robinelise66 Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 I have just purchased a new L&L kiln E-18t with the quad coils (3.9 cf) My old kiln was a vulcan with a kiln sitter and switches (3.2 cf) The new unit heats up my entire garage verses very little heat radiation of my old one when used at the same settings. Is it normal for these kilns to radiate this much heat externally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 Yes. Do they have different thickness of bricks? A kiln with 3 inch bricks or "double" insulation will shed a lot less heat than a 2.5 inch kiln. But every kiln will shed heat eventually, just very slowly. My kiln in the driveway was hot enough to melt the snow on my carport roof when it was 20 degrees outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinelise66 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 Yikes! Yes, they offer 3" but I bought the 2.5" since that is what was in my Vulcan and the heat radiation was minimal. This one puts off enough heat that I don't think I'll be able to work on the days I fire!. LOL Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 You can buy a hood to go over it and suck out the hot air. Bonus will be it sucks out all the bad stuff too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 I think the E18 has a thinner lid than the sides. We were just checking this stuff with our infrared cameras and noted a good percentage of the loss is from the lid. Insulating the lid probably would help - although The lid itself needs to move and flex on its own so folks stacking extra brick on top are usually greeted with lid failure. Our immediate thought was to just lay a piece of high temp batt insul on top or a secondary thought was to paint just the underside of the lid with ITC 100 and check the results. if and when we get to it I will publish our results. Heck if we reduce this by any real percentage it probably would benefit everyone that pays for their own firings and be better for the planet as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Bill Kielb said: I think the E18 has a thinner lid than the sides. We were just checking this stuff with our infrared cameras and noted a good percentage of the loss is from the lid. Insulating the lid probably would help - although The lid itself needs to move and flex on its own so folks stacking extra brick on top are usually greeted with lid failure. Our immediate thought was to just lay a piece of high temp batt insul on top or a secondary thought was to paint just the underside of the lid with ITC 100 and check the results. if and when we get to it I will publish our results. Heck if we reduce this by any real percentage it probably would benefit everyone that pays for their own firings and be better for the planet as well. All lids are about 1/16" thinner than the side walls because the lids are sanded smooth. That's true for most brands. But that's not enough to account for a really noticeable difference in the amount of heat coming off a kiln. It's probably just a case of different types of bricks. Not all K23 are the same density, and therefore will insulate differently. A lighter, less dense brick will insulate better, but will not be as durable. Bricks are chosen based on max temp rating, insulating ability, durability, and price. Kiln companies find a balance that they feel is correct for their products. Putting fiber blanket on the lid will help, but there's a real safety issue with moving fiber around. A piece of durable rigid fiber board may be a better solution. Coatings can help, but they tend to flake off eventually. I rebuilt my big kiln (22 cubic foot top loader) with a 4 1/2" thick lid, which made a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitchmss Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 13 hours ago, Bill Kielb said: ITC 100 Worth the $ for the ITC. Extended the life of our IFB kiln to 650 firings. Goes to cone 12 on $60 of propane in 8 hours with a single wall construction + 2" of fiber. Amazing coating! Apparently the designed of ITC used to paint a thick 1/2" layer onto plywood and fire a plywood kiln to cone 10 without burning the wood....never seen this myself, but heard it from a many a folk....maybe just talk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 1 hour ago, hitchmss said: Worth the $ for the ITC. Extended the life of our IFB kiln to 650 firings. Goes to cone 12 on $60 of propane in 8 hours with a single wall construction + 2" of fiber. Amazing coating! Apparently the designed of ITC used to paint a thick 1/2" layer onto plywood and fire a plywood kiln to cone 10 without burning the wood....never seen this myself, but heard it from a many a folk....maybe just talk... Used it on the soda kiln and am very satisfied with it. Common in the kiln indusry, not necessarily ceramics, but has proven a strong performer. How good? When I get some time we will see. I have the flir and the ITC so I should be able to conjure up a reasonable test that measurably shows the difference. Will post it somewhere where all can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Found a few minutes of time this evening and a kiln at 2000 degrees so I figured I would do a little picture taking and share the results. Turns out a rough guess on a per unit area basis indicates nearly 90% more energy is transmitted through the top. might create some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinelise66 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Wow! Thank you so much for all of the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Bridge Pottery Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Shiny metals emit IR inefficiently. You can see it reflecting inside the electrical box, if you got the right angle you could probably see yourself. Need something with a high emissivity on there to see how hot it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Stupid question here, but couldn't you lay aluminum foil with the shiny side down on top of the lid and reflect the heat back in towards the kiln? It works in homes with attic reflectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, High Bridge Pottery said: Shiny metals emit IR inefficiently. You can see it reflecting inside the electrical box, if you got the right angle you could probably see yourself. Need something with a high emissivity on there to see how hot it really is. Yeah, yeah, next time we will put surface temp sensors. Not really, just recalibrate for the emissivity. I also stuck my hand on the side - no burns! Also the handle temp in the picture is affected by the screw embedments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Kielb Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, liambesaw said: Stupid question here, but couldn't you lay aluminum foil with the shiny side down on top of the lid and reflect the heat back in towards the kiln? It works in homes with attic reflectors. Maybe, we would be reflecting back into the brick but it would have an effect. Maybe we will have to test just for fun. (Of course again we will recalibrate for emissivity) The ITC 100 has proven effective though on many kilns. I actually use It in the soda to protect the IFB and use it on the ceiling of the reduction kiln since that thing is pretty leaky. They traditionally do a cone ten reduction fire in Just over eight hours so it definitely has reduced the losses. I had the extra ITC after converting the soda so I never established a baseline. We might have to compare with Aluminum foil when time permits just for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, Bill Kielb said: Maybe, we would be reflecting back into the brick but it would have an effect. Maybe we will have to test just for fun. (Of course again we will recalibrate for emissivity) The ITC 100 has proven effective though on many kilns. I actually use It in the soda to protect the IFB and use it on the ceiling of the reduction kiln since that thing is pretty leaky. They traditionally do a cone ten reduction fire in Just over eight hours so it definitely has reduced the losses. I had the extra ITC after converting the soda so I never established a baseline. We might have to compare with Aluminum foil when time permits just for fun. I used aluminum flashing on my fiber kiln and the difference was amazing. Probably doesn't do much for normal kilns seeing as how they already have steel girding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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