oldlady Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 maybe i should just stay silent about something that appears to be happening. my business consultant background and general nosiness doesn't let me, though. if you look at ebay today, january 15, 2019, you might see ads from china selling "pottery wheel machines", their words, not mine. they are painted bright colors and the descriptions are badly translated into english. the prices are very low and might lead people to think they are bargains. maybe they are to experienced people but i think new potters can be easily mislead into thinking that purchasing them is enough and they must come with instructions so that should be all they need. perhaps kilns are also being sold this way. could that be the source of the misinformation that has lead to all the really poor questions that have popped up here in the last month or so? if you read the original questions carefully instead of assuming the poster knows more than the question implies, you might detect a total lack of understanding of the processes needed to make pots. does anyone else see this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just checked them out. Wonder if they work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 They don't weigh much, only 35 pounds, so the motor can't be all that large. Going by a watts to horsepower conversion, they're almost 1/2hp, but if the motor is as tiny as the weight indicates, it will run hot and won't last very long. They're all over Amazon, too. THIS ONE shows Shimpo and Skutt wheels in its photos of people making pots! None of them show any visible cord grips or strain relief on the pedal and power cords, which would not be safe, but I suppose they could be mounted inside where they're not visible. One of them doesn't even show the peadl i all its photos. THIS PAGE is a problem. I'm tempted to buy one just to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 They look like a mini rk10, if I could afford being a guinea pig I'd get one to see how bad they are. I saw a post somewhere saying they were more like a toy than a real one. Good luck ordering parts when they break too I'm guessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitchmss Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I noticed some of the listings for these wheels showed brents and other reputable brands being used in a studio and not theirs. I like harbor freight tools for some things, but if Im going to use it more than a few times, you get what you pay for. Hopefully those who are serious about making an investment, both physically and financially, will do some research and not buy this junk, and I agree with @neilestrick that these wont last with any real use. It would also be interesting to see just how cruddily they are machined/assembled. Id have to imagine pretty poorly. Ive bought stuff from China that was wonderful, and other stuff that made me wonder if they even thought it through before they made a million of them. The bigger issue is those who just google, and then think that ALL wheels must be this cheap. I agree with you @oldlady that it muddies the water and makes our lives more difficult. I have not seen kilns being sold this way, but it wouldnt surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Soon enough people will be asking HERE how to fix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I found someone on Amazon who posted what seems to be a legit review, and I commented on his review and asked if he'd be willing to open up his wheel and post pictures. I'm not holding my breath, but I though it'd be worth a try. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll do it. I'm hope they don't start selling cheap kilns. If they do, I'm sure they will have all sorts of problems with electrical service differences and element longevity, and no customer service whatsoever. They're already selling cheap thermocouples and elements on eBay, but they're all clearly poor quality, very thin wire. There have got to be some good kilns in China, though, and I'm honestly surprised that we haven't seen one marketed in the US yet. I've got to think they could build them cheaper on China, and they would just need a distributor who could warehouse kiln bodies for them, and could install elements and wiring depending on what the buyer needed for the voltage and phase. What Mark said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, neilestrick said: I found someone on Amazon who posted what seems to be a legit review, and I commented on his review and asked if he'd be willing to open up his wheel and post pictures. I'm not holding my breath, but I though it'd be worth a try. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll do it. I'm hope they don't start selling cheap kilns. If they do, I'm sure they will have all sorts of problems with electrical service differences and element longevity, and no customer service whatsoever. They're already selling cheap thermocouples and elements on eBay, but they're all clearly poor quality, very thin wire. There have got to be some good kilns in China, though, and I'm honestly surprised that we haven't seen one marketed in the US yet. I've got to think they could build them cheaper on China, and they would just need a distributor who could warehouse kiln bodies for them, and could install elements and wiring depending on what the buyer needed for the voltage and phase. What Mark said. sounds like your next business venture is taking shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, Stephen said: sounds like your next business venture is taking shape. HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 just checked the one model ($230) that had 10 reviews. Made me feel bad as I think most of them were gifts. At $230 retail that means this wheel had to leave the factory boxed and ready for shipping for about $50-$60 in cost so it defies logic that is is anything of value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, neilestrick said: I found someone on Amazon who posted what seems to be a legit review, and I commented on his review and asked if he'd be willing to open up his wheel and post pictures. I'm not holding my breath, but I though it'd be worth a try. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll do it. I'm hope they don't start selling cheap kilns. If they do, I'm sure they will have all sorts of problems with electrical service differences and element longevity, and no customer service whatsoever. They're already selling cheap thermocouples and elements on eBay, but they're all clearly poor quality, very thin wire. There have got to be some good kilns in China, though, and I'm honestly surprised that we haven't seen one marketed in the US yet. I've got to think they could build them cheaper on China, and they would just need a distributor who could warehouse kiln bodies for them, and could install elements and wiring depending on what the buyer needed for the voltage and phase. What Mark said. I mean... Kilns can be made pretty cheap here in the USA too, they're not exactly complicated machinery. I have to assume a decent chunk of the cost is insurance, like with ladders. I dont even know if getting IFBs shipped here from China would make them all that more cheap, maybe the bands would be cheaper, but whats the most expensive part of a kiln for the manufacturer? Probably digital controller if I had to guess, and it's starting to look like raspberry pi style controllers could make that cost a lot lower too. Pretty interesting, but on a wheel like this I doubt that DC motor can handle much torque.. not at this price point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark C. Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 They look like toys to me.Cheap toys at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 How about this one, 4.5cm wheelhead. That's not as wide as the short side on a business card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chilly said: How about this one, 4.5cm wheelhead. That's not as wide as the short side on a business card. 1500 rpm, might be hard to maintain a cylinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1500rpm is probably the motor speed, but we need wheel head speed. A lot of these direct-from-China products have poorly written descriptions, or give the false information (not necessarily on purpose), inaccurate measurement conversions, etc. I think a lot just gets messed up in translation. It makes it tough to know what you're buying. Yet more reasons to not buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Min Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Well OldLady you were a day late in posting this, I just ordered a wheel yesterday, $1546 Canadian. To think I could have bought 4 of them for the same price! There is a picture of one with the base plate off on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Nice find @Min !!! There's a lot of plastic in there. I give that foot pedal assembly about a week before it breaks. And one tiny motor. Plus, there's no cover plate to keep dust out of the workings. Zip ties? Really? It's worse than I imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yep $50 worth of cheap parts, if that. The problem with this stuff is that people don't know any better and buy one for a spouse or parent and just waste their money and the person gets a piece of crap wheel for a present and they are in an awkward situation or worst yet tries to learn to throw on this piece of crap. One of the reasons I am always recommending the Clay Boss to beginners is that at $600 its a real potters wheel that really will last a lifetime of hobby use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Min said: Well OldLady you were a day late in posting this, I just ordered a wheel yesterday, $1546 Canadian. To think I could have bought 4 of them for the same price! There is a picture of one with the base plate off on this site. Oh wow that's sad. I think the toy wheels probably have better quality. And by the looks of it, there is no bottom plate, I don't see anywhere it would screw in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 @liambesaw I was thinking maybe the feet held the bottom plate in place. But there's no lip for it to sit into, and it's not visible from the outside on the other photos, so I think there really isn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitchmss Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 zip ties, and what looks like wire nuts. With no bottom plate, and no water tight connections, I wonder how long until water gets splashed on the electricals and fries itself...or the user. Im surprised that the body (looks to be) made of metal, albeit thin gauge, but they took the time to powder coat/paint the underside. Its amazing how they can come close on some aspects to making something decent, but really screw it up overall. Two examples of the same lack of engineering and attention to detail comes to mind; I used to work for a sculptor and we made mannequins for the fashion industry and busts/models for museums. The chinese would regularly buy our mannequins and copy them to sell; we'd 3D scan our prototypes for our client's proprietary designs. When the chinese would make them, they would do a pretty good job of copying them, but they would mess up on the joints (knees, elbows, fingers, etc) and it would look like the figure took a tumble off a train. Also bought a chinese made sausage stuffer recently; funny enough, they used great materials to make the machine, but just a stupid lack of engineering went into making the machine. I know they spent at least $50 for the materials (stainless isnt cheap), but the lack of a properly designed $15 part made the whole thing unusable. Its obvious they are more interested in cranking _____ out, and selling massive amounts of units for cheap, which will all have very short lives, rather than spend another 20% in costs and make something that will last a long time. Makes no sense to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabby Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I am pretty sure one of my daughters, who are now 29 and 32, had a toy potters wheel as a child. I can see they are still sold on Amazon for $25-$50. They are always brightly colored plastic. I don't think they were for use with real clay but maybe something that looked like clay. The problem is that the photos used to advertise these products show vessels that could not have been made on these toy wheels. In my childhood, which means when quite a few people here were kids also, there were toy ovens and rock tumblers and all sorts of kid versions of real appliances that kind of worked temporarily. They didn't have any warranty to work more than a few times. I never owned these gadgets but remember them to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilestrick Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 30 minutes ago, hitchmss said: zip ties, and what looks like wire nuts. With no bottom plate, and no water tight connections, I wonder how long until water gets splashed on the electricals and fries itself...or the user. Im surprised that the body (looks to be) made of metal, albeit thin gauge, but they took the time to powder coat/paint the underside. Its amazing how they can come close on some aspects to making something decent, but really screw it up overall. Two examples of the same lack of engineering and attention to detail comes to mind; I used to work for a sculptor and we made mannequins for the fashion industry and busts/models for museums. The chinese would regularly buy our mannequins and copy them to sell; we'd 3D scan our prototypes for our client's proprietary designs. When the chinese would make them, they would do a pretty good job of copying them, but they would mess up on the joints (knees, elbows, fingers, etc) and it would look like the figure took a tumble off a train. Also bought a chinese made sausage stuffer recently; funny enough, they used great materials to make the machine, but just a stupid lack of engineering went into making the machine. I know they spent at least $50 for the materials (stainless isnt cheap), but the lack of a properly designed $15 part made the whole thing unusable. Its obvious they are more interested in cranking _____ out, and selling massive amounts of units for cheap, which will all have very short lives, rather than spend another 20% in costs and make something that will last a long time. Makes no sense to me... I'm sure they could make something as good as a $1000 US-made wheel and bring it to market for $600 if they put some effort into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liambesaw Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, neilestrick said: I'm sure they could make something as good as a $1000 US-made wheel and bring it to market for $600 if they put some effort into it. Isn't that what the clay boss is? Pretty sure that's a cheap Chinese wheel done somewhat right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitchmss Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, neilestrick said: if they put some effort into it. Wouldnt take much effort either; theres no need to reinvent the wheel (pun both un & in tended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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