

The owner hasn't returned my email after 2 days and now I'm getting nervous that he's not going to be amicable with the deal.

I don't know what to do. I just want to walk away from this wheel and get the Shimpo VL Lite I should have gotten from the start.




Ok. first of all I apologize if I will be little hursh on you, but you should never ever bought that wheel in first place. At the moment sales guy said to hammer it, you should turn your back and leave the store.

But ok...it is mistake, and now what you can do?

I do not know laws in US, but for example in Croatia if you buy something and within 15 days you spot something broken, working incorrectly or so, you have the right to return it to shop, and get refund or replace it with new item. If you see an error after those 15 days you need to send item to service. If service is not been done within 45 days, manufacturer, or general distributor needs to give you new item.

If you do not have sucsess in geting what you have payed for, there is instituton where you can call, explain your problem, and then they will make them by law to refund you all your money plus extra damage you have suffered by their action.

So, this is in Croatia, I am sure that there are some legal obligations of sellers, distributors and manufacturers in US too. So, check what are your rights, in any case do not hammer the wheel, because they will say that you have made this damage, and act ASAP. More time you wait, less chance you have to get things right.


In the future, when you are buying something new, and it has any kind of fault, DO NOT BUY IT, unless you get really big discount and you are sure you can fix the fault for little money.

#6 Karen B

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 10:50 AM



Whacking a wheel head to true it up is not anything one should ever do-EVER
As this is a new (demo) purchase and after talking to the owner (not e-mail) tell him you will pay the C/C process fees (up to 4-5%). Be polite and firm as selling a wheel with a bent shaft even as a demo is not ok.
Call the owner (not-e-mail) and offer the C/C processing fees. I looked up your post on this as I had sent you a PM on my thoughts.
I could not tell weather this supplier had the VL wheel? if they do they can sell that to you and still be happy. If its with someone else to bad for them.
You still hold all the cards as you can call your credit card company for up to 2-3 months and contest the sale as bad -mention the faulty wheel and that it was 7 years old.(no one should ever sell a wheel that need hitting with a mallet) They will refund the charge to you if you have paid it already-if not contest before paying-either way you take the wheel back to supplier after talking to your c/c company.-Tell the owner you would rather let them make this right but only give then a very short time to make it right.
Give him a chance before doing this.
I am sorry you had to go thru this. If it was me I'd want to use that mallet on something other than a wheel head if you get my meaning.
When you use a credit card you have most of the rights so do not let this get you down as you will come out on top.
Mark


Yes Mark, I appreciated your thoughts. And did take them under consideration. Thank you.
My gut told me it was the wrong thing to do right after I'd done it. Perhaps that's why it took me 8 days to set it up.
This supplier was unwilling to meet the price on the VL-Lite. He said "that's a good price and I can't match it". He was willing to do a deal on a demo Skutt, but not anywhere near the price I could get from Clay-King on the VL-Lite. And now, with my experience and his demo wheels, I'll not be going that route again.

I would hate to burn this bridge, so I'm really hoping the owner and I can work things out. But there is another supplier in town that is nearer to me.


Look, it is the owner who needs to be concerned about burning bridges, not you. Your only concern is to get what you need at the price you can afford. I imagine that Mr. Owner is playing on your gullibility. Go elsewhere if need be. Anywhere you spend your money will support someones business. Local shmocal, if they are willing to rip you off.

#7 OffCenter

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:08 PM

This is real easy. Give the retailer one chance to make it right by refunding every cent you have paid him (no silly deductions for cc processing, and he pays cost of returning wheel) or you simply do a charge back. This isn't even worth losing a wink of sleep over. As for "burning bridges", the quicker you burn the one to this retailer the better.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#8 Bobg

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:40 PM

I bought the same wheel five years ago and it wobbled also. The manufacturer said it probably wasn't seated all the way down and to tap it with a rubber mallet. Worked like a charm and haven't had a problem with it.

Bobg

#9 Dinah

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:44 PM

Offcenter's post is right. Whacking axis to set true center? Are you kidding? Sorry, but I'm with Ivar here, sorry to be incredulous and a bit scathing. Caveat emptor lives on. Unfortunately.
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#10 neilestrick

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:42 AM

I'm going to play the bad guy here, and I apologize in advance if this is too harsh: The fact that you saw the wobble and discussed it with the seller at the time of purchase essentially nullifies your option of returning it because of the wobble. Floor items are always sold as-is, no returns, whether it's a wheel from your clay supplier or a stereo at Best Buy. You inspect it before you buy it, and if you accept those flaws and take it home, you're on your own. If the seller is a nice guy, he might be willing to accept that you pay the credit card fees (may be as much as 4% plus a flat fee for the chargeback) to return it. But if not, then I hate to say it but he really has no obligation to accept the return, and you're going to have to fix it yourself. There's no way I would accept that return at my shop without the CC fees being paid. Why should the seller lose money for something that's not his fault? If this was a brand new wheel out of the box then it would be a different story, but you knew about the wobble when you bought it. Ideally, the seller should have fixed it before selling it, but since he didn't, the next step is to try to fix it yourself.

Try taking the wheel head off and see if the shaft is wobbly or if it's a problem with the fitting or the head. If it's the head or fitting, then you can try adjusting it, or get a new head. Call Speedball and see if they have any suggestions. I'm sure it's not the first time it's happened. There are no one-time issues in mass produced items. If it's the shaft, then the warranty will probably cover it. You may have to pay shipping, but it will be far less than the cost of throwing out the wheel.

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#11 Prokopp

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:06 AM

Sorry to read of your troubles, This isMelissa.
I always find it amusing when someone sells something on eBay, and it is broken. The seller always claims "can easily be fixed," which always makes me laugh; if it is so easy to fix, then why doesn't the seller fix it, then it can be sold with no trouble?
Why don't you take the wheel back to the supplier, and plead ignorance, that is, have the supplier "whack it" so that it comes correct? Apparently they have 'the touch,' so let them do it.
When you go back, be nice, and try to appear enthusiastic about the wheel, say how much you would really like to keep it, and it would be just great for you, etc. if only THEY could fix it for you. Also, make it subtly clear that THEY stand to benefit by helping you, as you will be spending hundreds , if not thousands of dollars at their store in the next few years. Otherwise, you will not be spending more money there, and could return the wheel if they can't fix it. A smart dealer doesn't want bad 'word-of mouth' advertising from refusing to help a customer.
Just be nice, and I bet you can find a solution with the supplier.

#12 Marla - Estudio M

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:33 PM




Whacking a wheel head to true it up is not anything one should ever do-EVER
As this is a new (demo) purchase and after talking to the owner (not e-mail) tell him you will pay the C/C process fees (up to 4-5%). Be polite and firm as selling a wheel with a bent shaft even as a demo is not ok.
Call the owner (not-e-mail) and offer the C/C processing fees. I looked up your post on this as I had sent you a PM on my thoughts.
I could not tell weather this supplier had the VL wheel? if they do they can sell that to you and still be happy. If its with someone else to bad for them.
You still hold all the cards as you can call your credit card company for up to 2-3 months and contest the sale as bad -mention the faulty wheel and that it was 7 years old.(no one should ever sell a wheel that need hitting with a mallet) They will refund the charge to you if you have paid it already-if not contest before paying-either way you take the wheel back to supplier after talking to your c/c company.-Tell the owner you would rather let them make this right but only give then a very short time to make it right.
Give him a chance before doing this.
I am sorry you had to go thru this. If it was me I'd want to use that mallet on something other than a wheel head if you get my meaning.
When you use a credit card you have most of the rights so do not let this get you down as you will come out on top.
Mark





Yes Mark, I appreciated your thoughts. And did take them under consideration. Thank you.
My gut told me it was the wrong thing to do right after I'd done it. Perhaps that's why it took me 8 days to set it up.
This supplier was unwilling to meet the price on the VL-Lite. He said "that's a good price and I can't match it". He was willing to do a deal on a demo Skutt, but not anywhere near the price I could get from Clay-King on the VL-Lite. And now, with my experience and his demo wheels, I'll not be going that route again.

I would hate to burn this bridge, so I'm really hoping the owner and I can work things out. But there is another supplier in town that is nearer to me.


Look, it is the owner who needs to be concerned about burning bridges, not you. Your only concern is to get what you need at the price you can afford. I imagine that Mr. Owner is playing on your gullibility. Go elsewhere if need be. Anywhere you spend your money will support someones business. Local shmocal, if they are willing to rip you off.


Don't worry anymore. Call the credit card company and stop payment that charge. This is one of the benefits of paying with a c card. Do not spend anymore time dealing with the seller. You did not get what you paid for, and they do not want to respond to you. Believe me, after the credit card starts corresponding with them, they will pay attention to your problem. Please do it very soon, and forget about trying to reason with them. Sometimes we get what we paid for, and I know it was not cheap. Good luck!!

#13 Prokopp

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:04 PM

I must agree with neilestrick - a careful reading of the OP's post will show that she DID get what she paid for. She knew the wheel had a wobble in it BEFORE it left the supplier.
The problem now is how to get a wheel that works like you want it to, and it COULD be as simple as having the supplier "whack it." Or it could involve lots of blustering, threats, and anger, which is probably the best way to proceed. If society teaches us anything, anger and angry tirades are the way to get results.
Get three or four of the biggest guys you can find, bring the wheel back to the store, and tell the owner you ARE going to return the wheel, right? Then be sure to knock over a few of his displays just to make the point that YOU are not to be messed with.
That'll teach 'im.
That's the way to get things done in America.

#14 Marcia Selsor

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:47 PM

Sorry to hear you have a problem with the wheel. My little arista is fine. maybe best to get the credit cards company involved.
Marcia

#15 ThisIsMelissa

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:01 PM

Success! Thanks to your encouragement!

I called the owner today.
<firmly, all business. "Hi, it's Melissa. I sent you an email on Sunday night"
"Oh yeah, I've been meaning to respond to that. If you're not happy with it, then yes, I'll take the wheel back"

.... conversation went on to make arrangements for its return.

So, I'm glad I took your advice and didn't let it get me even more angry.

I'm returning the wheel tomorrow. ... and yes, my gut told me not to buy it. I shouldn't have bought it.
And it turns out a Speedball Big Boss came on Craigslist today. It was never used. Perfect.... except missing part of the splashpan.... I can order one of those myself!
Price is reasonable if I can get them to take a little less to leave room for a splashpan.

Hopefully, I'll be able to pick this one up tomorrow!

#16 grayfree

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:07 PM

WOW I have had this problem with 2 speedball wheels. the first a clay boss the second and elite. Both time speedball gladly replaced the whole wheel head. With the first wheel this worked fine. Not so with the elite. After taking things apart and putting on the second wheel head it was worse and made a terrible sound. We noticed that the wheel head pulley was wobbling really bad so I called speedball back and they sent a new one of those. they have been amazing. Well this didn't solve the problem either so I am not sure what to try next. Any ideas????

#17 OffCenter

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:48 PM

WOW I have had this problem with 2 speedball wheels. the first a clay boss the second and elite. Both time speedball gladly replaced the whole wheel head. With the first wheel this worked fine. Not so with the elite. After taking things apart and putting on the second wheel head it was worse and made a terrible sound. We noticed that the wheel head pulley was wobbling really bad so I called speedball back and they sent a new one of those. they have been amazing. Well this didn't solve the problem either so I am not sure what to try next. Any ideas????


Perhaps it is time to consider buying a wheel from another company.

Jim
E pur si muove.

"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.

#18 MichaelP

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:51 PM

I'm glad everything went smoothly as it should be. I just wanted to tell you that the salesman is not only an idiot if he suggested to correct SIDE wobble with a mallet (was it a side-to-side wobbling or up and down one?), but he's also a liar. Why would you need to compensate them for the CC fees? If you return goods for a full refund, CC is not supposed to charge the fees (or should reimburse them to the merchant).

#19 neilestrick

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:52 AM

I'm glad everything went smoothly as it should be. I just wanted to tell you that the salesman is not only an idiot if he suggested to correct SIDE wobble with a mallet (was it a side-to-side wobbling or up and down one?), but he's also a liar. Why would you need to compensate them for the CC fees? If you return goods for a full refund, CC is not supposed to charge the fees (or should reimburse them to the merchant).


Getting your money back on a credit card purchase can happen three different ways:
1. Void- the transaction is cancelled before the banks actually move the money. This has to happen the day of the transaction before the day's transactions are batched out. No fees are charged to the vendor.
2. Credit/Refund- the customer is given a refund by the merchant the next day or later. Merchant pays the processing fee (generally 3-4%).
3. Chargeback- the money is given back to the customer after they dispute the charges. This is typically done when fraudulent charges appear on someone's card, or they received a bad product and are unable to resolve the issue. The customer issues a complaint the bank that issued the credit card, who refunds their money and then tries to get the money back from the credit card processing company used by the merchant, who notifies the merchant. The merchant can dispute the chargeback. If the chargeback goes through, the merchant pays a fee ($20 in my case), plus loses the 4% processing they paid from the original transaction.

That's why you should pay the credit card fees if you return something you knew was damaged in the first place. It was sold with full disclosure, so the merchant shouldn't be punished for it.

Neil Estrick
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L&L Kilns Distributor
Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
www.neilestrickgallery.com

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