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Karen B

Shimpo Pugmill Used As Extruder

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 I am considering paying North Star Equipment a lot of money to make a custom extrusion plate  for my Shimpo NRA-04 pug mill. Prob well over $100+.  What I need is a die to make a simple hollow form so I can easily extrude 100+ tubes for glaze testing. I want a tubular form so I can see the difference between the glaze on the inside of a form and the outside of a form. (In case you were wondering.)  

They offer plastic and metal. It would have the three screw holes as you can see in the picture below with sinkholes for the screws.

Looking online, I see that Shimpo has a couple of dies they offer, but none of them fit my needs.

Has anyone done this? Has anyone worked with this company? Do you think that sounds too pricey?

I’m adding a few pictures of my pug mill. (Also wanted to show off my modification of the lever handle which I I turned to the side so I could pull it easier.)

Thank you!

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Edited by Karen B
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It's expensive, but that seems like a reasonable price for a custom piece that will go onto a piece of equipment they didn't make. There are a lot of potential problems, so they're probably pricing it really high because they don't really want to do it.

How big are these tubes? The tubes I make for tiles are only 1 1/4", and I use my wall mounted extruder to make them. The only problem I can see with your setup is making sure you feed the clay into the pugger slowly enough that it doesn't back up or cause other issues with pushing the clay through such a small opening. Have you talked to Shimpo to make sure it will work?

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Thanks for your take Neil. I have not talked to Shimpo. I will do that.  The tube would be 2.5" and prob 3/8th wall.  I'm figuring it to be as big as I can to reduce the pressure.  The opening of the pugmill is 3 6/8" width.

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21 minutes ago, Karen B said:

The tube would be 2.5" and prob 3/8th wall.  I'm figuring it to be as big as I can to reduce the pressure.  The opening of the pugmill is 3 6/8" width.

It's going to be tricky getting a 2 1/2" tube from an opening of 3 6/8". Leaves you with 1 1/4" total space for the bridge, divide that by 2 and you have less than 3/4" on either side of the tube. If you can use a smaller size tube then perhaps a pre-made extruder die would work, could drill holes to match the holes in the end of your pugger then bolt it on, bridge would have to fit inside the pugger. Something like this. ($15- from Bailey) If you could make your own bridge so it's closer to the outside wall of the tube, theirs would be too wide to fit in your 3 6/8" opening. 

 image.png.b5de06295da48ca1b11409f39d0d1fd4.png

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When I bought my northstar wall mounted extruder it came with a hollow circle die as part of the die kit; one "load" of the hopper will yield about 3' of 1.25" diameter, approx 5/16" wall thickness. Might take a little more effort with the wall mount (if you have one), but it would be cheaper (esp if you have the dies too).

If you have any fabrication experience it'd be quite easy to make the die you want, and would cost you very little. The images attached are a die I made for the cost of about $3, and is made for  wall mount extruder. You could easily make the same product for your mill; just would need to get the holes in your die plate roughly aligned to the machined holes in your nozzle; close enough and use washers/bolts to secure. I used a scrap piece of alum for the plate, old threaded bolts, scrap flat stock, and scrap rod to make the "shape" portion of the die. Took very little time too; jewelers saw/files to cut out die, welded em up.

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Thanks Min for that insight. I called Shimpo and asked if I could get a blank die with just the screw holes drilled. They will call Japan and get back to me. She was concerned that the pressure might ruin the machine. I had looked at the die they sell and the whole plate is coverd with shapes. I asked her if the clay didn't heal back after going thru their die. She said it did stick together but was possible to peel apart. . . 

Thanks Hitchmss, love what you made, but I only do woodworking on the side, no tools or experience in metal. Thanks for the pics. I understand better what I am dealing with.  I'm not sure why you have the 3 bars behind the hole. Will those make it a hollow form?  As you can see, I really have no experience with extrusion. 

Thanks Mark.

 

 

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Karen, I've clamped a Peter Pugger handle die onto the end of my Bailey pugger. I left all the handle shapes unblocked so the actual area of restricted clay flow is minimal. You could do the same idea with a tube, make some holes around it to relieve some of the pressure, toss the coil extrusions. You can make a bridge for the die with U bolts and nuts, three would probably be enough. If you can drill holes in a premade die you could make it fit your pugger quite easily. 3 U bolts, 6 nuts, 3 lock washers for the die then 3 bolts, 3 nuts, 3 lock washers to bolt the die to the pugger. U bolts would have to be short enough to not come anywhere close to the end of the auger but long enough that the clay can heal over after passing around the ends of them. Might be easier using an oval rather than a round extrusion, more room for the bridge.

Not my die but the idea of the U bolts is to make the bridge.

image.png.7278565f92e6cd9410e6d0591eb36ae6.png

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karen,   i know you are using a shimpo pugmill.   if you talk to jim bailey about doing this, he will give you good advice about its feasibility.    he does use his pugmills to extrude but only a tile shape.   do not be afraid of asking, it is a reasonable question and there are lots of considerations.  

i have a wall mounted round extruder and learned early that you must provide relief for the forces on the clay.  you cannot put a single 1/2 in hole in the middle of a die and expect to be able to push the clay through it easily.   there should be more than one hole.   maybe something like that might prevent you from doing this the way you plan.

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My 4 inch wall mounted extruded has all the various dues for all size hollow extrusions you could mount them to a plate with the holes drilled for your shimpo if they give you the green light on the restrictions you can buy these thru various extruded companies like Scott Creek maybe Brent as well??

I do know Peter pluggers can be restricted without harm please let us know what Shimpo Japan says so we all know

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On 2/15/2019 at 12:53 PM, Min said:

Karen, I've clamped a Peter Pugger handle die onto the end of my Bailey pugger. I left all the handle shapes unblocked so the actual area of restricted clay flow is minimal. You could do the same idea with a tube, make some holes around it to relieve some of the pressure, toss the coil extrusions. You can make a bridge for the die with U bolts and nuts, three would probably be enough. If you can drill holes in a premade die you could make it fit your pugger quite easily. 3 U bolts, 6 nuts, 3 lock washers for the die then 3 bolts, 3 nuts, 3 lock washers to bolt the die to the pugger. U bolts would have to be short enough to not come anywhere close to the end of the auger but long enough that the clay can heal over after passing around the ends of them. Might be easier using an oval rather than a round extrusion, more room for the bridge.

Not my die but the idea of the U bolts is to make the bridge.

image.png.7278565f92e6cd9410e6d0591eb36ae6.png

 The augers stops well behind the exit opening.  So with the u bolts, I wouldn't need a bridge. Is that correct?

Thanks Min. 

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Old Lady, thanks for the suggestion. I will call Jim Bailey on Monday. 

Mark C, I will check out the PPugger Dies, Thanks

Neil, yes, I did look at some, but at this point, I'd rather use what I have. 

Also, thanks all for the heads up about the pressure issue, and it is an issue according the Shimpo tech person, Their dies are almost all open.

I am thinking that since I would be screwing the die into the exit, I could put a small nut under the screws so clay could spew out the sides of the die.  And maybe making the circle an oval will also  leave room to drill  holes around it for pressure release. What do you think?

I will let you know what comes back from Shimpo Japan. 

 

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